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Done Started by: James_T_Kirk on Jan 30, '20 02:45
There seems to be more CLs/Hands than there are active crew members most the time. The reason you see many of the same CLs being authed are because they're the only ones that want to be authed.
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Dean so why do we not ever acknowledge the opposite side of the blood line issue? We are all fine and dandy trying to kill blood lines we dont like.

 

Almost all my friends have been hunted and killed, we shared that experience together, why wouldn't we share the experience of winning together.

I know of multiple people who have only been authed once in a life time. I belive this is doug ross second time ever being authed.  I know people in my city who had to fight tooth and nail to get to where they are, why would they not look out for who helped them get there?

I have been authed 100 times, i earned it 99 times.

 

What have you earned?

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Hmmm, I'm so dumb! This whole time I've been using trust as the basis of selecting a RHM... I figured trust was key to grant someone access to your mails, personals, and info on all crew members. Holy shit, base it on units instead. Brilliant!! Can't believe I never thought of that....
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Oh and that silly bank thing too.
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Better not trust me Grooglez, im only level 20

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The simple fact is as much as credits are the lifeblood of allowing Izzy to commit time to the game they are also the single greatest problem. The administration are far too involved in the day to day of the game, the way it should work is you build a framework and a system for the players to utilize, then you allow the players the freedom to work within those constructs. If the players are finding ways to exploit and break the system then your system has failed not the players.

 

Whenever people play a game they will look to obtain maximum output for minimum input if you don't build that into your system and you are hoping for people to be wholly good, you are in for a world of disappointment. If people find a way to exploit $13 billion dollars, whilst certainly unethical, the system failed there the players are just doing what players do (Maximum output for minimum input).

 

If players script and aren't caught, again it's the system that failed there, (Maximum output for minimum input).  You want to know why you don't see new RHM and crewleaders? I for one was too scared to even consider authing anybody new, this system of endless accountability that is imposed (without any literature or basis in the TOS btw) means that if you auth someone and they screw up, you can lose your account. If your RHM screws up, you can die, if your GF cheats, sorry for you as well you just die. The admin are so involved in the game and constantly punish people further and further along the chain to the point where people are too scared to try anyone new. Even in communist countries when a minister is found guilty of fraud they don't indict every single person who ever worked with him including the person who appointed him.

 

Now I am not for a minute suggesting that people who steal $13 billion from the game were correct, or that scripters should be allowed to roam free, but the rest of the player base is not not responsible for that 1 person either.

 

Here is where it gets hard to separate profit from best intention. Let's assume that $1 = $425,000 MR Money.

 

Whenever a CL is DD'd or Killed as a result of any of the above bullshit reasons let's look at the math and we can use LV as a case study.

 

Homer - Capped + Max Forts  ($400,000,000)

Zeitgeist - Capped + Max Forts ($400,000,00)

Insta - Capped + Max Forts ($400,000,000)

 

$1,200,000,000 removed from the game, or $2823 (just from the CL's)

 

When CL's are removed those locations need to be filled by new crew leaders within 7 days or else they get NPC's (Which remove even more money from the game more I will use a time in NY where it was roughly a $300,000,000 cost for the city or to put it another way $705)

 

When those crew leaders need to set up, they need to max their forts or they aren't seen as caring about their members (and get DD'd) so that's $40,000,000 (Roughly) or to put it another way $94. They also need to start paying for BG's to protect themselves the slow climb to $350,000,000 or to put it another way $764.  So when a GF is "caught' scripting and half the city is jailed, then wiped out as a result MR/Izzy has a massive financial windfall from this decision.

 

Imagine you ran a game and you had a button that could magically generate $1000 over a few weeks when you pushed it? Now don't get me wrong a lot of money is made as well, CA's, and Drug running add a lot of money to the game, but a large amount of money is pumped into the game whenever this happens. Site wide wars are a literal wet dream, every has to rush to rank (so jailing $1 a pop), and crew leaders who survive need to find (like after the last war) 17 auths in a matter of a week. Every death, means money going into the game.

 

We all love the Rogue's and Roguette's that are spawned, but want to know the dirty truth? They result in people building cap killing guns faster, which means the cycle of the game moves quicker, people have to rush to protect themselves faster (buy credits) more $, it's why every single argument for making ranking harder is ignored, harder ranks would most likely lead to longer game cycles and less income. 

 

Whenever you see a decision in game and a crewleader or hand DD'd think about what that means from a financial point of view. It's also why it's unbelievable unethical for admin to be as involved as they are in the game. Objectivity is clouded by $.

 

Solution?

 

Build a system that works and allows the player to navigate within it freely

Stop holding entire cities accountable for errors from one person and you might see new auths/hands

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In the case of Las Vegas, only Homer was DD’d. The city was wiped because they were weak thereafter. Maximum output, minimum input.
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Chacho. If that is all you took from that post it is worrying.
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I generally agreed with the above-mentioned. However, resting your argument on a single case where the facts are not being correctly portrayed is destructive and unnecessary. Consequently, I sought to clarify that.

