* Estebano sips a brandy and start to talk to the people around him.  He had been thinking a lot about this conversation and it led him to talk *

The facts are that many people are scared to say what they think in the Streets.  They value their lives and don’t want to get shot for speaking out of turn – or, perhaps, being accused of it. 

There are many, many interesting things happening right now in this thing.  But they aren’t getting talked about.  Bodyguards are getting wacked left, right and centre, or at least they were.  High value hits are getting placed.  And what are people saying in the Streets?  Nothing...

We need a change in culture.  The leaders of this thing should encourage and enable free speech.  People should be allowed to voice an opinion, Hell even disagree, in public without fear of getting their city/crew wiped out.  I know the nature of the organisation that we are all reputed to work for – it isn’t a democracy.  But everyone enjoys a good argument and everyone enjoys a good debate.  And if people get so wound up they’re willing to shoot each other – then I think that’s OK.  But it’s a duel, not a war.

The leaders of this thing should talk and come to an understanding of sorts.  If one member argue with a member from another family, hey, it’s personal; not business.  They should be allowed to sort it out themselves.

And the leaders of this thing shouldn’t ban members from taking part in discussions.  A guide to etiquette would be a good start.

Your thoughts...?

I agree, freedom of speech is a powerful right that we all have... but we all know that to have such a right must be exercised with responsibility.

I think the beef is more with the fact that some people take freedom of speech as an opportunity to insult others and simply abuse the right. It must be something we all show respect and we should put our views across in an organised manner. We are not street thugs or hood-looms that pretend to take offense at being looked at the wrong way. We are an organised crime syndicate with business and money making priorities.

Finding a balance between initiating and controlling our freedom of speech and going too far by making blatant, rash insults at one another is a skill not practiced by many who walk in our cities.

If you can exercise your right to voice your opinions in a professional, shameless and respectful manner, then you can and will be heard.

Maybe somethings are better left unspoken...

Omerta is a powerful thing.

@JumpinJackFlash

You just proved my point.  Did you read (and understand) the speech?

You said it yourself...this thing of ours isn't a democracy. In a democracy, you're entitled to speak your mind publicly. However, why speak about things that dont concern us? You never hear of wiseguys talking about matters that are solely of our Bosses. Would you like it if your bodyguards were being taken out and everybody on the street was talking about it?

No. You would want to find out whats going on first instead of going on the street and saying 'Who the hell took out my bodyguards'.

We all have our place in this thing of ours. Sometimes, its better to stay there, keep your mouth shut, and mind your own business.

Who's talking about breaking Omerta?  No-one knows anything and, by the way, some very high ranking people *have* already talked about their BGs being taken out.  But no-one knows why and, presumably, people are too scared to offer opinions.

No, we're not a democracy - but to have healthy discussions on the Streets, people need a certain amount of latitude.  I don't think that this latitude exists at the moment.  And I view this as a negative.

Free speech?  No such thing.  You can learn a lot by listening to what Jack has said.  To the government, you may have free speech, and able to say what you want and not be arrested or your "rights" violated.  Great.  We're not going to arrest you.  But we will take care of any problems we consider to violate our "laws."  And that, sometimes, can include speaking out of turn.

Now, I am one to encourage people to come out here and be involved in healthy debate.  That's great.  But I am also one to discourage discussing family business.

And last - regarding the issues you addressed: bg's being wacked, hits being posted:  I've heard plenty of discussion about it.  And there's obviously been a lot more discussion about it.  Just not in public.  And I see no need to bring it public.

Consider this:  The leaders come out here - because of pressure to have a public presence - and address how they're going to handle the BG issue (if the issue persists).  Who do you think is listening to that conversation? 

Mr Paxton

With all due respect, and I mean with sincerely, I think you’re missing the point.  People complain that the Streets are quiet – yet the Streets have been the cause of many killings.  So people are scared.  OK, I take your point about who will be listening to stories of dead bodyguards – but talking about the *why* won’t necessarily give anything away to those listening about *how” a response is going to be formulated.

We come back to some basics.  People talk in the streets.  People die for this talk.  Someone coming out and saying “that Godfather should be shot” will, of course, be killed.  But people disagreeing, like we are, should be safe to say so.  I’d go as far as to say that some people should be able to register disagreement with choices of CL

I think someone has misunderstood my point.

Let me get this straight. Omerta is a powerful thing and keeps this business running. Minding your own business and knowing your place is sheer law. It is a common law not to divulge private information past the influence of your own family. Everyone should know that, because there really is only one way out if you choose to shoot your mouth off and jeopardize the safety of fellow mafioso.

 I am BY NO MEANS encouraging the illusion that the streets are not bound by guidelines on what should or shouldn't be said. I was under the impression this speech was bringing the issue that a case cannot be raised in a dignified manner concerning this thing of ours.

I'll say what I said last time I spoke. Responsibility is needed when you want to voice something on the streets- but use your fucking brain. If it is giving away information that should be disclosed then you are not being responsible with your mouth. Best to keep it shut in that case.

