As Pariso says a crew-leader could be "the best and most inspirational leader their family could wish for".. I honestly don't know jizz about your family and I know that you know jack about my family. The fact that my crew-leader might not come to the streets could well possibly be because he's.... leading. Or the fact that he's looking after his family. Sure, I would love to see my leader come out to the streets once in a while. But i've been with Batty, for many, many, generations and the fact that he doesn't come out to the streets surely doesn't make him anonymous. He could well be an active member in the IRC. Or every CL knows about him because their constantly mob-mailing each-other. I don't know but it's a possibility. You haven't thought about. The streets isn't the only form of communication. The fact that he has a bold-suit doesn't well mean that he has to come out to the streets and do a daily-report on when the next NPM is going to die. Or how much tribute he earned in the last hour. Do you know why? Because it's not your business.. Heck, it's not even my business to know how much he's earning.. I've never asked him and I never will because of respect. Something, that you've completely thrown out the window.

Now, some of the other leaders here have completely under-read what you've said about going after Roman. And I have read and understood everything you've had to say so far. The fact that your pretty much calling other CL's pussy because their not going after Roman well that's completely stupid. For all you and I know both our cities could have a really good bond in business. Maybe my GF and your GF could be really good mates. I don't know. But that doesn't mean that we're pussy. Infact, it makes complete sense. Everyone, knows that Roman has a beast of a gun and could well be in the hundreds with his BG's.. Or he could only have 100. But no-one wants to put their city and family at risk. Which is well... what a CL is supposed to do. Who knows, I could have a gun which could take out Roman but why aren't I trying my luck. Because I don't want to put my family at risk. My city at risk. 

I highly doubt that anyone will go after Roman not because everyone's scared of him but because he's a pretty darn good leader. Not only does he look out for his city in terms of protection but because he looks for the better of interests for his city. It could be in terms of business or coming up with a better form of way of increasing their relationship with each-other. But at the end of the day, instead of calling out other leaders to possibly try out their luck will possibly achieve anything. If a CL right now, pops a shot at your GF and fails it'll mean war. War that could possibly kill your friends and yourself. I hope that no-one thinks of the idea and this stays as a discussion and not in to an  escalating problem. 

In Conclusion, Interesting discussion you've brought up. Once Again.

~Salvatore~

Abdul comes from the alley sporting his early 1900s sandles and galabiyyas.

Abdul smiles a sneaky grin at the number of Americans who have populated the blvd...

One day I shall sho you Amerdicons how to lite fire unda ass. For now Chuckle done good job, my friendddds!

P.S. Chuckle and Jono for auth!

Abdul leaves heading toward the local armory

I think the simply fact that so many people, including leaders and a Godfather, are pissed off at what Chuckle said... and yet Chuckle is still alive... really is just an illustration of his point.

CM_Punk - durr, are you soft in the head?  AlanShearer is dead.  And Chuckle is alive ONLY because of his very high profile and standing within Chicago!  If some uknown had said what he did, that unknown would be dead.

Kuku, here are some crayons. Go... color something. This is a discussion for adults, you'll be welcomed to join in in around eighteen years.

CM_Punk, your comments were inane and pointless.  You can't engage with the valid point that I made so you demean yourself with this idiocy.  

Pathetic.

I find this a very hard speech to participate in, with my role in Chicago laid out in bold. My loyalty to Roman is unwavering and my position in our community is limited to what my Godfather chooses I do. Being a CL in itself does not grant me the right to dictate who lives, who dies and what ideas are implemented in the city. I can suggest ideas, of course I can, but that is my limit. The whole idea and concept of loyalty will always mean that there will only ever be a maximum of 8 people who can change how things are ran - the leaders of the cities. Sometimes this does not follow, but an expression that I've heard many a time reinforced about my behaviour is that "the hammer that sticks out gets nailed." And when I say nailed, I don't mean in a Bob Liar kind of way.

Nobody wants to die, and that fear has guided everyone into a cul-de-sac like a shepherd guiding sheep back into their pen. Chuckle, your point of views are always agreeable with me, it's not very often I find myself able to disagree with things you say. With that in mind, I think there are more factors that people consider when the concept of going rogue crosses their mind.