The current system does not cause a lack of new auths and hands. It is the people running it. I have been part of a handful of organizations who valued, supported, and facilitated success AND learning for new players to reach leadership roles. The same people who are blood-lining are those who are putting people they know back into power time and time again. Obviously this is an oversimplification, but look to those currently in power as an example.

It's time for this community to blink and realize blood-lining has been bad for the game, will be bad for the game, and will continue to lead to this game's deterioration (alongside additional factors, of course). 

Support leaders who represent your interests and your ethical values if you don't like seeing the same people over and over again. The game doesn't need a complete overhaul to address that point. 

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Any time the person or people at the top of the pyramid cheat, the whole landscape of the game is impacted. I think it must be quite a difficult balance to strike between actually punishing the offenders in a meaningful way and not harming truly innocent people. Potential financial gain does not appear to be the only or even the overriding motivating factor in making those decisions.

This game runs on bloodlining and always has. I don't just mean when it comes to killing people either, because I'm doing it right now; I signed up on this name to play as me and cash in on the work I did previously and enjoy the benefits that come with that. Some, if not most, of the decisions the majority of players make are based upon the identity of the user, rather than the character. The desire to kill that user when they are doing the same things, speaking to the same people, and effectively being the same person is entirely understandable. Asking for it to stop is futile. People don't make a distinction between the person and the character and with the advances in technology in recent years, I can't imagine they ever will. Everything is too muddled up. I don't think that issue in of itself is going to kill the game as it hasn't up to now. 

As to the authing of new leaders etc. most people have realised that accepting auth from a regime you aren't part of is effectively giving that regime a green light to kill you in a couple of weeks. There is no proving yourself by leaving the warm embrace of your protectors, you just become a risk and then a threat. I doubt there are people lining up to be authed, as there very rarely is, irregardless of the punishments meted out by Squishy. If I'm wrong on that and lots of people have been overlooked for auth or dissuaded because of DD'd, then I will gladly change my position. Haven't seen much evidence of it in the past though.

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"No Crew Leaders below level 45.  No hands below lever 40.  How is that hard? "

This opinion didn't age very well.

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HAHAHA Some preachers don’t practice what they preach, just shows the level of character of people.

😂✌🏻

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You’re one to talk Dean, just saying. 😂
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One to talk? Hmm I seem to be over 45 units and both of my hands are above 40.. as well as hold the rank of consig. So care to elaborate because I don’t see the same from you, since you wanna call me out?

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Two central issues with this game prevail time and again with unsatisfied players. The prevalence of cliques and the issue of the extraordinary gap between rulers and the ruled. Cliques, in my opinion, are inevitable. And also, in my opinion, not really an issue. Cities should be cliques. Districts should be cliques. I'd say the problem arises when the hierarchical structure of the Mafia is hijacked by cliques that do not fall on crew-, district-, or city-based borders.

This is not to say that every city must get along nor should cities constantly be at war. The point is if one crewleader from one city and a RHM from another and a hitter from another are in "a clique," you're going to have problems. Those people have loyalties in-game that should transcend OOC friendships, and they don't. We're seeing this now with city heads who are more interested in preserving their clique than the members of their own city. This is a serious problem for the longevity of the game.

To exacerbate this, the gap between the rulers and the ruled inhibits those not at the top from intervening. They cannot "correct" the hierarchy because that path is a series of gates for which the people they seek to correct hold all the keys. We can discuss what the ruling class ought to do or ought not to do, but that's all it will ever be for most players- discussion. There is no mechanism by which the rest of us can demand things to be better. Sure, we can set our "loyalty" to "Disloyal" and make an impassioned Streets post (or in this case OOC), but it changes nothing. Until those mechanisms exist, there will always be an enormous barrier to entry for any player wishing to take the game more seriously, and I think, again, poses very serious challenges for the game's capacity to grow.

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Thrawn please elaborate.
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Oh dear. I sense another Grin moment on the horizon. Rupples Thrawn.

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I want to hear more about the same people getting authed and doing fuck all for the game. 

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Respectfully, I was referring to a past hypocrisy from Mr. Winchester regarding the account he is "back from the dead" from. You can find that posting here if you would like. However, that was out of line here, and I will reach out to Mr. Winchester personally. My apologies for what has been said. Never drink and post, terrible idea.


That being said, I would like to know how an 11 day old CL is considered doing fuck all for the community, and is this the case for anyone given a crew in this time frame?

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Attaboy Thrawn, swallow your pride and apologise for an out of character thought, blame the booze, knuckle under and comply with our imperial masters, so you can squeeze 60 days outta your run.

Proud of you, boo.

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