Hello everyone,

Building off of what IzzyCreamcheese stated earlier, I have a few additional announcements to make. I want you all to know that we love our time with MafiaReturns, and we genuinely hope you enjoy the product as much as we do.

That said, MafiaReturns is no longer Beta. It is a live game, and the features that are currently in the game will for the most part remain static far into the future of MafiaReturns. We are taking the game out of Beta so that we work on the new project more efficiently.

To maximize our allotted hours of technical work on MafiaReturns, the upper staffers (with the exception of just helpdesk) will no longer be fielding questions or comments regarding MafiaReturns via Mobmail, the forums, or IRC. We value your input, and absolutely want you to continue providing it to our HelpDeskers. Those comments, questions, or bug reports will be forwarded on to Kendra and Belle who will then pass along anything that Squishy or myself need to know.

If we are in IRC talking, it will be purely social, please do not raise game issues with us and go through the proper avenues. We would very much love to continue enjoying you all as people!

As Squishy said, the time for us to remove ourselves from the gameplay aspect of MafiaReturns and dive into a new project is necessary right now. We truly want for you all to be able to play this game the way you'd like. Unfortunately, when features are banned from use it can cost us future revenue but there are many hidden costs as well. The time taken to code, test, and implement those features are rarely taken into consideration.

You all absolutely deserve to enjoy the game as you'd like to play it, but we also deserve to develop the game we would like. We just recognize the two are not always going to be mutually exclusive.

Per the designated schedule going forward we will take all the comments, questions, and bug reports from Kendra or Belle, and handle/answer those concerns through these two Administrators. They will then disseminate the information to HelpDesk so they can pass it along from there.

Please understand if there are minor bugs and we take longer to fix them, it is not at all something we intend. For our productivity to reach the levels that we need to get a new game done, we can't jump back and forth between the two games during unscheduled times. Needless to say if it is a terrible bug that would jeopardize the work of our players we will address it as quickly as possible. However, we are going to attempt to keep our maintenance on MafiaReturns to a scheduled basis.

In addition to all of this, Squishy and myself will no longer be posting in the forums. Any messages we need to send out will be done by Kendra and Belle. Many of you want us completely separated from the gameplay, and although MafiaReturns has been our pride and joy for so many years, it is something we need to adhere to.

Over the next few weeks, we will be changing the structure of HelpDesk and our staff. Please be patient while we get everything situated.

We are excited to not only move forward with our new game, but also genuinely look forward to seeing you all continue to enjoy MafiaReturns. Thank you for the memories you've given us so far, and those that you'll make with MafiaReturns in the future.

Just curious but if mafiareturns is now considered a live game and no longer beta does this mean V2 is going to hit a dead end?

This is a sad state of affairs. The back bones of our society are essentially removing themselves from avaliability and putting their eggs towards a new project. Despite the fact that Ive only been here for just over two years, I'm very vested into this game and I dont like seeing this occur. Brian, Scott, and the entire admin/coder team only have our best interest at heart, seeing them basically throw in white towel and giving into this bullshit ban on npms. This ban will only hurt the game down the road, hopefully sooner than later the 'godfather' concil will realize this.

To Scott and Brian, thank you for everything. I'm one of the biggest fans you guys have and I appreciate all that you do.

At what point during Billys speech did you interprete as 'throwing in the white towel'. It seems they are simply shifting their prioritys over to M2

This "bullshit ban" is for the integrity of the game, to raise the standards of game play. For far too long it has been money driven which has removed people from the enjoyment aspect of why we're all here in the first place

Not all game features are in the best interest of playing the game, agreed they help oil the wheels in the background. I would hope that with theserulings brought in by the council, a lot more new players will enjoy the experience past the point of being a click monkey, and will inferrably stick around past a first account to invest more time, money and feedback that NPMs never could

Jax

I don't think it is right that the blame for this is being placed at the door of some players, because something that seems to have been overlooked is that nobody on the Godfather Council did anything wrong.

If you leave things open for user interpretation, then they will interpret them as they see fit. If it is within their control and can be managed through the use of their in-game power, then they are able to do so as a result of how the Administrators have coded the game. It is one of the founding principles of the game, that power dictates how things operate.

