So they say rogues are bad. I actually think we need rogues they are our example of deviant behavior. Every society needs that group of people who are the example of deviant behavior so the rest of the people  understand what is  considered  right and wrong behavior.  

But 

Are all rogues equal?  

No they are not you have two types of rogues. 

Those who rogue just to cause mayhem, these are the deviants you really don't like because they have no purpose. On the other hand  you have those who rogue with a purpose, these are  the ones who become martyrs for their group or the ideology that they are supporting. Both cause disruption  but they are not equal.

It is these rogues who have a purpose who we are looking at today, because these rogues commit a deviant behavior to bring attention to deviant behavior.  This also shows  us what is deviant behavior because their target is the deviant  person or persons committing  deviant behavior, this makes the rogue a martyr. 

So, I come here to this street corner so we can hear from recent rogues and those who have rogued in the past to share what was the reason you rogued, other than to simply cause mayhem? 

So, I come here to this street corner so we can hear from recent rogues and those who have rogued in the past to share what was the reason you rogued, other than to simply cause mayhem? 

Harper waited patiently but didn't think this was going to happen. 

TheOfficeManager thinks its "equally" likely for hell freezing over.

He grabs a chair and waits patiently besides Harper for something to happen... 

There was a woman who lived in our neighbourhood when I was a kid, said she could talk to the dead, and you know what? People paid her to tell them what they wanted to hear. It was a nice little hustle.

Wearing his shades to prevent anyone seeing the bags under his eyes after the red-eyes flight he had just landed, PilotPhil looked at the reactions of Harper and TheOfficeManager. They sat patiently in anticipation of an answer to Joald's question, which they clearly found unlikely to happen. After Eggs_Benedict's words, Phil stepped forward.

It does sound like a decent business plan for an old lady, Eggs_Benedict, he started. But I must say that, although it happened many generations ago, I believe the story I will share is not something that has been made up for earning money.

PilotPhil shifted his weight from his left to his right foot

Let me start with saying that I find it unlikely for you to have an actual living rogue step up here and share their story with you, Joald, as you know how most rogue stories end.

Phil lifted the Aviator's Daily newspaper he was holding, skipped through the pages and for a moment paused at the Air Hostess of the Day, who showed some brilliant skills in aesthetics on page 8 and 9. After a small gulp, he flipped the pages on, onto page 13, folded the newspaper and said

Here. Here is the most likely place you encounter rogues. Yet, I have the story of my far forefather to share with you, I can tell you the reasoning behind his actions and even show you the logs of the discussion he tried to bring up back then. As most rogues, he knew exactly how it would end when he started it. Page 13 of Aviators Daily.

My late far forefather was the first of my bloodline to make it to these shores. He tried to make his way in this thing by working hard and being social, but he had very little idea of what it meant to train a gun or what it took to be in command or anywhere near it. However, he was quiet close with his crew leader, as well as the then godmother of New York.

At a certain moment, New York ended up in a long-lasting war with other cities, an alliance of some cities further West, also including Detroit. My forefather was impressed by the fighting spirit of his city, New York, singling out the Godmother, who in the end decided to sacrifice herself to keep the remaining people of New York safe.

From what I heard, and I could be wrong, as this has been passed on from generation on generation and not every member of my bloodline has been as reliable as the planes from Phil Airlines are.. When the smoke cleared, the crew my forefather was in was the only one remaining crew of New York and soon after, it was stated they were to move to Detroit.

PilotPhil straightened the sleeve of his uniform jacket, after taking off a leaf that had just been blown onto it by the breath of wind that brought some cooler, moist air to the crowd.

My forefather refused to move. Although he did not have a trained gun and he refused to even try to shoot at anyone, he could not leave the city in which his beloved Godmother had died for the one that had recently been the enemy. So he decided to stay. And to stay, he had to leave the family without permission and set up in New York himself, which was exactly what he did, making him not the only the first criminal in my bloodline, but also the first rogue.

From that point on, the story's a bit vague, but it has been said that he has lived on for many more hours..

Four hours and about 10 minutes to be exact.. and indeed kept his word never to use his pea-shooting gun.

After sharing his family story, PilotPhil looked at Joald, hoping they were content with some reply at all, albeit this history included neither havoc, nor bloodshed. He looked at Eggs_Benedict and added.

