Im sorry, but I just cant sit here and say nothing about this. We all have friends here, people whom we have known for years and years sometimes, and whether we like it or not, sometimes they end up on the wrong side of the fence so to speak. And sometimes they do things through their characters account that are not the wisest thing to do, eg random wack, go rogue, whatever, the list is endless.

However, do we disown them for their actions? Do we decide that were gonna throw years of friendship away because of something they did. Well I gotta say no.

Which brings me finally to my point. You know people used to always say, if you dont like how things are run, rank up and do something about it. But it seems to me that when someone now decides to do this that they not only condemn themselves now by their actions, but they also condemn any friend that posts any kind of friendly eulogy on their gravestone. Am I the only one that sees this as wrong?

A funeral is a place of respect, thats what Ive always been thought. Its a place where friends and family can come and gather and say their last words to their fallen friend. Whether that friend be Attila the Hun or EvilClown, their friends should have the right to come and wish them farewell or lay a rose at their coffin or whatever as long as they say their final peace with some kind of respect.

This latest craze of KILLING off the friends of people who fuck up is nothing short of a fucking disgrace. It boils my blood to see good men killed for doing nothing more than sending their friend off with good wishes. Yes you may say, its a public place, people can see what they right. FUNERALS ARE A PRIVATE AFFAIR in most cases, where friends and family can come and say whatever the fuck they want to their fallen comrade. Its not like theyre standing in the street shouting their support from the rooftops.

This has NEVER been a problem here before, so why the fuck is it a problem now? People are whispering their discontent but yet nobody says a thing. Come on people, waken up and look around, and stop being so anal retentive.

You do not have to disown the friend; but your character should disown theirs. Funerals are in-character, and anything posted in a funeral reflects up your current character.

It was, at one time, just the opposite.

The gravesite was the one place where people could say whatever they needed to say in times of grief.

We used to kill for disrespecting the dead but never did we punish anyone saying their final words to a loved one.

These days, people will look for any reason they'd like to drop someone. If they're on the strong side, why not? Quite honestly, when there's a monopoly on murder, and people can be picked off without a response, how much "reason" would one need to kill someone? You step on one toe and your life could end. Apparently, there were some toes at the funeral you attended.

im affraid to comment.

I totally agree with tarbh.

One of these two deaths was a great friend of mine, Leonidas. I share your opinion that friends and family should say whatever they wish to stay to their deceased. Obviously they aren't going to be rude because, it's their beloved, a long time friend or just a family member.

I don't think its proper of someone with an higher rank to "spy"/"check" funerals to see what other people have wrote. Even if the deceased as gone rogue or did a random wack.

In my opinion, it isn't respect.

Let me see if I understand... someone posts *in character* in a rogue/random wacker/rulebreaker/whatever's funeral praising them and their actions or whatnot, and they're killed for it and there's... difficulty in understanding why that is?

As someone who's been killed for posting in the OOC forum - which, quite frankly, I'm still somewhat disgruntled about - I can completely understand why someone would be shot for something they say *in character*.

If you want to say your peace to your friend after they've died without the fear of retribution, send a mail to their new name, or talk to them on IRC.

It just boggles the mind that, in a society that punishes people for being disrespectful in another's funeral, we have this problem with understanding why praising rogues in their funeral is also bad.

In short: Punished for being friends with someone? No. Punished for praising someone who broke the rules? Yes.

Now, I don't know the specific circumstances that are surrounding this rant, so do I know if your friend praised someone they shouldn't have? No. But I'm also not a leader, and if they saw something they didn't like, well... this is the mafia. Notes saying "Don't do it again" are written on bullets fired into someone's cranium.

"you did what you thought was the right thing to do.

i'm so sorry to see you here...

make sure your son contacts me when he steps into this.

Rest in Peace, my friend."

I fail to see how this is praising or conding his actions in any way whatsoever, but maybe something so complicated simply slips this old pirates' mind.

Again though, Captain, I would like to point out that I am not a leader, let alone his leader. Neither are you, neither is Tarbh, or AllBusiness, or anyone else in this discussion. We do not know the details of what went down. Perhaps there had been warnings before, maybe he was on his last chance, maybe SpuffWaffle is more sensitive to these things than you or I are.