JesseJames didn't code the game, AlabamaWorley didn't code the game and SuperX didn't code the game. Nobody other than the Administrative team have coded the game or implemented features, which are then placed the users' discretion to use or not use. If it is not within player control and it is coded into the game as mandatory, then they cannot exercise their in-game power to manage the use of them. They are then not able to dictate the use of any feature that is necessary, because the Administrators make it so. Therefore, if something is fundamental to the functionality of the game, why the hell is that at player discretion to be messed with? I know I don't want to do any lasting damage to this and as a player I shouldn't have that option to. No player should.

This game is pitched as essentially an open world role-playing game where you can do anything within the rules of the game. It is a world where you are governed by the power you can wield, both directly and indirectly, in order to see the world shaped as you would like it to be shaped. The action is yours, the reaction is not. That is the advertising slogan of the game, which the Godfather Council followed. They took actions that are 100% within the rules of the game and are being painted as the villains of this piece by some people, for no other reason than they played the game as allowed by those who made it. They played the Administrators game, by the Administrators rules. They did nothing wrong.

It was the Administrators who made NPMs optional, it was the Administrators who allowed users to utilise their in-game power to make in-game decisions in regards to them and it was the Administrators who have taken these steps. The NPM feature has been rejected by the majority of users since its initial inception and even the announcement thread received more negative feedback than positive. If the users then aren't allowed to remove NPMs, which they as a majority do not like, then why not code them as mandatory? Why not code 10 credits to leave every crewleader's account? Code things that will keep the game running because at no point in time did the Godfather Council conspire to ruin, jeopardise or otherwise harm the game. It is wrong to dress something up as optional and at user discretion to be used when it isn't. If something is essential to the game, make it unable to be altered.

The Administrators decision to spend less time on MafiaReturns and to remove the game from beta is completely their own decision. These things are not the fault of the Godfather Council, as they are obviously a group of characters playing their roles within the game as they chose to and are allowed to by the rules of the game. They are Godfathers looking out for the interests of their families; they aren't players worried about the long term financial stability of the game. They are in-game characters making in-game decisions. This is the whole point of differentiating between players and Administrators; players play the game and Administrators administer it.

I am excited to see the Administrators move forward with their new game and hope it is as great as MafiaReturns continues to be.

~G~rin.

This is 6 people telling a whole user base what they can't do in terms of purchasing game add-ons, that seems a little wrong to me. As we all know, just because you can do some things doesn't mean you should.

If it's for the betterment of the game itself, why the fuck would you try and halt that? Honestly?

If it takes incentives like NPMs to bring in a good amount to keep the game running smoothly (now & in the future) why would you want to stop it? You think it's not good for the game? It's very good for the game as a whole.

I fail to see the logic behind the ban other than "we can, so we will".

I've kept my mouth shut thusfar, because to be quite honest I figured some of these new "rules" would be ammended by now.  Well that and I didn't want to come out here and look as though I was speaking against any of the current leaders, especially my Godfather Jesse but I have listened to about every speach in the streets and even those on OOC blvd.

NPCs?  Don't like them, probably wouldn't use the credits om them myself if I were crew leader as I would rather use those credits for incentives for my "real mobsters", toolbars, and MIAs but that's just me, but If a CL chooses to employ them so then be it.  I would hope said leader would not pick a robot over a real person any day, REGARDLESS if that real person has the potential to become a bump on a log and earn shit compaired to the robot.  Now that being said, do I feel the GFs made a wrong decision or are on the wrong track here?  NO.  They couldn't have known how much of an impact finanicially the game would suffer nor should that have been on their mind at the time.  Earning funds for servers and employees and whatnot are the owners responsibility totally.  BUT perhaps a limit put on the leader would have been a better way then straight out ban of them.  Perhaps, owners can make up the difference elsewhere?  Perhaps bump the toolbars up to 7 credits or something.    All I'm saying is there is room to move here on both sides, players and admins alike.   We can find a common ground.