"Timing is crucial", you'll hear them say as they procrastinate. The people who may have the power to change things hesitate just long enough for them to decide against it under the pretence that they "want to be sure" so they'll delay it a few more days. Repeatedly. I imagine people regularly consider the idea of shooting some people and making a name for themselves, but it is fear of failure and the retribution of failure that will ensure this trend continues. The idea of putting months and months of hard work in to get to a point where there is a slither of a chance they can do it, the possibility of success, only to fail and die? That's enough to put most people back in their box and nail the lid shut.

Those who are in the position to make changes and such may be afraid of stepping on the wrong person's toes and overstepping the boundaries that you mentioned. Except, with things as they are, they believe that the next mistake made will cause that city's death. It becomes a case of stalemate, where all of the smaller cities just want to keep themselves out of sight and out of mind. Yes, perhaps they wont make a name for themselves yet, but the more they kick up and bring themselves into the eyeline of the big guns, the more likely they are to be shot down for overstepping the mark. Unlike you, most people don't want to paint crosshairs on their own forehead. They say death is bad for business, your own death tends to hinder the business you can do too.

And when I say "The hammer that sticks out gets nailed", I mean the nail that sticks out gets hammered. I flipped that shit. Words don't control me. Sue me.

Have you thought that not everything and everyone revolves around you. Maybe not everyone cares if you remember them or not, and that not everyone cares that you don't care... you get this jist

Not everything and everyone revolves around me, no; although a fairly significant number of people seem to do so and on occasion it certainly feels like I'm holding up the Streets on my own with only the skeletal, malformed, child-like arms of Kuklinski for support. Despite that, I'm not talking about whether I'll individually remember people, because honestly that ship was sailing out of the docks before any of those leaders even knew we lived by the sea. Nobody has to care whether I remember them, but I'm sure some people probably would like me to. Similarly, I'm sure some people wouldn't give me a second thought as they milled around their HQ. The problem for them is that I am representative of the population as a whole and I truly believe that when we all get our cement shoes, the only thing we have to leave behind is our legacy. What will yours be? Are you happy with it? Could it be better? Those are the questions to consider, because collectively as a community, and not just singularly as me, people will forget those who do nothing with their time in the spotlight.

But then again I don't have eyes into their HQ and neither do you. They could be the best and most inspirational leader their family could wish for.... who knows. Just because their not sending you a daily memo of their activity and bowel movements, doesn't mean they'll vanish into anonymity, to you maybe. Certainly not to the people who actually matter

The best and most inspirational leaders have an impact on MafiaReturns. Whether they want to pretend they are in this category because to a handful of people, for awhile, they were considered wonderful, is entirely their decision. However, I would consider that akin to closing my eyes, putting my fingers in my ears and going "LALALALALALALALALALA" whilst everyone else tries to shatter the illusion. Those people will vanish into anonymity, they will have no recognised legacy and they will be forgotten. They don't need to send me a daily memo, they need to do something. I don't need eyes in their HQ, because if they haven't done something that impacts on MafiaReturns in some way other than by being alive, then they haven't done anything worth doing.

Another point that seems to have been misinterpreted in all this is that I'm not saying "all come to the Streets and speak all the time". I'm saying to do something. That doesn't necessarily have to be to tell a story every day, it just has to be something. It can be an action. It can be a decision. It can be a rule. It can be a method. It can be anything, provided that it is something! The people most in a position to do something are the leaders, because they are the ones holding the paintbrushes, but instead of trying to paint a picture, they are just looking at the blank canvas and admiring the view. Those who watch the world go by will be forgotten, whilst those who change it or have an impact on it will live forever in the memory of those who walk the Streets after them.

Being a CL in itself does not grant me the right to dictate who lives, who dies and what ideas are implemented in the city. I can suggest ideas, of course I can, but that is my limit. The whole idea and concept of loyalty will always mean that there will only ever be a maximum of 8 people who can change how things are ran - the leaders of the cities.

There is plenty that you can do as a leader without being a Godfather. Part of being a leader is demonstrating that you can actually lead and encompassed within that is making your own decisions and enacting your own policies, for your family. They need not be for all of Chicago, but if you did something different, who knows how Roman would react? Maybe he would mandate it as common practice for the entire city and if he did, then you have not just made a change, you've made a huge impact. I can point you to a real example of this in Gwarble. He was a leader answerable to a Godfather and he decreed that his family would not steal MIAs from other families or cities. The transcript of that announcement can still be found and the vitriol thrown at him is still there too, but what happened? LA as a whole adopted his policy, then other cities and now every city and family since has followed that rule and they still do today.