Although it is not heroic, at least it isn't a story I just made up!

PilotPhil nodded and stepped back

 Harper  and TheOfficeManager I am truly you feel that way about  these stories.  Truly they would help teach those newer to these shores why folks rogue and what happens to them.

I have never rogued, but I have seen some rogues who were treated as shit and others who treated as martyrs .

So, that means there are stories here to be told. People not sharing just goes to prove they  don't want to teach any of the new people anything. 

EggsBenedict don't be a troll try and be on topic. Not make some comment in a discussion that  not only adds absolutely nothing to the conversation, but is not even on topic. 

PilotPhil Thank you for sharing your story, regardless if it is real or not I hope you get a decent payment for it since that appears to be your only reason for writing.  

Yes, I understand this was a challenge to people to share any past relatives rogueing.  And I completely understand that not everyone has the backbone or balls or courage to share. It takes a person who is confident in who they are and who their ancestor was and the reason they did it for to be able to do this. 
 

So basically your fake story and what  Harper and TheOfficeManger have said  is that not one person has that confidence, those balls or the courage to share a even a real rendition. 

Wayne was sitting by and listening curiously. He hadn't really intended to say anything, but after this last bit he couldn't help but burst out laughing. When everyone turned to stare at him, he decided he must indeed speak.

"I'm sorry, I just can't with you, Joald. Imagine coming out to the streets and asking people to recount stories that could potentially put them in hot water...only to berate them and call their story 'fake' when they have actually presented proof of the authenticity of their claim...before you even called it fake. Preposterous. 

I've done my best to avoid visiting your 'speeches,' such as the shameless bump you did on your relative's ridiculous 'muggers anonymous' blibber - how can a group be called muggers anonymous while you shout about it in public and urge people to display their aggressions on their suits? Insane. 

And then there's the bit about people not talking about your topic only proving your point...yikes.

I know that the crazy gene runs strong within your blood, but if you could try to make it a little less obviously attention seeking, many of us would be grateful."

Hands Wayne a coffee, tips hat respectfully and walks on...

Oh yes, thank you.

PilotPhil lifted his right hand to push his jaw back up, after he was attended his jaw had dropped and never returned back up, standing there open-mouthed after Joald actually said what he had just said. Listening to Wayne, the pilot finally realized it was not PilotPhil that had gone crazy. And although the Figure It Out leader had already countered Joald's words, Phil felt he needed to reply personally, too.

Joald..

I don't understand you at all. Let me see if I have enough fingers

PilotPhil lifted his thumb

Do you actually not understand why Harper and TheOfficeManager say they do not expect to hear any story?

Adding his index finger

Would you expect a public rogue guide? So people can learn how to go rogue in the middle of the Streets? Don't you think that'd be odd?

Phil's middle finger was the third to be lifted

You say noone comes forward, whilst I just shared a history with you. And as Wayne said, I even added proof, showing you the logs.

The fourth point had to be short, as with the ring finger lifted up, his little finger was already half way lifted

I know this community a bit, as I flew many of them around on my Phil Airlines flights, and I can tell you: People in this world generally are extremely willing to help and to teach.

Now lifting his whole hand, Phil spoke

You question the truth of my story? Whilst I said it truely happened and I proved it?

See.. I need two hands. Six.

Where did you get the idea that I speak out just for receiving tips? My key business has always been the same, I fly and spot locals and whore for money. Believe me, I earn more that way than I get from tips. I speak up when I see something I want to comment on because I have an opinion I want to share, not to be popular or make money.

One full hand and two fingers up now

Not totally sure if that was a compliment towards me, about the backbone, the balls, the courage and the confidence, but somehow I feel it is not.

Eighth.. And then you are calling my story fake? First you doubt it's real and then you convince yourself of the fact that it's not..? That's rather awkward, seeing the proof given directly to you.

Lifting all fingers but his left tiny finger, PilotPhil said
And there you go.. The confirmation of your denial. Whilst you actually meant that you massively respect me, as I have the backbone, the balls, the confidence and the courage to share what my forefather did. Correct?

PilotPhil shook his head and started counting his fingers

It's not even that bad at all.. Just nine. I am not sure about his second hand, but if that's complete, then Frankie Four Fingers would also have been able to count all your misinterpretations, wrong assumptions, false conclusions and weird ideas on his fingers.

