During the war last night, people had considerable difficulty in seeing someone in their locals list who had a reputed entourage of around 400 people.

This seems pretty ridiculous to me, because surely the most highly protected people in the world (think of the President for example) who travel around with the highest levels are security would be the most visible, rather than the least. Therefore I suggest the following:

The more bodyguards you employ, the easier you are to view in the locals list.

This will only be a small disadvantage to having an army of bodyguards, but after reading over Kurtz' suggestion regarding stealth and hearing that it will be implemented, I do believe this may at least provide some game play bonuses. Your stealthy assassin is going to work alone realistically, he couldn't rely on 400 people to protect him, his skill would lie in remaining undetected. Therefore, if you wanted someone to train this valuable skill, they would have to be prepared to take the risk for it.

Benefits of the suggestion other than that are hopefully, albeit a small one, a deterrent from buying a bazillion bodyguards. Although I'm sure great armies are going to employed shortly regardless.

Problems from this suggestion? I don't really see many, but I'm happy to field any questions that people may do.

~C~

Love this suggestion.

As has been stated... realistically, no one is traveling around sneakily with 400 people. (No one is traveling around with 400 people anyways, but that's a suggestion for another place). The idea that one could actually choose between having 1 Bodyguard and being able to travel stealthily OR have a small army surrounding them for defense is very appealing.

Sunuvabitch! As I had said previously (the blank reply above), I agree with the suggestion. Stealth should be reduced due to an increase in the amount of Bodyguards someone has. Not just in the matter of locals, but in shooting as well.

This is a perfect idea.  I definitely agree with the more bgs more visible in locals idea.

This has already been suggested and implemented.  There is a (slight) decrease in stealth as a user continues to accumulate bodyguards, which begins at around 50.  

Then I would request that this needs to be significantly changed.

The idea that me and my 400 friends are harder to see than you and your 0 doesn't make sense.

This idea will also fit in perfectly with the trainable stealth. If someone with 400bgs is as clear as day to see in the locals it will make them want to do pickpockets and train their stealth.

As much as I want to be a stealth nanny.. I am old and I can't be sneaking around much anymore. Therefore my army of Pensioners help me a lot! Love the idea, and yes if it is already implemented to a certain extent.. then the extent needs to be greatly improved to see a difference.

As Chuckle said.. You and your 400 friends being harder to see then just one guy on his own? Completely unrealistic. If you can't see an army of 401 people walking down the streets then.. you NEED your eyes testing. Even I can see that in my very old granny age.

In fairness, from a roleplay perspective, one can counter - who's to say the 400 bodyguards aren't disguised as civilians, mixed in with the actual user?  400 people as fodder would easily conceal someone if they tried.

Since stealth is a static trait, I don't think it should be changed - info inherently has the upper hand as it is always trainable. 

I don't think that really works from a roleplay perspective.

A bodyguard isn't going to be purely fodder. If they are, they should never be missed and invariably be killed by nearly every shot fired in their direction. Similarly, how can they be disguised as civilians, whilst you're running around shooting people, robbing post offices and busting people from jail? Pretty suspicious looking civilians to be conveniently at the scene of all these crimes.

Even if your interpretation was viable, which I don't think it is, this is still a disadvantage (albeit a small one) from having a gazillion bodyguards. That, to me, is a good thing in itself.

~C~

Re-raised given the Stealth discussion.

Obviously as this was my suggestion, I won't sponsor it.

Re-raised given the Stealth discussion.

Obviously as this was my suggestion, I won't sponsor it.

I've had a small idea on this.

Add something else into bodyguard training, not for all the bodyguards but just a select few, say 10% of your overall compliment. These 10% are then trained up to a higher standard than any other bodyguard can be trained; Stealth, WackBack ability, Stamina, Defense. But as these are only 10% of your original compliment your overall defence is lowered.

This way, you can chose to travel with your full compliment of guards and sacrifice the stealth aspect, or you can travel with a much smaller elite group who will not affect your stealth in any way.