*excuse me, I meant to say, finding ways to earn the funds for servers and what not*

I beg to differ with you Grin. The Godfather's Council cut the site's income in half with one decision that isn't as tiny as people are trying to make it out to be. Although no one is saying they did something wrong, I do find it a little bit insensitive that they are ok with cutting the income of people that work hard to make this game as amazing as it is. You say the admins were rash in their decision to leave this community and start another one. However, it was the Councils rash decision that has driven them away.

No one has ever forced anyone on this game to buy an npm. So if they are so hated as you claim, WHY are so many of them running around? If YOU don't like them, then don't buy them! It's that simple!!! But taking away the entire site's option to purchase them if they so choose, to continue supporting the admin that we so greatly admire is absolutely ridiculous to me. Nowhere are they going to make up the income that npm's brought in. Nowhere.

Of course they didn't code the game. The coders of the game put a feature into play, an optional feature that they have not forced anyone to use and it was used quite frequently. So I don't understand how absolutely no leader wants them, when almost every leader has them. That makes no sense to me. It's not like you HAVE to buy them to keep up. No one is competing for the most NPM's here. No one is competing in earnings. The only edge it gives where any one crew is competing with another is in numbers. And it's already been proven that the more members (real and NPM) online boost a Durden spawn. So no, it's not all about how the NPM's bring in money. They help smaller crews just starting out boost numbers and yes in the process boost earnings. Are you really faulting a crew for wanting to make money???

Some might say, oh well this is all about money. For me it's about principle. As Izzy has stated before, sure they could make it all about money. They could put in features that would make them lots more money. They could unlimit mia's. They could make it where you could pay a credit to fly in an hour instead of two. But they don't. But in order for the game to be where it is now, that takes a lot of work. A lot of time. If all the coders were out working 40 hour a week jobs, instead of working here, the game would not be what it is. If some people choose not to support the game with their rl cash, that is their choice. If they do not want to use their cash or credits to purchase an NPM, that is their choice. But I do not see how it is in anyone's best interest to take away that option from anyone else.

I am sorry to see that it is affecting player interaction with the higher ups. That was one thing that made this place seem like a community. The owners themselves have always been willing to listen to and interact with the players, both personally and on game related issues. I fear the decisions of less interaction will make this feel less like a community and more like many of the other games that we have all tried to enjoy but failed.

I'm quite sad to see this. In my five years of playing, one of the biggest reasons why I hung around was because the creators and administrators of this game were readily accessible; if we had a problem, it was incredibly reassuring to know that we could be able to talk to the owners directly instead of using a middle man to convey our thoughts or concerns.


Grin, as someone who is personally opposed to the idea of NPM's to begin with, I have accepted them as a necessary evil in order to keep this game running smoothly. I despised the idea when it was introduced, and I still do - however, I can't help but think banning them outright will significantly deteriorate the quality and delay the implementation of new features, (and, as someone who will be on the Player Commission who will be submitting features to the owners, who will then dedicate their hours and scarce revenue towards paying to implement these new features, you should know that this will adversely affect the future of this game going forward.) which, I'm sure we can all agree, isn't in our best interests. The Council overreached and essentially shot the game, and consequently, themselves, in the foot. The excuse that because something is feasibly possible to do in the game that isn't against the rules is fully within the boundaries of your character is a bad one - especially when it directly affects the development and stability of the game we all play.

There is a significant amount of people who oppose the idea of outright banning NPM's - including people who don't even support the idea of NPM's themselves (myself excluded). Aside from that, banning a feature outright (aside from random wacking, or what have you) sets a horrific precedent for the future. If you're worried about having the site overrun with "robots", simply set a monthly quota for each city based on each city's size.

On a side thought, I would suggest that the administrators rethink their position on communication between the users. I would venture that you guys are/were players at heart. You have the unique position of being able to see both sides of the fence, and that's a significant reason why you've had as much support as you've enjoyed over the years. The players were free to talk to you about the game and the response would come from a helpful administrator - and a player.