Joald, I'm sorry you did not understand the relevance of my comment, but hearing you now I understand why that was the case. So, on this occasion I will explain, try to keep up. You are asking people who have rogued to speak up. As far as I know there are no rogues alive. This is the reason I mentioned the woman who claimed to speak to the dead. 

Grace was an intelligent woman, but for the life of her she could not figure out what the purpose of this was. From a woman who spoke in a strange jilted way that was hard enough to follow, who then tried to shame those who responded to her, Grace just could not figure out why someone would come to the streets for this sort of interaction, unless they were just talking to hear themselves speak. 

"Eight times," Grace said, "she's said deviant eight times in such a short speech." With a head shake she continued,  "I would love to know how you plan on hearing from rogues of the past, since they tend to be dead. But if you're about to speak to ghosts, then I am willing to stick around." 

"Personally, I don't think rogues are martyrs, yes they are people who have a reason for going out guns blazing and there is a specific change they would like to see, but aside from a few of the recent names no one specific springs to mind, and a martyr is someone who is remembered. If rogues are martyrs for dying for what they believe is right, surely that means everyone in our world is, which can not be the case." 

"As for insulting those who come out here to engage with you regarding your wishes of speaking to the family line of rogues, I can't understand what purpose this serves you. It doesn't take balls to come out bragging about your father's sister's cousin twice removed dropping from a family to kill a leader of a big city, it just takes people wanting attention. Something you clearly know about, given your petulant responses."

Grace started chuckling, "You state we need rogues to show people what happens if you are a bad member of society, I suppose we need people like you as well, to show society how not to speak in public as well. Although the former should be covered by the rules of the family and city, that you agree to upon accepting an invite. Where as the latter isn't really covered in detail that I've seen." 

Another shake of the head, "We're criminals, not idiots. Well, most aren't idiots." Grace said, "what an enlightening speech this has been." 

Hands Grace a coffee in passing and tilts hat in respect before dragging the suitcase along....

Shoresy walked in, tapped PilotPhil on the ass firmly in a true friend's greeting fashion and looked over Wayne and had memories of his fantastic night with his mother the night previous.  

"Give yer balls a tug, titfuckers.  It sure is satisfying when people see what I have been saying all along.  I, for one, can vouch for Phil's story.  It is anything but fake.  Ancestors of mine were fairly intimately involved.  But, enough about that. I don't want to go down the toiletbowl again and debate with such idiocy."

"More on topic though - Rogues are part of the landscape here.  Some are just here to cause fuckery, but some are also here to be true to themselves. It's a rebellion to the conventional leadership here.  I won't say that the action is necessarily right, but the motive - at least to them - is true.   The most notorious of them are the ones that were so true to their cause that they took the time to hone their marksmanship cause a true effect either through the actions of themselves, or the reactions of others."

Shoresy pauses to rip some biscuits and take in the landscape.

"The definition of a martyr is someone who is killed for their beliefs.  I think that the best of us here are all willing to die for what we believe in, whether we are rogues, or rank up and be a GFC."

"I'm sorry, I just can't with you, Joald. Imagine coming out to the streets and asking people to recount stories that could potentially put them in hot water...only to berate them and call their story 'fake' when they have actually presented proof of the authenticity of their claim...before you even called it fake. Preposterous. 

 If you are commenting on my suggestion that PioltPhils rendition was make believe well he did as well in his post so that is a  hypocritical accusation. To accept him saying his story may not be real then berate me for doing it.

Why is it preposterous?   Do people regret their choices?  That is the only reason I can come up with.  If you are going to have regret or shame from your actions, then why do them? 

I am sorry I don't see it as silly as you do. But I also don't care what you all think of me, I am not in the popularity contest. This is most likely why I don't see it that way you do. Besides I have owned up to everything I and my bloodline has done. So why is  it preposterous to expect the same from my "peers". 

Berate no not berate I mean if I was going to actually berate anyone it would be that this thread has proven that the larger community wants to hold others accountable for their actions but will hide their accountability. If I was going to berate anybody it would be the people who are hypocritical like saying stuff like this  

I don't give a fuck about your "mugging status" either.
You are PP friendly to me.

and then say this nearly in the same breath 

You’d best be preparin’ for a Donnybrook if you think you're just gonna stick your super soft hands in my pockets.