Also I would suggest that you have to have a certain compliment of guards before this option can even become available, So for every 10 normal guards you can train the 11th up as an elite guard.

I have to admit. Although I rarely ever agree with Grin and his idea's. This one is a bloodly fantastic idea. We're the mafia, not Assassin's Creed. You can't hide under a bunch of people following you around 'stealthy'. The more BG's..the less stealth. Simple as really.

I respectfully disagree. In times of war, bodyguards are supposed to hide your ass! i hate to bring up such a touchy subject, but on 9/11 after the planes hit, nobody fucking new where georgie was. Not a god damn person. Being in the security industry myself I know that the most effective way of securing a VIP is to get them to a new secure and secret location. also, a good protective agent wont let on what he's doing.  most people think of 'secret service' as the badasses in a suit and sunglasses and they think the same with the CIA but it's a common misconception. Most bodyguards are meant to blend in with the crowd. And unless the president is out there kissing babies and shaking hands, no you're really not going to see him (Especially if somebody is shooting his RHM and LHM) especiallly in motorcade type deals bodyguards are trained to NEVER STOP and to not draw attention to themselves. I understand that having a large mass of BGs following you would seem suspicious, I say that REAL bodyguards would make it so you wouldn't even know they were there. 

An alternative in my opinion might be this: If you have bodyguards that are injured, or untrained, you'll stick out like a sore thumb. If somebody hits one of your bodyguards or shoots at you you're also going to be vulnerable for a while. But on the other hand if we're talking realistically if you had hundreds of bodyguards and the VIP they're protecting/one of their coworkers got shot or even shot at, the ones that weren't escorting the VIP to safety would be shooting your ass so...

But anyway just my two cents from someone who's worked in a security field.

So in your professional experience, you can blend 200 BGs into the crowd?

of course the numbers are a tad more extreme in a GAME. but, honestly it would make it all that much easier with loads of people. 200 people is a decent sized crowd. If say the VIP is in a car. You've got him in a box. You've got a lead, a follow and a probably three cars both to the east and west streets keeping in line with the VIP.

Then you'll probably have people stationed both from where the VIP entered his car and at his destination. If the key is stealth then the key is simply stealth. You have people dressed in civvies at both his entry and exit points. You probably have the vip in a car that looks like a civilian car along with all of the surveleince cars. A good surrveleince/protection team wont even let the VIP know where his guards are or how many they have following him. 

on top of the follow and lead cars you probably have some cars waiting on streets just idling, in case the course has to be diverted. Now you think of a busy street there could be upwords from fifty cars on a single road plus dozens more on the subsequent streets. Five men to a car plus maybe 50 men stationed at the VIP's destination/departure point most are probably dressed as maintanance men/road workers/just regular policemen. Oh, then, so the motorcade doesn't get made, you have all of the cars alternate positions from the outside box to the lead to the follow and vice versa. Oh, and then if the VIP's destination is unknown you might have two or three streets deep and upwards of 100 unmarked civilian-like cars spread out over a square mile all comunicating by radio.

Bodyguards. are. not. bouncers. or. thugs.

I could accept if you had a team of highly trained BGs, that they could conceal you.

200 clowns who would work for a "Thug"?

Can't see them being much use for anything other than bullet shields personally.

I agree entirely grin. Although if you think about what you're paying a bodyguard in this game it's a completely different story...

Right now I'd have to pay 4.5million for a bodyguard. A member of the secret service would be hard pressed to make that in a lifetime.

But like I said, i've proposed an alternative. If someone starts shooting at the motorcade/VIP the entire team is going to converge, the VIp's direction is going to have to be diverted. If one person attacks a protected VIP you're going to know it happened. I would say that if the BGs weren't trained past 90% the persons visibility would go down. I would also say that if the VIP was under attack (Pro wack included!!) that they would immediately become visible to anybody with half a brain. 

I'm sorry.

If the BG's aren't trained past XX% their visiblity would go UP.

If your BG's are a bunch of retards then yes, everybody and their mothers is going to see you coming.