This simply breaks my heart to see. For so many years we have ALL worked together to build this community. We have hated features, we have loved features, we have had the choice to use them or not to. The "ban" on NPMs is NOT something I, as a user, support. I think it's ridiculous. I think it's unfair to the admin team that has busted their collective asses for so many years to bring this place to where it is today.

Regardless of any personal feelings toward them some may have, they are the backbone of this society. They have taken their passion and combined it with ours to bring forth somewhere that we can call home on the internet. The fact that they are/were so approachable was what made this place special. There were FACES behind the names and we knew them.. Know them, whatever. I cannot believe what a clusterfuck this has become. The fact the administration was hands on and involved with the masses made it so the game suited the people playing it. It made it so the game was adaptable and cared for. We weren't just pawns on a chess board, we were real people that mattered who had opinions that mattered.

I've been here since the start, I can remember when it was just about fun and friends.. We used cheap servers, free servers, anything we could. Then things started coming together where funds opened up. Things changed. We could grow, we could reward the users with credits for their loyalty.. THAT was embraced. Things that have been brought into play have always been something you didn't have to donate for, you could buy credits with game cash as well. THAT kept it fair, no other game I have experienced does that. The administrators put all of the users first. The game became a living creature with endless possibilities of adaptation.

Many of you haven't been here all that long, some of you have been here since the old days of .org and remember the dark days near the end of that "Golden Era" that got us all hooked. Certain administrators had a "fuck 'em" attitude about users, and Izzy.. He didn't. He was all about the users. He listened to them. He was the only one that did. He is someone I was proud to call a friend and someone whom I respect more than I've ever told him. The level of appreciation I feel toward him exceeds that of any other person here. He didn't have to jump on board, he chose to (Ok after a little favour asking and knowledge of his love for the society being used in my favour.. I admit it. I tried to get him hooked.) and he's done wonders for this place. Without his ingenuity and love the game would have died years ago.

Is it really worth crushing the income of the game, saying goodbye to MR in the future because it doesn't pay for itself? Over a few NPMs? Why not just "limit" them beyond the game coded limitations? Why take the CHOICE away from those that don't mind them. I mean after all.. It's their money/credits they are spending, shouldn't they get to choose what they spend it/them on?

Now because of the decisions made by a few users (They didn't take the opinions of the other people that play into account.) we have as a group alienated those that make this place what it is. We have taken what they loved as much as we do and turned it into a job that they don't like. We have taken all their hard work and thrown it in their faces with a big "Fuck you we don't like this.".. I don't like people speaking for me. I feel as if this has happened. The game is done with development. No more growth. No more expansion. It's what it is. Instead of improving on it they are making a "new game". From what I gather by reading these threads, and I pray I am wrong, one that isn't an expansion of MR... Not even M2, which has been worked on for so long that it's painful to think of that work that anubis, mario, enkindle, and Izzy put into it going to waste. (I really hope that this does not put an end to the M2 project. I was looking forward to it.) This action taken by the Godfather Council has effectively killed MR. Without development and funding it will fade away just like other games.

Instead of our wishes, dreams, suggestions, hopes being listened to by a caring staff they'll go unheard as the new game is developed. A game, that will in all likelihood, eliminate Mafia Returns as we know it.

This is the nail in the proverbial coffin. If you thought things were stagnant before, just wait until there's nothing done here for months on end. Do you really think people will stick around? You really think MR will continue to be as "great" as it is? That's like saying the first iPhone was the best and still is.. It's dead technology, and now because of this move by a small group of people that lead our community so is MR. It's not going to continue being great when there's no money to run it and no coders to update/fix/add to it. It will die like the dinosaurs as people CONTINUE to leave.

So really, is it worth it? Is it worth us losing the level of interaction and attention we enjoyed with the coders and administrators? Is it worth it to lose the funding that NPMs and other features generated? Is it worth us just becoming numbers in the eyes of those we have cared about and supported over the years as they put up with our shit?

Had the "Council" not put this into effect we'd still have a growing community, game, and know that we have administrators who care and will take the time to listen to us.. We're not only on the back burner now, we're off the stove completely.

I hope that something can be done to rectify this. I will miss the fun time with Izzy and crew. I will miss the community being brought together by discussions of features, contests, and the community. This place is nothing without the presence of the administrative team. Nothing at all.