If I ever rogue  I will come out and say exactly why.

Why? Because people don't learn nothing when you smack them around unless you tell them why, and even then some don't learn.

So yeah go ahead folks and make your little response to show your disgust or you laughing at the question or making it a trivial topic. That is fine I am use to  you all treating me like this.  I am still going to say what I want to say and ask what I want to ask. 

PilotPhil shook his head once more.

He has all rights to berate you, Joald, as I never said anything like it. I will quote myself for you to see where you misheard what I said. Your choice to choose where you made wrong assumptions.

Let's go through the options then, shall we?

I believe the story I will share is not something that has been made up for earning money.

Maybe from this quote you misheard that I made it up? You may have even double-misinterpret it even, as you said before I post for money and that I made a story up. It was a reference to what Eggs_Benedict said before.

 Yet, I have the story of my far forefather to share with you, I can tell you the reasoning behind his actions and even show you the logs of the discussion he tried to bring up back then. As most rogues, he knew exactly how it would end when he started it.

Or maybe you misread this proof for uhm..

Phil lifted his shoulders

From what I heard, and I could be wrong, as this has been passed on from generation on generation and not every member of my bloodline has been as reliable as the planes from Phil Airlines are.. When the smoke cleared, the crew my forefather was in was the only one remaining crew of New York and soon after, it was stated they were to move to Detroit.

Or did you mishear here? I told how I wasn't sure the crew my ancestor was in was the only one left in New York , so I said I wasn't sure of that exact fact. And as I recently received an update of the story from someone that's paid more attention in history class, the doubt was there for a reason. In fact there had been three crews that survived said war. They all moved to Detroit.

Did you mishear this for me saying my story was fake?

From that point on, the story's a bit vague, but it has been said that he has lived on for many more hours..

I get it now, you must think that I said the story was made up in this quote..! Although there is no reason to say how you made that from it

Although it is not heroic, at least it isn't a story I just made up!

Maybe you heard this then as me saying the story was made up? Despite that it says the exact opposite?

And if you mean me by saying someone makes the topic trivial, it's the contrary. You asked for something, I gave you exactly that. You label it as fake and even defend your own judgement. Then you complain about how people treat you? That's odd..

Joald my dear, I think you should make it a regular practice to write down things people are saying in their entirety so that you can go back and re-read them to yourself multiple times. Perhaps then you will be able to properly comprehend what people say to you. PilotPhil never said his story may be made up or anything of the sort. You have misheard him and projected your own mistake onto him. In doing so, you have all but guaranteed that no one else will come here to discuss your original topic.

Moving on.

I can see why my pickpocket and mug stances would irk you, in particular. You have always whined about people demanding respect without having earned it, despite that being precisely how your line acts time and time again. My stances are my stances because I'm a don crewleader who earned his place through hard work and dedication. These were not my stances when I was a lowly Wise Guy such as yourself. They have evolved over time as I have evolved in stature. I have the backing of my Godmother and Godfather Chariman, not to mention countless friends and allies who will confirm the fact that I've earned the right to react however I please to attacks on my person, be they pickpockets or muggers, or even rogues. To this date I have not mugged or been mugged, precisely because of those stances and the fact that my name and position carries the appropriate umph to back them up.

But I also don't care what you all think of me, I am not in the popularity contest.

 That is fine I am use to  you all treating me like this.

The first bit is an outright lie. You are what the kids call an "edgelord;" you are deliberately troublesome and confrontational because you think it makes you look cool or edgy. You are Kuku in female form, without the background intelligence to supplement your insanity. You feed off of the way people react to you and have never had any desire to change. Which is fine, no one is actually trying to force you to change. Again, this is an idea you have projected based on limited comprehensive cognition. No one cares if you will continue to be you and say what you wish - quite the contrary, you are known to be a lost cause who won't change. It makes for a nice little side show from time to time.

As for the second bit - people treat you how they do based on YOUR ACTIONS and YOUR WORDS. People don't come after you just because it's easy or because they're big bullies. You bring it on yourself, always, by being belligerent and rude in every available place, every time you speak. Perhaps if you weren't like that, people would respect your "boundaries."

