More importantly though, both he and Grin-07 are a long time dead now and regardless of what I say here, I'm fairly sure most people either already have an opinion or, more likely, don't care either way.

Yes Grin you are quite correct in that statement. What I was pointing out was that in fact Soseki was correct as to my father's motivations and that You and yours are what caused his attack against CH/DT not West. 

StinkEye aka Refugee aka Whoreable prepares to reply to the latest falsehoods. She organizes her thoughts and comes to the realization that what she was prepared to say would just be redundant. She decides to make her final statement on the matter at hand simple and to the point.

I love a good verbal spar, most know this about me. That said, it doesn't come from a venomous place deep within my soul; for me, it's trash talk, pure and simple. I feel all the name calling is over the top, that's why I always choose my words carefully. I'm not going to engage in a... he called me scum, so I'm going to call him that back or think of an even worse word. It's just not my style.

Observe which side resorts to the most vociferous name-calling and you are likely to have identified the side with the weaker argument and they know it. 

-Charles R. Anderson

Fantastic to see most of the core values of the mob thrown away and not given a shit about.

Thank you for proving my point, zings.

I wonder why you felt the need to personally attack my father, even after death. Did he hurt you in some way? Are you okay now?

Core values:

First and foremost the upper structure is supposed to teach those of us new to these shores. So far all I have learned is to be indifferent towards people. You people only know what respect is when you are not receiving it, and don't what it means to give it.

All any of you are worried about is what has this persons past bloodline done to me. How can I mistrust them? How can I discredit them? How can I control them before they hurt me?  I have news for  you people this the mentality a paranoid person.

I feel sorry for you people that think this a mafia mentality.

The values I were talking about were things like Omerta, Honour, Respect.

If what has been said about rap sheets/kill records being shared between multiple cities is true, then that has to be one of the biggest breaches of Omerta I've ever seen, wouldn't you agree?

In terms of honour and respect; I wouldn't expect an individual who had these core values or believed in them, to be insulting a Made Man who had recently died, never mind someone who had achieved the esteemed rank of Godfather.

I understand the kin of the fallen get pissy and bitch and whine in the streets, but that is why they are considered thugs. As only a Gangster myself, I would hope those higher than me wouldn't stoop to their level, and would set an example for us lowly mobsters.

Mandalorian can you clarify as to why in your statement you failed to mention your attack on LV?

Are you just trying to control the narrative to suit your needs or is it the fact that your father tried and failed to kill me? If you are going to tell a story at least tell the whole story, which is you killed your whole city most of whom had no idea you even planned to attack CH/DT/LV, but lets just blame everyone else for your monumental fuck up.

No matter what happens that press up to a war so dont everyone like it how good the explanation are anyway.

War is always so sad but since its a gangsta-problem each time so is it fun each time to read about how it started, many thanks to Grin-08 for this great explanation for last war.

Im not trying to control any narrative actually just saying why my father did  what he did. The attack on you was merely one made due to a lack of unproed targets and at that point it was essentially get who was open and you for some reason had not been proed a few hours into that attack. Believe Me when I say my father had no personal issues with you but you were merely an open Bold option. 

Mandalorian I'm calling bullshit because you had no affiliation to LA and no cause to defend them at the time so why attack two days before FatherJack was to Godfather, pure paranoia that you couldn't hit him once he had.

The combined cities of Chicago and Detroit could have wipe New York off the map entirely without Jack getting Godfather.

The fact they attacked Chicago and Detroit shows LA was nothing but an excuse as the attack on was primarily planned by Chicago & Philly with assistance from Detroit, yet Philly didn't appear to be targeted in your first wave.

When I was a little kid, my father always brought me to the office. Therefore I was pretty well informed about some things that have gone on during the last months in Seattle. I have spoken to the New York leaders that charged into war, to the Seattle Rogue, to some of the last standing of Philadelphia's lately as well as to influential people behind the scenes and to those in the spotlights.
If I hear you say, bringing kids into the headquarters of criminal organizations is wrong, I will answer you with the fact that how people bring up their children and how much attention they get is off-limits for you to have an opinion on. That's private, it crosses the line with how far you can go.

There, he said what was needed to be said as an introduction. If there was anyone to judge what his father had done, it would have been Judge_Topperson himself. He would now focus on his view of what some people had spoken up about

Looking at Curtis, the judge said
It's an interesting point you make, but if West actually was that bad at his job, would he have stayed on as Godfather Chairman for so long? Maybe.. and now I am playing the role of the devil's advocate, he lived that long because all those people that felt he was terrible at his job were killed? I know for a fact that the warnings you say he has been given were not only coming from that direction. There have also been warnings from other people, warnings that his life and city would be taken by the ones that have taken it in the end. I don't see an angry Soseki, I think he knew his dad was having a tough time. Mind you, even if what I have heard of is only half, that amount of the head-ache-files would already be enough for me to be institutionalized.
I feel your argument of being part of a group that never lost a war they started is well.. awkward. We all know that the people taking initiative are most likely to end up victorious, on the condition that it is all well prepared. So if plans were made for said group, that never lost a war it started, to be removed overnight, they would still not have ever lost a war it started, would they?

