So this is just my thoughts, But I see the posts saying rewards work better than punishment. This is true, However if you do not see being a Hand or a CL as a reward then why are you in that position? The way I see it those who take leadership positions Already receive bonus protection and boosts to our gun. There are the taxes that pay for our BGs and so many other things. 

Now the real thought. If you need incentives to be here and active then you should not be a leader in my belief. For me the reward comes from bringing in new people and watching them grow, it is the fact that I am in one of the highest positions in the game and have so much say in what happens. That only goes up the higher you get so why does a GF or GFC need to be bribed to be here to run the city that they wanted to lead? Real life happens and people have to be less active it makes sense. But that can only go so long before it hurts those you have sworn to lead and protect and that person should be removed and someone who is active put in their place. 

I think an upper should have at least 10 hours a week, How do you say you are helping or guiding or protecting anyone with 3 hours in a week? 

As great as that sounds DeadIrishman those rewards don't matter as much in the grand scheme of things. Nor is that how things really are anymore. It is extremely easy to build a gun these days, the distance is a nice risk factor, but our perks of having a + to our guns isn't that big of a benefit now. Nor is the defense. Most removals are complete massacres rather than an actual war these days. So the benefits you mention are almost negligible (they are nice Izzy, not saying they aren't)

Getting to be a CL used to be enjoyable. Sometimes you're lucky and it still is. But most people don't pay their taxes or donate. There are some few excellent people who pour money or dice, and get lucky that really are the ones that fund things. 

There aren't very many new people trickling in, so as nice as it is to teach someone. Many times it's just someone incog and pretending.

There is already an issue with people even wanting to be a CL or hand. I declined being a hand many times on this account until I realized the state of things, I still decline being a CL because I don't have the time for it. Yes, trust has some part to do with it, but really people just don't want to anymore. It is a lot of work and honestly for not much reward. As I mentioned before the members these days are just looking out for themselves. Again not everyone is, but a good majority are putting their money into their own bgs, their own guns, they are just logging in to click a few times and don't care about participating. I'm not saying they shouldn't have those perks for themselves too, but it makes it harder as a CL.

The reality is we're all here more for the friendships we have or the enemies we've made, because who doesn't love a good revenge arc. Most of us appreciate what Izzy has made for us here, but with most people declining being a CL or a hand, adding punishments for activity will make it worse.

This idea could have worked better when there were 3 crews per district and 20-30 people in each crew. But implement a punishment now and the struggle will be even worse. People can blame the current regime whoever it may be, but in reality it is more because people are doing other things these days. Committing so much time here isn't something they care to do. It has nothing do to with Izzy or the game, people are just moving on.

I agree an upper should be decently active, 10 hours makes sense, but imo if this was an idea that got implemented. No punishments. 

20-30 hours of average upper activity - 5% bonus

30-40 hours of average upper activity - 10% bonus

40+ hours of average upper activity - 15% bonus

Include posting (not 2-4 sentence posts, actual posts) in that too to help role playing.

Sorry for the hefty response.

While I agree with what you are saying this is a game. If you don't want to be an upper because it isn't enjoyable that's fine it is not something that has to be done I myself refused a CL spot becauase i cant do it rn. However there are lots of people who would love to be a leader that will never get the chance because they don't have the right friends or are not trusted because people don't know them for 15 plus years. The paranoia here causes so many wipes that actual new people can not get anywhere and the same people keep getting authed then going IA.

As someone who has been an upper in a real organization there is always going to be the shitty parts to it but its something that goes with leadership, Heavy is the head that wears the crown. At the end of the day this is a game, if you cant do your duties step down and let others have fun instead of kill anyone more active out of fear just to hold a Position you clearly don't care about or you would be here.

People are so afraid to set up someone they don't know because they may go rogue. Well if they do at least it adds some flavor to the game. But truth is the same people are the ones who rogue and we know who they are. But the fact is this is not a character to character system it is 100 percent about past lives and mistakes. 

The issue is not about making it better for those who choose to take the roles its about making it more equal and allowing new people to do what others have been doing for over a decade. If we work to make it enjoyable and such people will not be so bored they fall asleep once they hit CL or GF they will have reason to be here and things to do.

In a real organization you're getting paid to do what you're doing - so that part is irrelevant. We don't get paid here, this is for fun. This is a game not a job, but when the game doesn't become as fun as it used to be - people leave or quit. So again my point is, implement this and it will be even harder to find CLs and hands. It isn't even about letting others have a chance. People don't want to. It is the same people playing this game for years now. People can easily set people up they aren't fully trusting in and kill them later if what you say is true. 