That is why this conversation is irresponsible, at best. Labeling at as "Oh people are getting killed just because of who their friends are" is patently false - just ask any of MY friends who are, in fact, still alive. Funerals are IN CHARACTER and that needs to be remembered.

Quite frankly, I think that anyone who posts in the funeral of a rogue should be shot, regardless of whether they were praising them or damning them. Roguing is an act of selfishness and attention-seeking, and the best way to combat that is to deny someone that same attention, let them fall into anonymity.

So what do I call killing someone for posting in the funeral of a rogue? A good start.

Aye very true, I do suppose it would be best to just message them on IRC or message their next account. Also, touche on that one, we do not know the whole story.

I gotta agree with Captain on this one, where is the line drawn here. There is a HUGE difference between someone openly praising/supporting a rogue in public and saying that they thought they had their mind made up and there was no stopping what they did. I fail to see how this is condoning or supporting a rogue. Supporting a rogue in my opinion is being his prowacker, finding him targets, leaking him information etc.

Attending his funeral is not and should never be a crime in my eyes. I mean get real here about this. Are we gonna be wacked now for saying Rest in Peace? Or 'You were a good guy, hope you come back again'. I really dont believe simply attending ANY funeral should result in death.

I know the full story.

DWL strikes again.

Apparantly you can also get wacked for having an IRC opinion. Seriously, is this really the direction that this game has gone in, im sick to my stomach.

/me pukes up in disgust

No need to throw me out, I know where the door is.

Shocking truth: information gathered from any source can and will be used against you if it is deemed to reflect your current characters opinion. Every IRC channel, skype, ventrilo, walking down the street and are overheard by another person, are all places where in-game information can be sourced. Because distinguishing between war plans and harmless gossip is left up to the person receiving the information. Don't expect leniency in a mafia game when the decision comes to "shoot him now or maybe he won't wreck one or more of my members months of hard work." Politics, power, and paranoia are all connected to leadership in this game, and quite frankly, it's fairly restrained from where it could be.

Next time, don't make it appear like you're going to snap and rogue yourself (or allow for that interpretation). And don't assume your interpretation is how others will interpret. Like this post, and how it will get interpreted completely 180 degrees from what I intend it to say.

This isn't a debate...this was made to spark outrage in the community. It's not about what you speak on...it's about how you fucking do it. Choosing to be confrontational with your words...leads to confrontation. People get shot over that shit.

[/obvious]

Isnt OOC by its very nature OUT OF CHARACTER? Like, last time I checked this was a game, at least it used to be. Maybe Im just too old school to be around here any more. I would have imagined that the OOC channels were somewhere where you COULD vent your frustrations etc about how you felt the game was going or whatever. No matter, lesson learned. Its obvious that if opinions in real life from all sources reflect on your players life, then there are people here that takes this game far too seriously. It also shows me that no matter how hard you work for your family and city, you are nothing here only another Success message.

Nickje is a hard working, easy going, loyal friend of mine. He did not deserve death over and opinion. I will always remain disgusted by this.

I thought IRC was also brought into the equation. Ever since I've been here it hadn't mattered where you spoke your opinion...rather how you spoke it. Opinions will always differ on the subject apparently.

Posting something in OOC can still earn you frowns that translate into the game...human fucking nature...whether it's supposed to be that way or not. It's the main reason you don't act confrontational with your topic.

I am really disguted by what happend. Killing people for attending a funeral and killing them in their sleep without even talking to them about it...? I can only see this as an action from a bunch of cowards.

I must agree with CaptainBubbleBeard. I cannot see any support in Ozan's words either.

To me he only said farewell to a very good friend - nothing less, nothing more.

Obviously that is not allowed anymore these days.

Be careful whom's funeral you visit, people! And be careful with your words in there.

Fact - people are affraid to visit Ozan's funeral now already...

Fucking pathetic!

I visited Ozan's funeral, GRHS.

I agree with CM_Punk  on if one were praising a rogue/random wacker etc at their funeral it would be foolish for them to think they would walk out alive as CLs need to act out to protect their families against other threats..  Respect is everything in this world, but i dont agree with been killed for just saying goodbye to a dear friend.  I personally dont see how that statement praised the deceased in any way for his actions..

Its the intent behind the words that should have more weight