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Its Time To Take Your Guns Started by: Spikey on May 31, '22 16:29
Is sisterIvory a highly sophsisticated troll?
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We have a right to bear arms, yet others don't.  The gun was created to kill and defend, to win wars and used to hunt but now we buy food from stores.  Its needed for the great war yet if that day comes it will be bombs that end the earth.  The saying is guns don't kill, but people with guns do.  Simple facts are you remove the guns and make people use their fist and guess what crime drops, punks/cowards don't like to fight but they are quick to shoot.  In Japan 1 percent of the population has a gun legally and they go thorugh a lone 10 year process to get that gun.  In america its a birth right.  Yet a pregant women was shot 5 times because she wouldn't get on her knees and the police thought she was a danger.  But a teenager kills 10 and wounded 3 others and he is walked out the police did not see him as a danger.  Common situations across the right to bear arms nation and their right shoot whomever by standing their ground and or driving to a location where they don't live to defend others that they never met.  We have national guards to defend property and people yet they are never used.  Protesters vs supermacy.  Yet we want to look at what again?  Oh yeah; band on assualt weapons, the right to bears arms, federal or state laws, police training, or critical race theory?  

This will be a life long debate because once the cilivian got a gun it has been used to kill their neighbors, for several reasons.  It was the same reasons when we only had swords; reasons such as reources, family frueds, differents of opinion or to settle a disput or correct a insult and a few dozen other reasons.  So chat amongst yourselve.  I'll be praying that I'm not shot by someone for going to get dipers or food or just going to work in the land of the free.     

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That was meant for another Outside forum chat my apologizes 

But i do want to add to this discussion. We are not the only country that has ever had this happen, but we just broadcast it for the whole world to see. Second, 50% of all gun deaths in the US are from suicide. Only 20% of annual homicides are from guns. So we have one crazy asshole kill a bunch of kids and you want to take away the right to bear arms? 

So explain this... how is an unarmed police officer going to stop a criminal with a gun? He's going to die, and more people will die after him or her. Also if you take away the right people will always find a way to bring them in. The fact the majority of these mass shootings happen in gun free zones should be proof enough. The same thing happened with prohibition, abortion and marijuana before this. People will find a way

If guns are truly the problem why has mass shootings not always been an issue? We have had modern guns for a long time people, it's not rocket science. 

Adolf Hitler should be a name you are all familiar with. He was able to kill so many people because one of the first things he did was ban the use of guns. Without guns you cannot protect yourself, your family or your country. The reason the US is so powerful today is because we have the second amendment and everyone knows you cannot try an invasion. Because if you somehow get to the country if the military won't kill you the people will. 

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I don't mind being mistaken, I don't mind being shown I am mistaken. 

I do however take issue with your name calling.

Does it make you feel better about yourselves when you call someone stupid ? 

Must be real nice for you people to be able to have conversations with people outside a  forum.

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Name calling is bad. Admitting a mistake deserves some respect. So there's that!

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When did I call someone stupid? Was that meant for me?

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Chef_Cthulhu

I don't want to get into this debate since I'm not in the US but I am going to call you out of the "Hitler banned guns" which I see way too often. Hitler did NOT ban guns. In fact the Weimar Republic introduced gun laws to Germany first, I would like to remind you the Weimar Republic started in 1918 and brought in gun controls in 1928. Hitler did not take power until 1933. What Hitler did do was use the gun control laws to raid Jewish homes and premises and remove their legally owned guns and revoked their gun owner permits. Hitler didn't need to ban guns when he could just walk in and take them. 

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Cheetara

So an evil overlord that physically took away guns to do evil shit? Hmmmmmmm

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Yes he was an evil person who took guns off specific people. Once again guns weren't banned. You could legally own a gun in Nazi Germany you just had to be the right kind of person. And stop but Hitlering everything, it's a bad faith argument when you have nothing else to comtribute.

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Cheetara

You are the one who wanted to talk about it? I am simply responding to u, which is how a conversation works. 

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sisterIvoryDarkmore - when spreading myths about mass murders, an emotive subject, maybe you deserve a bit of name-calling. Some things require due care and respect.

This isn't laughable myths like carberaturs or vapour trails, this is children being senselessly murdered and suggestable empty vessels like you soaking up nonsense about it being about the gubmint of the day.
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Jaws get off my clit you are not doing nothing for me.

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Ad hominon and subterfuge.

Pathetic.
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But the thing is, I do t think any of this matters. As Americans we are unique in that we have a Constitution. In that constitution it says we have the right to keep and bear arms. Doesn't get much clearer then that.
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In that constitution it says we have the right to keep and bear arms. Doesn't get much clearer then that.