So again, it is because most people do not want to.

Well all I know is as the leader you control who is in your family, If you have people not donating or being active that is on you. In any crew I run if everyone is not actively doing their part I will talk to them then warn them then kill them. If you bring in and work with people you will have a crew that donates and makes it fun. If you let them sit and do as they wish thats what they will do. 

Also where does the belief come from that being a leader is supposed to be fun? It is supposed to be about building the family and seeing the people under you succeed and if they do you have done your job well done. If someone is looking for the rewards of leadership I question if they are the one I want to follow. One of the first things I noticed about my current GF and GFC is that they spend most of their time trying to  work out ways to keep the city active and it has been a big thing in our crew with people reaching out and wanting to take part and asking what they can offer as prizes. And yes we have IA members but that will always be the case. 

My point is we as leaders are responsible for keeping the crew active and alive and that is not easy and is not going to be.

In a real organization you're getting paid to do what you're doing - so that part is irrelevant. We don't get paid here, this is for fun. This is a game not a job, but when the game doesn't become as fun as it used to be - people leave or quit.

The organization I was in was a prison gang and the only payment I recieved was walking out with my life after 16 years. It was not a job it was a way of life. A very real version of what we do here lmao. So kind of seems relevent to me

So this is just my thoughts, But I see the posts saying rewards work better than punishment. This is true, However if you do not see being a Hand or a CL as a reward then why are you in that position? 

Because I can not turn off the option of being placed as a hand and I don't want to suicide a perfectly good account with an interesting character backstory because I've been placed as a hand?  

Well, I'm sorry you had to go through that DeadIrishman, but again it is irrelevant because this is game - we are not having to worry about our well being/life here. We are here to play and have fun. Games are never going to be like the real thing completely because if they were then it wouldn't really be fun. If we were actually shooting each other or actually having to donate our real money (yes people spend money for perks or building guns or bgs, not accounting that) to our leaders like the real world - pretty sure a majority of those here wouldn't be here. A game is waaaaay different and what you went through, I'm sorry, but doesn't hold weight in a game as it is completely different in what will keep the player base happy.

And why the hell would anyone want to be a leader if it wasn't fun in a game????????? Building a family should be fun, seeing them succeed should be fun, and yes a job well done should be fun. Yet, you keep ignoring the other parts that have made being a leader not fun. Yes, keeping your city active is great and it is work, but when people aren't participating or aren't giving a shit about what you are doing for them. You're not going to want to be a leader anymore. This place is not about having a second job just so others can have fun. There is work that goes into being a leader, yes, but when that work becomes a job only and no more fun. No one is going to want to do it, which is what we see playing out these days. That and people are just not wanting to commit that time anymore.

There are only so many people who pour hours upon hours into this game these days. I'm not 16 anymore where I had all that free time to sit and play. Most of us aren't. Most of us are busy these days. You have to take into account the demographics/lifestyle of those who are playing.

Well you are right it is not the same and the game has lost its fun. So I am going to take the advice given and finish this run and go find something that is fun and. Thing is I do not think it will change because this is how most people seem to want it. I hope you all have the fun you desire. 

https://tenor.com/xIo2.gif

Oh man, that portayal of Mr. Wonka is truly horrifying Georgette.

Gave me horrible nightmares for years as a kid.  And then you get to be an adult, and realise there is way more horrific stuff than you realised there was when you were a kid and it gives you nightmares all over again.

Also where does the belief come from that being a leader is supposed to be fun?

What the actual fucking fuck.

I would agree that if all three uppers in a family aren't equating to at least 30 hours of activity per week then they incur some sort of penalty to their income. I don't really ever see any families with all three under 10 hours and if they exist then punishing that crew doesn't seem like a bad thing, although I don't think it would fix it either.

That's why even though I agree with it, I don't care if its added or not. Seems like it is a band aid fix for a problem that's much bigger which is just that these types of games are dying everywhere. No one could ever accuse me of loving this regime so I'm not saying this from a place of defense for them, but at a certain point this has been an issue for so many years now and through so many regimes that more punishments and rewards aren't going to fix it. It's just where we are.

My idea to fix it would be lowering districts of every city from 3 to 2 (outside of DT and CH which are already limited) and maybe even making crews even smaller (30 to 25). Stop punishing people for not having three hands and instead punish them based on activity as a whole. If a crew wants only a RH then the CL and RH both need to equal up to 30 hours or higher. LH can be an optional thing and you get a larger bonus to the 30+ hour bonus if you also have a LH that is doing 10+ hours.