Things have been moving rather rapidly this week- I'm still trying to make sense of the many drastic changes and process how I feel about particulars issues.

However, the admin team essentially abandoning the game due to lack of revenue seems like the worst of all possible worlds.

I hate NPMs. Mightily. I railed against their inception and have fought them tooth and claw every step of the way.

But if getting rid of NPMs means getting rid of the game admins and essentially preventing any further development to MR... then give me NPMs. By the goddamn boatload. And I don't believe I'm alone in saying that.

i hope the godfather council continues to let us buy mia's

I agree with Keats.

Is there some other way to reach a happy medium?

For instance - credits are still available.  The option to donate is still available.  I undersand it's a very difficult balance to find, but this message is just so disapointing, I'd just hope that somewhere we can find away to help those who have helped us have so much fun over the years. 

umm, I don't know if my original post got deleted or I just didn't submit or what, but I'll repost so I don't look I like babbling idiot with my correction..

I've kept my mouth shut thus far, because to be quite honest I figured some of these new "rules" would be amended by now.  Well that and I didn't want to come out here and look as though I was speaking against any of the current leaders, especially my Godfather Jesse but I have listened to about every speech in the streets and even those on OOC blvd.

NPCs?  Don't like them, probably wouldn't use the credits myself if I was crew leader as I would rather use those credits for incentives for my "real mobsters", toolbars, and MIAs but that's just me, but If a CL chooses to employ them so then be it.  I would hope said leader would not pick a robot over a real person any day.  REGARDLESS if that real person becomes a bump on a log and earns shit compared to the robot.  Now that being said, do I feel the GFs made a wrong decision or are on the wrong track here?  NO!  They couldn't have known how much of an impact financially the game would suffer nor should that have been on their mind at the time.  Finding ways to earn funds for servers and employees and whatnot are the owners responsibility totally.  Perhaps a limit put on the CLs would have been a better way then straight out ban of them.  Perhaps, owners can make up the difference elsewhere?  Perhaps bump the toolbars up to 7 credits or something.    All I'm saying is there is room to move here on both sides, players and admins alike.   We can find a common ground.

What i struggle to comprehend is this: Surly the removal of npm's by the user base can not be the sole reason for such a bold and if i may, very rash decision.

This decision alone surly can not dictate that the game is not worth the time, and to be blunt if so, then as my friend grin said, it shouldnt have been coded in for it to be used as a user base decision. If npm's are such a source of income for MR, why wasnt this kind of investment protected?

It is a sad day, that i will not deny, yet i feel its very easy to point the fingers towards what a group of players have been allowed to change the course of MR and very unjust.

Question: if the decision is reversed and cl's are now clear to buy credits that are used to buy npm's is your decision then reversed. The game goes back into betta and normal service resumed?

Hurting something that could be toeing a line leads to tough decisions needing to be made. NPMs probably lead to 100s possibly borderline 1K a month alone some months.

How in the hell could the investment be protected? By forcing people to buy 10 of them before being able to run a family? Seriously? This Godfather Council could literally put a ban on anything if they so choose, at this point in time what could the rest of the user base do about it? Not a fucking thing.

When the user base (6 people) is actively doing things to take money out of your business and limiting income for servers, man power and yadda yadda, you gotta do what you gotta do.

There have been a few major changes towards this game from when I first started playing to now. Those include, durdens, MIAs and NPMs. All three of which I strongly was against. But I knew izzy had just made MR his job so an increase in revenue from MR was required. Still didn't change the fact that these changes in my eyes ruined game play. The recent comments and reactions by the admins inregards to the GFC banning NPMs has just strengthen my resolve that we made the best decision.

To the many users who now say they don't agree with the banning of NPMs. Majority of you hate NPMs and say you yourselves wouldn't use them. Well if all of you were in a position of power and decided not to use them then still the game would not have npms. Right now in the GFC all of us strongly disagree with the concept of NPMs and their use. We have all collectively decided that the removal of NPMs is a better choice. Which it is. We have not only made this decision by our own desires but gathered the thoughts of most of our own people. It was a decision by most of the community. Since I was authed I haven't used NPMs and I still don't. I believe my crew has become better for it.