An attitude of "the nail that sticks out get hammered" is pretty damning for any leader and lets you hide in Roman's shadow, when you need to be out casting your own. It sounds like the attitude of a follower, waiting for someone to tell them what to do, rather than being prepared to do it for themselves. There is nothing to stop you from doing something with your family, that is the whole point of this. Nobody could accuse you of not doing something, if you actually did something, where as claiming that you can't do something without actually trying to first is criminal.

Also, even if I did accept that being stuck in a city with a Godfather who wouldn't do anything meant that all his leaders got stifled, which I don't, why is nobody out vying for a new city, where they can be the number 1 and making the decisions themselves? We still don't have a Godfather in every city and I can't recall a time when we did, so whilst you might say at any one time there can be only a maximum of 8, we haven't even reached that point. It should follow then, that everyone is fighting tooth and nail to get their hands on the last piece of available real estate and before you say that there are already crews there, we have seen examples of where people have taken cities and become the Godfather of them even without previously being affiliated to those crews. Instead, it seems to me that this is another excuse for lethargy and inertia and it doesn't even apply.

People can do whatever they are capable of getting away before someone bigger and stronger kills them. There are no definitive outcomes to anything, because we are real people, not machines. We make decisions and we make choices. Why don't we start actually making some? Why don't we actually start doing things? You say that people may be afraid of overstepping the boundaries, I say people don't have any conception of where the boundaries even are because they are too frightened to find out. I'm certain that nobody is being choked by a Roman shaped noose and that everyone could do a hell of a lot more than they are right now before they did end up brown bread. Except instead of trying, they start clawing at their necks and making spluttering sounds the second anything other than 'do nothing and survive' is suggested.

That isn't leadership.

~C~

I haven’t been around here for too long, but as someone who’s able to look upon this crop of criticism with a fresh pair of eyes, devoid of the years of tradition and ritual that most of you are likely buried under, i have to say, this whole “it’s up to the leaders to produce content to entertain us” is a ridiculous expectation - just the idea of a high ranking mob boss being court jester to a group of people who enjoy playing dress up is hilarious to me.

Being devoid of the years of tradition and ritual allowing a fresh perspective is great; completely missing the point is not. I am not advocating anyone becomes a court jester, I'm advocating they do something with the opportunity they have. I don't know how many more times I can say that, or how I can make it any clearer.

~C~

Crew leaders aside which are the ones being targeted here. I'd ask if everybody else is happy with the legacy thier building. Yes the crew leaders signed up for the job and are the ones to generally set the standards. But everybody has the ability, with a bit of nouse to be able to drive for change. They may not be the ones who necessarily press the big shiny green button at the end of it. But they can be just as influential as the next man. It doesn't have to be a grand gesture, it can be anything, is their something you'd do differently? if so, set yourself apart. Go out on a limb. Bold suit or not

Citys are expanding at an increasing rate, business is booming, there seems to be relative harmony across our cities. Has this help breed an environment of contentedness. A leaders priority is always going to be to their family and city and will put their wellbeing first, rightly so. Does their possible reputation to the masses make them any less of an effective leader, of course not. Why would people drive for change when they've never had it so good. Personally speaking, if Chuckles speech has done anything, it's made me sit up again and look at things in my peripheral vision outside of my own comfort zone and think 'how can I make it even better than it is now?'

As a great man will inevitably say 'The future belongs to those who see possibilites before they become the obvious'

Chuckle, you have some valid points. When my relatives first came to these shores there were seven or maybe eight bold suits in the whole game then, now some cities have that number beat. I can still name half of those leaders. Now, I could name five of todays CL's? Possibly? Out of the however many there are...

But back then if you had a Bold suit you earned I mean REALLY earned it. I am not saying that those in bold nowadays didnt earn it just comes alot easier than it used to. Like someone stated previously if you had the opportunity to be authed back in the day they obviously thought you could stand out above the rest. It seems now a lot of authing is being done just for the hell of it, everyday it seems there are two new crews setting up. I would also agree and say that 90 % of the CL's arent making the most of their opportunity, but so much judgement is passed on how well you lead just on how often they voice themselves in the streets. Do I believe that one of the many attributes you have to have to be a CL is being heard in the streets? Yes. Do I think it should hold anyone back from not being authed? No. I have refrained from speaking publicaly because quite frankly half what is being said out here is non sense. Some people might feel the same way others may fear the repurcussions of saying the wrong thing, and the list goes on.