The bonus would be just 1.5x money on earns and drug deals (2x if you have an active LH) and then if you're doing under 30 total hours then you make less money and the CL is alerted once every 24 hours that his members aren't making as much as they could be as some sort of pressure.

At the end of the day even this won't fix the larger issues, like the fact there are so few new players due to clicky games like this going out of style, and that everyone still playing has their friendships and grudges and fears and paranoias. Like Clarity said, most people now don't want to donate or take risks in taking auth and a lot of that boils down to the fact that they are worried they're going to be drained of their income and then shot by their own leader (or the leaders friends) and this goes beyond just the people in power now, that fear is there for different people no matter the regime and lowers the potential pool of players that you can rely on by a lot. The only thing that fixes this is a new fusion of players and that's a potentially impossible fix.

I personally think it should be a serise of punishments and I have some ideas on what it should look like and why.

The goal of punishing an inactive crew upper structure is to facilitate their removal and replacement with an upper structure that is active

As such I would implement the following changes:


1) Wild Guns:
Crew members from crews that are not properly managed get start taking on more wild contracts to make up for the lack of money (see part 3 for why). This leads to wildly inappropriate gun usage in their home city.

Each hand who is under the threshold of minimum activity (be that 5,8,10) Hours per weeks causes their crew members to incur +20% wackstat when shooting against their own city.

Each CL by the same requirements incurs +40% wackstat for their members shooting against their own city

Goal: Turn both those in the city against the inactive crew thus leading to replacement of inactive criminal elements. 


2) You scared your Bodyguards:
So, your crew just was raided by the City hall due to a full disappearance of a member of your leadership. Well your bodyguards despite being VERY loyal are no stooges and have seen your failure to lead and as such are taking a step back from protecting you as well as they might normally. 

the CL and Member of the upper structure that lead to the collapse of the crew both lose (50%? 25%?) BGE for the 30 days they are also barred from holding position.

Goal: Encouraging CLs to stay on top of things and not let the worst outcomes happen. CLs who cant keep a minimum of 1 hour a week should be stepping down and or retiring. Hands that cant should be replaced.

3) Starving Gangsters:

Your leadership is absent, you are no longer getting sent as many contracts and the few you are getting pay nowhere near what you would come to have expected in this life. Maybe its time to make some adjustments?

All proceeds of crime are greatly reduced based on scaled math and the presence of your upper structure as a whole.

The expected minimums: It should be expected to see a weighted average of cl/rh/lh hours to look something like this 10/10/10
should the expected MINIMUM average not be met money made from crime, drug sales (Including to a lesser degree CAs) and the rake by the house on gambling are greatly affected. (Im thinking a scaling Factor to up to 80% income loss on drug sales and Crimes,  20% loss of sale income from CAs and 2.5x the rake in the casino) Meaning dice would top out at 2.5% rake.

The weighted Math:
For every hand below the threshold it is assumed for the remaining hand and or CL to make up for the lost hours at a 2x Rate.
Thus if the left hand is at 2 hours (8 below the threshold) the CL and RH will be expected to have an extra 16 hours above the threshold to compensate.

If the CL is the one absent the expected rate will be 4X  thus and additional 32 hours above the threshold will be expected of the 2 remaining hands. (Assuming the CL is on 2 hours)


Goal:  Give crew members in inactive crews a reason to want to retire their inactive crew leadership.

And to add.

If the inactive crew/leader is the GF crew. The penalties apply to the whole district.

Attack the Idea not the person Tyki_Mikk. Or do you know its right so you are going to try and belittle my account so it cant happen? 

The positives are all in the post. The inactive crews go away or those who dont like inactive crews can make them go away. I am making no statements about any sort of desire to end any crew or do anything myself just simply adding a set of ideas to the post that would indeed solve the OPs issue with Inactive crews.

There are plenty of people around willing to take auth, I just find they are often overlooked because they are not the person the people in power want to take auth. 

Ehh, I may be I may not be. I know of enough people around right now who would take being a hand or a CL that I could effectively replace atleast half the current uppers if it had to be that way. Would it be the right uppers who knows, but there are plenty who want to try for various reasons or another.

As for your second question.

It may or may not make them become more active knowing their crew or city might or could kill them. If it does make them more active thats a win is it not? And if someone does take issue and fires the successful shot a new crew gets authed with presumably some fresh blood behind the wheels who may also be very active which would also be a win. 

If a Crew is inactive but everyone in the crew is super loyal to the CL and city that they would never take the shot even with +100% to their wackstat and losing much of their income then there is something to be postively said about that crew as a combined group.