I was truly surprised to see the admins quick response to the banning of NPMs. Give it about a month before you make statements on how such decisions change the game. I normally avoid admins as much as I can, I don't go in such coffeeshops like #divinelunacy because of them purely because I find you are all too emotional. This is a business, when shit goes down and you start losing profit do you give up? NO! You try to figure something to bring your profits back to what they were and more. You don't blame your consumers. You are here to provide your consumers with an exclusive product and you need to make them enjoy it as much as they can. During the reign of Roman we saw countless people being bged, we saw hitters becoming CLs to maintain their bgs, hundreds of NPMs running around and we saw many people who have loved and been around this game for a long time leave because they had enough of the way it was going. I am sure the way roman ran things made a nice profit for the owners of the game but that doesn't change the fact for most of us the game play was ruined. So we stood up and removed what was stopping the game from getting better. Now we have a choice to make things the way we want it just like Roman had the choice to do what he wanted. I think it is disgusting that it would be condemned by admins when players finally work their ass off to get to the top and make their own changes. It was spewed out countless times by admins that if you weren't happy with things then do something about it. Well we did.

Your job is to run a business which is focused on making your consumers happy and provide them with enjoyment. Succeed in that and word would spread and bring more people into the game. No kinds of advertisement beats that of word of mouth. During the reign of Roman we had lost people, people who had stuck in through this game for years. For someone like that to leave you have to see that the game wasn't going well, despite what your profits were telling you. I know for a fact that with these changes now many have returned to the game they once loved. What you owners seem to not understand, which you should as businessman, is as long as your consumers are happy then you will make money. Sure you will have rough patches but that always happens. If you are dedicated to the game then you stick through it.

I run two businesses, one of which is a restaurant. My key goal in my restaurant is to make my customers happy. If they are happy then they tell maybe 1-3 people about it and they come and give my restaurant a chance. If they are not happy they tell 5-10 people. It has taken me nearly 8 months until I finally have started seeing good numbers show up in my restaurant to make my profit margin worth it all. I have had a few times where dishes that I have put on the menu after being tried maybe once or twice were not ordered again. This sadden me because they were good dishes and of course made me money. Did I give up? Did I try and reach out to the community say please try my dish it makes me money? No. I accepted the fact my customers didn't want that dish so instead I brought out a new dish which is now my restaurants specialty and most popular dish.

I believe you admins need to sit down and look at yourselves. This isn't about you, it is about your consumers for they are the ones that make you money. You need to make them happy not us make you happy. I have felt for a long time that you have become more money driven and introduction of such things like NPMs which are obviously just ways to make you money and add no benefit to the game play prove that.

People seem to also forget that we once played this game without NPMs and we all did absolutely fine. I understand the admins need money, but the customer at my restaurant doesn't care about me or my business all they want is an excellent experience worth paying for. That is what you need to provide. If you allowed this place to become more fun like it has since the past few weeks Roman has gone then newer people will more likely stay increasing the population. You already have enough incentives to buy credits, it is already evident that putting money in the game can benefit you greatly, but what you need to do is make people believe this is a great game to play in and is worth burning some cash to stay around longer.

I really would like a detailed explanation of how a crew can become better without using NPMs. I mean be real here for a second. NPMs in no way shape or form should hurt a crew, if your crew became better it's because you pulled your head out and did something, not because you banned NPMs. Put that one to rest.

Do you have a problem with Durdens? MIAs? If not why are "robots" that boost your gun OK but not ones that boost your gun and earn money? They're all supposedly fall backs right?

I've heard NPMs make leaders lazy. Are you fucking kidding me? Maybe it's time people start authing better leaders then, eh? Damn near every problem is user made, accept the blame rather than passing it off.

But if getting rid of NPMs means getting rid of the game admins and essentially preventing any further development to MR... then give me NPMs. By the goddamn boatload. And I don't believe I'm alone in saying that.

 

I agree to this statement with all my heart.