Jimmy had been listening in on the conversation and couldn't help but chuckle. 

"I'm shocked, shocked I say that no one is stepping up to tell stories about their bloodlines that could potentially get them killed here today. I mean, who wouldn't want to drudge up old grudges and risk being fitted for concrete shoes?" 

Jimmy stopped chuckling and looked at Joald

"Jokes aside kid - there is nothing to learn from rogues. No offense, but if someone needs to see a rogue get shot in order to know what happens if you do mess up in this world then their family has already failed them - or they have failed themselves by not paying attention to their elders. My kin have been on these shores for a long time and a few things have rung true throughout all of their lives according to their journals. Without fail, every single one of them was asked to read, understand, and sign a set of rules which laid out right from wrong and the consequences of bad decisions. Every single one of them had leaders they could go to and ask questions and learn the way of things in this life of ours. Every single one of them was made to understand that their words and their actions had consequences and that they should choose both carefully."

Jimmy grinned a bit to take the edge off his next words,

"If it takes bullets flying for someone to learn the importance of those lessons the reality is that the bullets may very well be flying toward them."

# Chumps had been loitering in the street waiting for the post office to open when he noticed a few familiar people of standing in the community had gathered so out of curiosity he meandered closer to listen. Apparently the subject being discussed was somewhat of a touchy one as many people mulling around had not yet chosen to speak. Nodding his respects to all who had gathered there and stubbing out his fine Cuban cigar on the pavement with the heel of his shoe, Chumps sighed, and cleared his throat with a swig from a small silver hip-flask before speaking up. #

Excuse me, my friends after listening carefully I have a just a few words to add here..

# Chumps paused and looked around at the people there, looking each one of them directly in the eye, before continuing... #

There is indeed a lot to say on such a subject I am sorry however I am unable or just unwilling to delight or infuriate you all with any tales of my fathers indiscretions. I am not a man who would speak any ill of the dead neither those my own dead relatives nor those of anyone else gathered here today moreover if I was to insist such things did not exist you doubtless would not take me at my word just as i can not take the word of anyone else who would here profess to no such shameful activity's on the part of their predecessors. 

PilotPhil of course would never make up stories just for the tips but in all honesty he is the exception and not the rule as anyone who has ever been on his flights could tell you... but i digress..

Be very clear I say this with respect so do not take me wrong yet I have always felt those who protest loudest of their innocence to be the farthest from it. As it's only the most insecure little boys need try to talk and act like the 'big man' . No matter. What I did wish to say is there are perhaps more than only two types of what may rightly or wrongly be called 'Rouges' perhaps also there may be occasions when someone is, how shall i put this... 'paid' for some work knowing the nature of that work would indeed earn them this title and reputation. 

So i ask you are some of us perhaps not all just a little too damn eager to pin this word upon everyone who acts in a way not in keeping with the conduct one would expect from any member of this thing of ours?

Where was I, ah yes.. I Said there may be more than two kinds also there may be a kind that is simply paid by another party or rather makes some arrangement that the other party with see to it that his kin be taken care of after the deed is done, ' half now and half for your kin when the jobs been done '

# Chumps again pulls his silver flask from his pocket, takes a drink ..and pauses a long moment to look directly into the eyes of everyone gathered, and shrugs #

Who knows perhaps some people mulling around here today got to where they are because of just this. I am not saying this is a case I am just saying it is surely a possibility or am I out of line in supposing such things?.. Is the mere suggestion enough to make my words seem disrespectful? I surely would hope not my friends because sincerely this is only my conjecture for examples sake only and it is not any accusation. I after all am in no position to accuse anyone nor would I dream of any such thing.

What of the more types I spoke of? What of the man who is a good man then has a dear friend killed and goes to avenge this matter without the permission or knowledge of his Family. He was not born planning to be a rogue and nor was it central in his nature, yet some situation or other caused him to behave in the way that earned him the label and the stigma that goes with it. Or another example again a good man who is not born with intent nor is at his core so predisposed, takes one night to the drink and the drugs and pulls out his gun to resolve some trifle than had he been in his right mind he would have not been so hasty or reckless.. does the label stick to this man also?