Judge_Topperson swallowed, then looked at Grin-08 and whispered
Boss, if you keep talking about Whoreable, Even in my corrupt court, I would even have to disqualify all your evidence, if your case is against Refugee. Speaking of which..

Speaking in louder voice, he continued
Yes, Refugee said some things about his bloodline not being experienced with leadership, but his position was earned through hard work, being social, focussing during wars and loyalty ever since my granddad started his 40 feet container crew. In his time at the Supersonics, he showed flair and competence and therefore he earned to set up himself when Ballard was full. Charles_Barkley let him set up and my father joined as a Right hand man to help him. There never was any foul play involved. Only when war broke loose, they chose not to fight for West. I must admit that I wonder what would have happened if the first wave would have been even poorer and they would have missed on Charles_Barkley as well. We will never know if Refugee would have joined the fight then, along with the man that authed him.. So from the points you give, I stick to the idea that Refugee did play by the book. He was not the first to lie about his ancestry, nor will he be the last. That in itself is less of a crime to our society than to attack an amazing organization like the Seattle Supersonics, even if half the guns used in the first wave were waterpistols..

So Grin-08, if there is anyone you should be angry with, it should be my father, for not seeing through Refugee's appearance. But still, in the end, what is the huge issue? Refugee died at the end of the war. Should he have fought along with West, maybe the damage inflicted on other cities would have simply been even bigger. You should be happy that he had a secret agenda to not support West.

For a minute, Judge_Topperson wanted to make a joke about @Lil_Pato's death when he heard of people being mashed into the pavement, but he chose not to.

Being a judge, somehow I have been able to lay my hands on what has been called proof from both parties. And to be frank, I am not convinced with either set of evidence. But then again, a decent sum of money sent to me can always change that..

Wondering if he went too far in his public display of greed, Judge_Topperson overthought deciding to let the truth prevail over money for once, but then he rejected the thought as he liked money too much.

Looking at SammyGarcini now, the judge spoke
You feel we are losing core values? Do you feel the mafia should not evaluate about mistakes, about communication lines, about trust, about treachery, about proof that is not solid enough to take to court, yet apparently decent enough to wipe a city? This is the core of the mafia. Who is trusted by who and who is not and foremost why?

Finally, looking at Tetley, Topperson said
I am sure you know what Mandalorian meant about how the removal of Los Angeles felt like a writing on the wall to his father Koyuki? The fact that Los Angeles was removed behind the back of the only Godfather in the country, wiped away from the country forever, more or less from his backyard, whilst he did not feel reasons for the removal. How do you think Koyuki must have felt when his only strong ties were with West? It's not very hard to see why he took action, rather than dying in his sleep. And whoever he decided to target first back then, he probably felt those to be the most influential people in the mob at that time.

With that, Judge_Topperson stepped back. He needed to oversee some cases in some of his courts. Foamy's nuts were on his mind..

I really don't have much whatsoever to add to this conversation other than to offer the good Judge a healthy helping of my nut, I know how he loves a good mouthful.

Judge_Topperson seeing as you've mentioned it, Godfather West was spoken prior to the removal of Los Angeles from what I heard and the response was (and I'm paraphrasing here as I wasn't in the direct conversation) "I see no real reason for it but I'm not going to stop it".

Now I can see why you may not of been privy to that information but my father was. It's obvious why the cities that attacked Los Angeles didn't inform New York but West certainly had the knowledge it was being considered by Chicago and Philly. I can only speculate he didn't share that information with New York because if he did it's yet more evidence that Los Angeles removal was just an excuse to remove Chicago and Detroit, nothing more.

I'm trying to move on from this conversation honestly but that is very different from what my father told me Tetley. Killing LA was discussed and West argued strongly against it for three reasons:

- Killing LA without any provocation would increase paranoia throughout the country and in NY in particular

- LA had been staunch allies, they had fought and died when asked without question.

- They didn't represent a significant threat at the time.

These points were argued over for some time, with some very valid points brought up in favour of their removal. The final word specifically about LA in that discussion was something like 'Fine we'll leave them then.'

A few hours later they were shot with no further warning given to West or Koyuki which clearly exacerbated the first point my father had made against the takedown. 

A couple days later NY took their shots and Koyuki said the following:

"The decision to take out LA without inclusion of Seattle or New York was something I couldn't ignore because the simple fact a "Sorry" was all it took to be over it told me that when Grin's father decided that New York had to go and didn't care what anyone else had to say about it they'd go for it "