The constitution didn't originally give the right to bear arms, a later change did.

Even when those rights were declared, they were for me, a white land owner.  Not you a white renter.  Not you, a black renter.  Not you, female property of men. Not you, natives.

Our laws are supposed to evolve to keep up with the times and adjust to morals/ethics/situations that were not accounted for by the framers.

I think we can all agree that regardless of what was written a few hundred years ago, that text is not necessarily applicable in the wording from before things even existed. Do I have the right to own and use a nuclear weapon so powerful that I can end the mid-atlantic region and wipe out 20 million because fuck you?

Do I have the right to deploy automated turrets to protect my property, any breaches of my geofence results in a hailstorm of projectiles placed with perfect accuracy driven by hundreds of thousands of lines of code designed to turn any breach on my property into a pulpy mist so fine that the next rain cleans it up good as new.

Does this right extend to the protection of my property regardless of where it is currently located? My rented air BNB? My bag? My car?  When my car is called to drive to the wifes office to pick her up and deliver her home, should it defend itself lethally by any car that swerves into my cars lane and risks its property value?  Does that change when my wife is in the car as opposed to unoccupied?

I am a huge supporter that *every sane responsible law abiding citizen who has demonstrated proper safety and training* should have the ability to own firearms - but I also like to apply a similar logic to drivers licenses.  If Virginia allowed a blind alcoholic 11 year old with 9 DUIs to drive a class 8 tractor trailer with air brakes and a hazmat load - it hamstrings the rest of the states laws who share the same roads.  We all agree that as a measure of public safety - as the vehicle gets larger and more prone to cause a mass casualty event, that the responsibility and training required to demonstrate that you can actually handle it goes up.

So no, I don't think the constitution is very clear, and it needs updating.  It took 135 years for natives to get the same rights.  Oh shit, maybe we should stop slavery 1865, oh yeah we forgot to give blacks the same rights 1868, oh yeah, I guess if you have a dick of any color, you can now take part in our legal process 1870, but not tits, that's 1920.

I can drive 2 hours south and buy a duffel bag of full of weapons out of the trunk of a car found through a craiglist listing and I don't have to pass a background check, there is no waiting period and its 100% legal. My state allows this for long guns, so I don't even have to drive.

I can fail a criminal background check when trying to purchase a gun in my state, then drive 2 hours south and buy them anyway then kill 7 people and wound 25 others like the texas shooter in 2019

I can be out on bond from a firearm related domestic violence felony case, hop on armlist.com and bypass the background check and murder my wife the next day like the Wisconsin man in 2018.

I can have a domestic violence restraining order and a pending domestic battery case, go and purchase a gun from a seller who is not required to do a background check, then kill my ex and her two kids.  2016.

I can be prohibited form purchasing firearms because of multiple felony convictions, but I can skip all that tedious background checks by using an online seller and then kill my ex girlfriend and 3 other people like the gentleman from West Virginia in 2014.

There is a bunch of common sense laws for federally licensed gun sellers, but these do not apply to gun sellers who do not get a federal license to do it because its a side hustle.

I don't think any of this was intentional by the founding fathers, nor those who improved upon the original constitution.

I don't think the constitution is very clear at all.

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When you order guns online they are shipped to a firearm dealer who does the background check. Except for private sales, like neighbor to neighbor for instance, there is a background check done.

Criminals who kill people are already breaking the law... So making more hoops to jump through is only hurting the law abiding citizen.
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Criminals who kill people are already breaking the law... So making more hoops to jump through is only hurting the law abiding citizen.

The average time for a NICS check is 107 seconds.  This process is not needed by gun dealers who don't bother getting a federal license in many states.  Just sell at shows, the internet, the paper, craigslist, the trunk of your car, behind the wood shed, and don't get a federal license and then you don't have to worry about those pesky federal laws that may limit your ability to profit to selling to people who can not pass the federal background checks.  I don't think I am trying to add more hoops, just closing the gaping existing loopholes.  My state has closed it for handguns, now requiring all handguns sales to be logged and a NICS/PSP performed at point of transfer.  (Although it still hasnt closed it for long guns, only handguns for now)

If criminals who kill people are already breaking the law, and adding more hoops to jump through is only hurting law abiding citizens, then why don't we take it a step further and offer no-checks gun rentals?  For $200 dollars you can have a firearm DeagleDashed to your house in under 30 minutes, plenty of ammo, and complimentary ears/eyes.  NICS checks that would have revealed all of the reasons you can't buy a firearm from a federally licensed gun dealer won't be required, in fact, it wont even be reported to anyone that the rental even took place.  This would make the entire process super easy and discrete.  You simply leave the GPS coordinates of where you are leaving the gun when its served its purpose, and press the handy 'FETCH' button on the app to share its location for pickup from the next available DeagleDasher driver.