Perhaps I am late in this engaging dispute, but I have been busy and have only had time now to read and recollect my thoughts about your words.

What you say is not completely incorrect.  But what you said is also a lot easier said than done.  Everyone can tell you, don’t complain if you are discontent with the current situation.  Be the change you wish to see.  But really, “changing” the current “status quo” is nearly impossible.  

Take your example of Roman, everyone waiting for him to retire.  Yes maybe that’s true.  It’s also probably true that if someone took Roman out it would be historical and probably remembered throughout the ages.  But you also after to consider what it would actually take to remove Roman’s crown.   My point is, everyone is “sitting around waiting for Roman to retire” because if they tried to remove his crown they would just simply never see the light of day again.  How will this make them any more memorable if the chances of taking out the current king of the universe when it is close to nothing?  It would simply be a quick wipe out by Roman and quickly forgotten.  What Roman has built took years, and it would take years to build something comparable to his forces. 

Another flaw I see is what you ask of the masses is that they do something exceptional to be remembered.  If everyone did something exceptional, then it wouldn’t be exceptional would it?  There will ALWAYS be people who are remembered and people who are forgotten.   And today we have the few exception individuals and plenty of individuals who are simply mediocre. 

One last thing that I perceive as a flaw is that you called the masses “cowards” for letting Roman live this long.  This is taking away from Roman’s achievements.  In my opinion, no one “let” Roman live this long.  I believe Roman has lived this long because in his early days his political astuteness has allowed him to make the right connections and push the right buttons and not make him “expendable” by other leaders.  Not to mention, I think I read somewhere that when Roman was born he already had 220 bodyguards following him everywhere he went (during those days that was a considerably amount of bodyguards).   Yes as he built up the Roman empire, people feared opposing him because of the power he wielded.  But he intelligently built what he has today, nobody “let” him have it.

Actually as I was finalzing my response, I do have one more thing that I find extremely unfitting.  The title of your poster is terrible.  I did not read this because I was "bored as fuck."  I read this because it was an interesting read that was worth my while.

i didnt take the time to read through everyone, so excuse me if my comments arent as precise on the conversation as others. from this discussion, i think chuckle is suggesting people should set up with desire. come to this world wanting to be the best, not just hoping not to be the worst. in chuckle's mind, i guess how much people remember you makes you the best, but that doesnt have to be the case.
if i could add to this discussion, i just think there isnt much of a drive left for people. that lack of drive has slowed down our "inertia", and now it takes major pushes to get us moving again.

then again, this could just be an attempt by chuckle to get us to make moves, knowing his city would be the last one standing, and thus the most powerful when the dust settles. maybe just maybe;]

Michael is walking down the street singing Searching for my love when he hears Carinae speaking.

"I wonder, I wonder why, you had to leave me this way. I'm sorry darlin' that I made you criyyy. Forgive me love for the things I've done, to you. Come on on, give me one more try."

Michael feels eyes on him and stops singing, he clears his throat and begins.

Carinae, this is the land of opportunity, America. I came here not long ago from Eire for the opportunity to become something. Evidently I have become "something" as I am representing The Blood Hound Gang. The lack of drive comes with the ability to make money so easily from the Seven-eleven down the road or the old lady that holds that purse not tight enough. There's not much of a police force in any cities, nor is there a DA, DEA, FBI, or any type of Acronym that has course to put away Mafiosi like you and I away. Then, there isn't in real wars. Just take downs while one city is asleep. Its rather puny but hey, that's the way these streets are now days. Adapt or die! Simple as that. So, to all those that cry Nostalgia, those days are over my friends. Just strive to do your best with what you get. You may get 50+ BG's or none at all. Regardless, things will improve if you keep your head down and do your work. The logic that are leaders are neglectful to the streets may or may not be true. But it takes a lot to run a crew, to go into the streets and read the countless rhetoric stories, droned out announcements, or illogical conversations. The only sense of "entertainment", and forgive me saying this, is from Mr.Kuklinski. I mean, we are doing so poorly we must have a man come to the streets every other day spewing bullshit? I suggest, the content of the streets gets reformed first, then people begin gracing them once again. If you keep on with the RDI's there wont be a presence in the streets. But enough of my blabbering.

Michael tips his hat to any listener that took their time to listen to his RDI and walks away singing again

"Searching, Searching for my baby, I'm searching for my love. I'm searching for the one I adore
If I find her, you know I will."