So is there any chance of this happening? Cos I'm getting pretty tired of going to the streets and opening threads with a clearly ambiguous title, only to find 2,000 pointless words about feeding a cat, with absolutely no mention of mafia - or any opportunity for someone else to join in the roleplay.

Sure, this sorta stuff is well written and clearly the author has spent some time creating it, but like most people who have commented - I'm more interested in current debates, discussions and politics. Wading through the stuff that is clearly designed to garner rewards becomes very tiresome. It almost feels like we're being tricked into boosting someone else's vision.

And to answer Identity's point, I would just leave what's already on the streets and concentrate on going forward. Sooner or later all the pointless monologues will get buried, and anything that continues down the same vein after the streets have been split can be highlighted and then moved by an HDO/Admin.

Especially if in the end it shows to be plagiarism like Sherlock did, @Enjorlas?

I'm very much in favour of this. It's definitely an issue that in character announcements and debates get buried under stories within a matter of hours and can easily be missed.

This is a separate issue and I don't want to derail @Saehrimnir 's great thread, but I personally have never seen another context in which a single person writing a story about their own character(s) with no input from anyone else is considered role playing. 

pokes Harlow to show possible improvements

Oh.. +1 on this one for me!

This gets a +1 from me. I feel like it would have many pro's to it. It would just create a clear divide between the current news/debates and give the writers/storytellers their own home to create their work.

+1.  I know, weird right? 

Here's the thing... we already have this a split (two different kinds really and I'm going to talk about both!)  :)

SOLUTION #1 - OOC IS OOC

Back when I first joined MR I was super confused you see... here's why:  

role-play

 verb

\ ˈrōl-ˌplā  , -ˈplā\

role-played; role-playing; role-plays

Definition of role-play

 

transitive verb

1: to act out the role of

2: to represent in actionstudents were asked to role-play the thoughts and feelings of each character

-Miriam Webster

When I went to the streets and found people trying to write discussions about the mechanics, history, and traditions of the game as if they were their characters speaking about a game they didn't realize their whole lives were trapped inside of ... I was confused as fuck.

The board is called "100% 1930s Role Play" which to me meant it was a place for us to tell the stories about the lives and times crimes of our characters.  These might be told by open scenes where people could join us for drinks at a bar and we might talk about the events of the day... or it might be a 3rd person POV of events as they happen in the characters lives, or maybe its a place where you get to see a small flashback into the story of how the character became the person they are... etc.

I suggested that maybe instead of us always having to carefully word our discussions to ensure that we don't accidentally speak as a player which let's face it here's an example - Harlow the character has zero opinion about RP Reviews because in theory when someone is writing a story showing you a private moment of their life ... that shit isn't seen by anyone who isn't present during the event so she shouldn't know what happened there unless I have a way to have learned it in character.  I, DeAnna the player, love the reviews and find them hilarious - I hope they keep getting written because I've enjoyed reading them. 

In-Character:  Speaking as my character with only the knowledge my character has acquired in story with no awareness that the lives of my character takes place within a game.

Out-Of-Character:  Speaking as a player about the events of the game in which the story takes place.

Pretending you have knowledge that your character can't really have in-story is also referred to as meta-gaming and in most RP communities is an offense right up there with making mary-sue characters.  It's at least considered rude and generally considered cheating.  Sure it's okay for you the player to enjoy the stories shared by others but as your character, unless you were there, you shouldn't have knowledge of the actions of other characters anymore than I know what my neighbor is doing in his house right now (probably making Meth.)  

In-character that maybe announcements, debates/discussions about current events & proper protocol/tradition of making made men - naming godfathers - picking pockets and other game mechanics (other non-story based posts - ie: those where we're looking into the life and crimes of the characters we play) might better belong on a board specifically for that -- https://mafiareturns.com/comm/forum/ooc/

This Forum Is For Non RP Talk About The Game (AKA OOC)

To me this board seems the logical place for us to announce what crews are being protected and for how long, to debate/discuss whether or not current events in the game (that sometimes have NOTHING to do with the 'lives and crimes' of the characters) are up to the standards of days past, etc.

After hearing why people didn't like the idea, I think it pretty much came down to the streets we the place to be seen and counted for being a VIP and while not incentivized back in the day when I first joined MR ... it still was a point of pride people held to.  They wanted to be known as someone who contributed to discussions and why shouldn't they be?!?