To take this question a step further still if a man is the leader of a Family and he commands his soldiers to go and perform some reckless act against another Family or city before he has made any proper agreement with all the other city leaders to do such an act is that leader then to deserve this label? Or can everyone agree a crew leader never be this thing, this rogue? What then shall one call a man with the heart of a rouge who grows up to a position of leadership?  

You see my good friends all of these are good questions and all I wished to say was perhaps this discussion here rather than telling tales of the days gone by we might first start with being clear on what we shall and what we shall not call this ' rogue ' for some I am sure it suits their purposes fine to ignore the discussion and throw everyone who does anything not in keeping with this thing of ours under this label however I am personally not a fan of labels nor am I yet convinced this label is in all matters the most fitting one, because ..

# Chumps pauses and looks around one last time and sighs again #

.. such labels tend to 'stick' . don't they now. That is probably the real reason i do not hear too many stories. I Have said all that I wanted to add. That will be all from me on this topic.

# With that Chumps tips his hat and nod's his respects to all gathered around before casually strolling into the nearest post office. #

Fluffy had been meowing loudly, but as always was ignored by the dastardly mean LHM of his family. The neglect that man showed to this formidable kitten, it was beyond any feline belief!! He decided to go look for food elsewhere when he saw a big crowd of humans, mostly unwashed and uncivilized, looking on to some box... Hmm the box better would have served as a sleeping place rather than standing on it, coz most humans didn't really care for most people jumping on the boxes and just wander off mid-speech. But then he saw one of his old friends from one of his 7 past lives take the stage.

Through all the slurring words, the drags of beer from the big can he was holding he managed to somehow get some coherent sentences out, which were even clear enough for a cat to understand. He meowed in support. Quickly followed by that man with that weird shiny uniform who seemed to be the most compelling, swinging around his arms like he was a plane instead of just a pilot of one. As he heard the speech, he got some flashback from a previous life and decided to jump up to meow on the top of his lungs when the last person would leave the box.

As he perched, licked his belly a few times to ensure nobody was blinded by the rainbow glow, he began to meow:

Dear Joald, surely you do not question our good friend PilotPhil, he is the most honest man ever. His kin before him, albeit not always making the best decisions, always stayed honest, honourable and in firm line with his beliefs. The story he narrates, like Shoresy before, my kin can confirm. Not their proudest moment, but as they belonged to the family from which PP's kin decided to leave, he was tasked in the manhunt for this rogue and his sidekick. Seeing how my kin's small stature was good for sneakily hunting humans, he managed to be successful and brought the rogue to heel to ensure the remainder of the family could move to the offered safety.

Now coming back to your topic of why people or their previous kin have rogued, i couldn't give you 2nd hand info for none of my kin ever trod such a path (despite some people believing them capable and taking preventative actions).  But has seen them happen, sometimes being affected by them, sometimes just seeing it happen from a distance. In the journals of my kin, I read also that often power moves are akin to groups of rogues. If they succeed they are writing their own history, making themselves the good guys, when failing the remaining victors will brand them as dishonorable, rogues etc. Hmm, well maybe this will be a famous quote to come, but somehow I do believe many things to go down in history as they are commemorated, often by the victors, not the ones who ended up swimming with the fishiess...

Wait what, fishies, yum, gonna get me some of those!!!

Harpers hung around awhile and listened to the conversations escalate a little. She decides to step up hoping she might share some light on the topic.

Joald I hope this might help.

Are all rogues equal?  No they are not you have two types of rogues.

If it looks like a rogue, acts like a rogue, kills like a rogue, it’s a fucking rogue.  There are no types.

Truly they would help teach those newer to these shores why folks rogue and what happens to them.

They go rogue because they can  -  if they get caught they die.

I have seen some rogues who were treated as shit.

They are treated like shit because the laws of the land and every city you step in has rules that state they have zero tolerance for rogues.

and others who treated as martyrs

I’m just speculating now but in this thing of ours we create friends and foes. They might be treated as martyrs by those who have the power but not the backbone or balls or courage to do it themselves. They overlook the law of the land and happy to see the demise of the victim. 

So, that means there are stories here to be told.

If so, it would only be hearsay.

 People not sharing just goes to prove they don’t want to teach any of the new people anything.

The law of the land - No sponsored member of any crew is to be shot for any reason, at any time.

I think if your new people understood that they will be cool.  Rogue stories however intriguing are irrelevant.

Hope this helps.