I really wouldn't have expected this to be such an issue...

youre welcome  to speak your mind about anything you desire but always keep in mind that someone more powerful than you may not like what youve got to say and it could lead to problems. the real key is just to think before you speak.

This topic gets rehashed more times than I have hot dinners, but whilst i'm here I agree with Andrew_Paxton. There's a saying 'you don't air you're dirty linen in public', especially you're tidy whities after a heavy night on the curry washed down with some of the black amber nectar

You mention family members should be able to slug it out in public without any reprussions, why not go one step further and have a dawn shoot out to see who has the quickest draw.

Consider the bigger picture, how doe's that reflect on that person's family? what perception will other families will have? you say its personal and not business, except it isn't. Think of the Butterfly Effect, there has been numerous occassions that the small actions of one person, a mis-quote from someone has led to the downfall of that family, god even a whole city. It's completely unrealistic to expect two men to sort out their differences so publicly without any ill feelings afterwards

Agreed that there should be more stimulating debate and discussions. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying we should all play nicely together, holding hands and skipping down the streets. I only like to do that when Grif lets me out of my cage. Messiah touched on responsibily, which is absolutely right. Be responsible for you're actions and don't say anything that will make you or you're family look like a tard

I don't believe people are scared of talking in the streets, I just believe too many people have become set in their ways and are happy to listen in from afar. And as much as I hope otherwise, topic after topic on the subject isn't going to change that mindset

"Think of the Butterfly Effect, there has been numerous occassions that the small actions of one person, a mis-quote from someone has led to the downfall of that family, god even a whole city. It's completely unrealistic to expect two men to sort out their differences so publicly without any ill feelings afterwards"

This is exactly my point - is this right?  It has led to a stifling of debate, no?

This was just brought to my attention - looks like someone dislikes what I have to say!

Aug 26, '11 13:58 Anonymous Estebano $100,000 Kuklinski Clone (Get Auth) (Buy off)

$100,000.. obviously someone with sewn up pockets

First off, every time someone disputes your point all you do is put some incorrect spin on it or say they missed the point to try to prove your point without stating how it supports your point. That's not a discussion, that's just you putting a play on words which is both offensive to some and misleading to others.

Secondly, your point is that there should be a way to have an open debate in the streets without real consequences. That will never happen, ever. Please just listen to everyone whose commented on this. There will be consequences no matter what the situation is. It's the mafia so there will always be consequences and that's why the people you say are scared to speak are actually wisely avoiding negative attention which you are currently attracting.

Finally, if you keep drinking brandy (I didn't place the hit) and doing other things like Kuklinski in his exact wording, people are going to think you're a clone (which I personally believe you might be).

My opinion is this: If you want to discuss politics and happenenings of this thing and you are NOT in a position to do so in a public setting, you should a) keep quiet until you have earned the ability to speak out or b) keep your discussions to private coffee shop conversations. Still, options A and B could still put you in the grave. 

You don't want lowly thugs like myself coming to the streets, standing on a crate and rambling away as if I know what the thoughts of the city heads are/were. Merely speculating on the Whats Whos Whys in a public manner could offend the wrong city/family/person and get a bullet in your brain. How is that so hard to understand?

And as for your comment on letting members fight it out in the streets...as already mentioned, how would that reflect on the family? The perception would be that Crewleader JoeSchmo can't control his idiot member(s). We know all too well that if a CL fails to control his own hen, he will be replaced - violently.

The idea is bad all around. Sure, we all enjoy discussing the what-if's and why's of what happens/happened in this thing of ours. Let's face it, it's juicy. But you say the wrong thing to the wrong person, you're gonna find yourself in the Obits no matter if you were discussing events in a coffee shop or in the streets. 

Doogle

We all remember well what happened when a CL lost control of his 'hen'.  It chased cock all over the 8 cities.  It led to a new breed to halfman, scared of the demon farmyard birds. 

WhereAmI

* Estebano pours a very large glass of brandy and takes a sip *

Who my parents were are not important; what I say is.  Now, you have actually proved my point - consequences for saying things in the Streets.  No-one, least of all me, is saying that there shouldn't be consequences - but maybe they shouldn't be so harsh for minor points?

*Estebano knocks back another glass of brandy and pours two, offering one to doogle *

WhereAmI, it seems to me that you haven't, unfortunately, understood quite what I'm saying.  I hope this helped. 

Thanks for stopping by.

I actually fully understand what you're saying, I don't agree with what you say, so you believe I'm wrong or don't understand. You believe that there is only one correct opinion, no matter the logic of others. I just said all your doing is spinning words without proof, and you just did exactly that to my quote. You're clearly just trying to start a heated debate, likely Mr Kuklinski's clone/less likely but still possibly someone trying to frame the already hated guy. You just want to see someone buried in a stupid petty quarrel. So keep spinning people's words and making clones, I'm sure that's a quicker way to the top than actually putting in the work to develop everything needed to be a leader.

* Estebano pours WhereAmI an extra large club soda *

You OK, friend?  You seem to be getting angry?