Solution #1:   The OOC board is used for all non-role-play scenes going forward as perhaps it should have been all along -AND- so that people who like discussion about the game and about current events are treated fairly it should also be counted for VIP points so no one feels their chosen form of discussion is excluded.

SOLUTION #2 - FIX BUSINESS DISTRICT RP

You want to know why the hell I post in the streets instead of the business districts?  Here's my reasons (and SURPRISE none of them are fucking credit-related)

1. Stories don't usually take place in a single location.  If I want to write a heist with someone there is usually at least three places that story might take place including a hideout to make plans in, the car we travel in, and the location we steal from.  It can also take place in a few others but that's a good example.  Now I could have three business locations made for that RP but if you wanted to follow the story for that, how would you do it?  You the reader I mean?  Let's say you accidentally find the start of it in a cafe where I and a few other players talk about the place we want to rob... now you need to find out where we went next.  You need to scour the other business threads and read through other people's rp JUST to figure out where the hell we are next!  And then read that... and oops, we went somewhere else... now where the fuck are we?  And god forbid you find them out of order and find the resolution to the heist first, then the set up, and then the car ride to the location. 
   
   FAR BETTER SOLUTION AS THINGS STAND:  tell the whole tale in one thread in the damn streets.
    
2. A story about afternoon tea with a friend to plan a crime shouldn't take two weeks to complete.  Thanks to the need to fly for hustle, drug dealing and training a gun ... a big scene (as I tend to write) would take WEEKS if not months to complete with other players.  Around here we're lucky if I eek out a month on a character.  No one lives long enough around here to wait on telling their stories.  So the business district fucking SUCKS to post on.  I hate it.  Literally.  I dislike writing a post in Philly knowing that my writing partner is stuck in Seattle for the next 12 hours and if I want to write with him/her I need to wait for them to fly in and then wait for them to have time to reply and then they have to wait on me and if I should need to fly for some reason... he's stuck waiting and the story goes nowhere and isn't fun. 
   
   FAR BETTER SOLUTION AS THINGS STAND:  tell the story in the streets so we can post to it whenever AND where ever we happen to be.
    

Solution #2:  Change nothing else really... remove the flight issue and I will HAPPILY move every story I write to the Business Districts.  I seriously don't care about the streets for any other reason than they make my life more convenient (in that I can post when/where I like and am able) and that at this moment in time it felt wrong to write stories in the BD instead of posting new business... but that will change if we want it.  It's not that big of a deal.  Seriously.  I just don't want to be told I can ONLY tell stories in the BD if things remain as they are. 

Look, I agree there is a problem.  It's hard to find what you're looking for on the streets right now and I can see why that would bother you.  I'm not wanting to ruin your good time so I can support making changes.  

However, I'm literally here to write, first and foremost.  It's why I stayed at MR when I left every other site like it that I joined two years ago.  I enjoyed writing here and was WARMLY welcomed back in the day when I started bringing my stories to the streets.  And my way of enjoying this game isn't any more or less important than yours.  So... I just ask that you leave me to it.  If you want my stories out of the way of your discussions about the game mechanics, game ethics, and current events - that's fine.  But let's find a way to do it that doesn't feel like role-players are second-class citizens being asked to move to the back of the bus.

Gets a huge +1 from me due to the recent back and forth, I'd say this is the best possible action going forward, splitting the streets is the best thing to do. 

Additional note - YES we could write in BD and then move it to the BD but sometimes I start a story and leave it open for people to join.  If we do all our writing of stories in BD for the sake of convenience then it closes the door on new people interacting with us and that's just not good either.

Correction  "YES we could write in BD ..."  should have read "YES we could write in BA ..."  God I need more coffee.

Harlow, I don't think many people are upset with threads where people are actively interacting with other characters in a way that befits their character within the confines of the game. 

I get that.  But how do you filter out punishing those who are writing stories you respect while also dealing with the ones you don't?  

I get where you're coming front.  And I think that you support the sort of stories that I tell.  We're on a page but trust me when I say there are people who DON'T appreciate my contributions and if we change things because of what you don't like... why not for what they don't like... where's the line?

Some people don't gamble.  Some do.

Some people level guns, some don't.

Some people write... some don't.