With all of the firearms I have purchased over the years, the extra few minutes for paperwork was the least I could do to do my part to keep things a little bit safer.  I did not feel angry or minimized that my state required me go jump through the hoops to get my act-235, nor did I feel triggered when I had to get the local police to sign off on my CCP.  I can account for all of the whereabouts of every handgun and long gun I have purchased in my life.  I have documentation of every firearm that I have purchased/sold/given away over my entire life. Remember your criminals who kill people who are already breaking the law that you mentioned earlier?  Those guns came from somewhere. I know they weren't from me.

Research has shown that state laws requiring background checks for all handgun sales are associated with 48 percent lower rates of gun trafficking in cities and 29 percent lower rates of gun trafficking across state lines.

There is nothing wrong with using the Distance Filter when purchasing some random item on ebay to get it quicker.  But surely you can see there is something wrong when selecting a filter that advertises that you can filter out all of the gun dealers that will require a background check with the click of a button on some gun sites leaving just the ones that won't say no to your gun purchase that your background check would have prevented?

Part of being one of the care takers of this country, is that being free has a cost.  The system only works when you can count on everyone doing their part.  Things break down when you can't count on the decency of people willing to endure 107 seconds of additional shopping time to help curb one of the greatest embarrassments of this country.  I enjoy firearms, I enjoy using them for sport, I enjoy using them for hunting, I enjoy the peace of mind and security that it can provide me and my family.  I am 100% on board with 107 seconds of my time to ensure the longevity of my rights to own firearms, spare some of the burden of gun violence and its aftermath on those around me, and know that I am doing my part to ensure that our collective indifference isn't the reason why so many people needlessly die every day.

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If we flipped this so I said the equivilant to sisterIvoryDarkmore,  i can just imagine her response.  Send her a $20k tip and she flounces, but that response is OK in her weird world. 

 

Jaws get off my clit you are not doing nothing for me.

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Except for private sales, like neighbor to neighbor for instance, there is a background check done.

"Private sales", like 500,000 square foot of gun show.... online advertisements, and such.

Private sales are not just 'John, I got a new shotgun, want to buy my old one?'  Private sales is what many use to skate the requirements when you don't want to bother with the federal license laws.

You can sell thousands of firearms every year over the course of every weekend at your local gun shows and still be a private seller, unbound by such nuisances such as "Private parties are not legally required by federal law to: ask for identification, complete any forms, or keep any sales records, as long as the sale is not made in interstate commerce"

If you sell guns for fun... if you state that its a hobby to sell firearms, you are not required to get a FFL  If your stated primary motivation for selling guns is not profit, and that profit is only your 2nd motivation - you don't need an FFL.

If I wanted to sell 5 of my guns to my neighbor, sure, I am a private seller.  If I want to move 100 every weekend to strangers at convention centers around your state, why on earth should I still be considered a private seller?  As long as they can say 'I had no prior knowledge that they were a threat to others, and since I am not required to get ID, complete any forms, keep any sales records, or do any back ground checks, I could not have known about the 4 domestics, and 2 armed robberies he did earlier this year that would have prevented him from purchasing this firearm" then you can keep collecting your profits without the need for an FFL.

Please take a moment and scroll down this list https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/private-gun-sale-laws-by-state.html and you will see how many states let you easily bypass the FFL requirements of a background check and basic record keeping.

Is this really a good thing?

Again, I am personally all for guns, but that shouldn't automatically make me anti-regulation - it is possible to be responsible gun lover and agree with common sense regulation that aides in keeping guns out of the hands of people who can not bear the absolute huge responsibility of owning them.

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Another common sense approach could be an over 25's law.

Alcohol is over 21,whereas here in the UK it's 18.

Most mass shootings are committed by young men. There's evidence suggesting the male brain doesn't reach maturity until 25.

If guns were legal here, I'd probably own one, but I dearly hope the UK holds fast with hard gun laws and unarmed police.

All that said, the abundance of guns in America doesnt wholly explain the massive level of gun deaths. Hard to prove, but the sense of pervading threat, coupled with the rampant, and I'd say immature, sense of entitlement to weapons literally designed for war zones has created an enduring toxic stew.
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