If finding the handful of announcements and discussions in the streets because of a large number of stories is an actual problem then that should be addressed.  I want to fix that issue.  That is an actual problem and I think it's one that can be addressed.  The other stuff, that might just be a matter of opinions and taste.  So long as someone isn't plagiarizing then maybe it's shouldn't be up to us to tell people what is good story and and isn't... at least not by removing their rewards for it.  Feel free to continue your reviews they are a fucking hoot (and if I'm ever reviewed I'll try to wear it like a god damn badge of honor ala people being parodied by Weird Al!)

*shrug*

It's like any family - us writers - you got the normal family members you don't mind so much and sometimes you got that weird aunt who wears crazy hats, has 5000 cats and thinks she's a spiritual vampire and only comes out of her house for craft fairs and renfests.  *shrug*  But they're still you're family and when someone is wanting to trample their right to be unique, and happy (and so long as their actions aren't hurting anyone) you come out to stand with them.

This is me... protecting my rights and standing with my weird Aunts all over and throughout the history of MR.  That's all. And if I can help you get what you need to enjoy the site more ... well, let's do that too!

I'm not sure a Cul-de-Sacs forum is the answer - why not a theatre district?  These people are telling stories and entertaining people?

I think my issue with that idea is that I don't do it to entertain.  I mean I'm not standing on a street corner as Harlow telling the stories of her life (though we treat it that way when we talk about it in the streets because there is no in-character way to talk about roleplaying without going full ooc or meta) I'm just writing what happens in her life.  

*shrug*

Cul-de-sacs I guess was coined as an idea that "life takes place there" ???  Still feels odd to me.  The streets are designated for role-playing so I don't really know why we're talking about pulling role-play out of them rather than discussing pulling discussions out of the space that rp happens?  Seems a touch backward to me.

But if the insistence is "we've always done it this way" or "this is how I rp!" then I can only reply with the suggestion about removing travel restrictions on the business districts as a possible way to help everyone get what they want.

I personally feel that RP's, whether open or not, should be locked down to the business districts, as they are intended. If you're hitting the casinos in Vegas for example, why would that be a street post as opposed to a business? The streets should be for specific things, such as Announcements, Newspapers (no the newest issue of Tribune doesn't count), Discussions, Debates. Things that harbor meaning. It feels like since the implementation of VIP the streets have been flooded with meaningless drivel. Yes, stories are interesting, but they have no true place in the streets.

My understanding is that some of the issue with this is people not wanting to fly back to a city to finish a RP, which is quite silly imo. If you're attending a restaurant in Philly, maybe you shouldn't fly to Detroit because the heroin is a little better. That's not a broken game mechanic, that's on the role player. For all we know the streets could be lively with great debates, but who the hell can find them between the drivel and countless stories?

For that matter, to boost VIP I see a lot of "this was good", "great story", etc. Why is this allowed?

Maybe I'm just an old man and miss the old days when this shit would have been moved to ooc or business districts.

I am for separating the street forum into two categories -- one for announcements, debates, discussions, etc. & one for Storytelling and the likes -- in which both are treated equally as far as the mechanics go (VIP/Vision/Access regardless of location, etc)

Personally, I would like to take a moment and thank all those that have actually participated in this thread with a mind-set to create a workable solution that was good for everybody.  It shows a mutual respect for each other and I found it encouraging.   Things for being better!

When people say they should be treated equally, do they mean they are in it purely for the credits, then?

I dont feel you can demand anything from it; if the Gods decide to reward efforts, thats up to them.

Apparently it motivates people, which is good, but it should not be about the rewards really. 

I think the point is equality ... if there are no rewards for one, then no rewards for the other too.  That would also be 'equal.'

I would hope that no one would want to see RP made more important than discussions on the site (or vice versa.)  I mean, how would you feel if Squishy pulled stories out of the streets and then ONLY gave credits to posters in the BD? 

I dare not assume what Squishy would or wouldn't do but I certainly don't want to see the amount of outrage that would come from those who aren't fans of stories if he came out and said: "Sure I'll separate the two... but only roleplayers are getting rewards." 

We already know how he feels about rewarding those who are roleplaying (one can presume since the roleplayers have been benefiting most from the current system that this is intentional) hence the need to stress fairness - if discussions aren't being rewarded then stories probably shouldn't be either.