It's obvious that our blood runs thicker than water, something I acknowledge anyways. This being said, how many of us actually take the bond instantly formed when we accept the invite into a family? To me it seems that the fresh boots off the boat are completely oblivious to this and so their mind is not in La Cosa Nostra but somewhere else.

This deep rooted relationship one holds with their family, their city and even to the code is seen at both ends of the spectrum. However, before I get lost in a rant, let me come back to my main point. This bond formed between you and your family after you accept that invite, what does it mean to you?

So is it something you brainwash your offspring with, keeping in mind there is a good chance of them meeting their maker way before their time? Maybe, an unwavering display of undying loyalty, short of overzealous. Then again, there's a fine line between courage and stupidity, it's a common sight today.

Is the bond between you and your leader a thing of the past when you meet your end? Should your children carry the torch and continue the bond with the family that brought the food to the table? If they chose otherwise, would it betray their own bloodline and the heart and soul of This Thing of Ours?

I simply can't grasp the many outlandish decisions I've seen throughout my time and those listed in my bloodlines journals. To me, many take the family bond as something that is merely optional, something that is an outdated concept. I see it as where many only see families simply as crews and Head Quarters as simply shelters from bullets and nothing else. What happened?

A new blood from any bloodline doesn't need to show any loyalty to any family right off the bat. They were not part of anything involving organized crime so their loyalty is where they decide to place it.

(in real life it makes sense, but as pointed out by the RHM/LHM abuse, this is a game. Make it stagnant or fresh are our options. Aside from probably three times (in 2 years and 15 deaths), I've never joined the same family twice.)

Aside from that one bit I can't go any further without spinning in a circle from past arguments.

Loyalty might be an outdated concept to some.  But to others it still is a way of life around here. 

Why would I work for someone and not give them 100%? The only reason I feel it would be that way is if you really could care less about whom you work for.  If that is case, maybe it is time for those people take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves why they really are here to begin with and if they are doing enough to get to know the family they are in. 

If not for family then this whole life really is somewhat pointless.

Hearing someone bring up yet another aspect of Loyalty almost turned my stomach and sent me home to not deal with the streets for the rest of the day, then I listened.

I know my family line has been gone for a long time but I never thought that the rules of Loyalty would ever be questioned. It has long been understood from generation to generation that once you decide on a family, the moment you accept that invite, you are tied to that family. The Family gives me protection, I give the Family a reason to protect me be it through earnings, recruitment, training my gun, or being ready to protect my Leader with my life. I prove myself and I am given the honor of being a MadeMan in this thing of ours. If war breaks out I do what is asked of me and if I fall then I leave it to my son to decide where our bloodline goes. If my son feels the reasons for war are justified, and the leader is just then he too shall go to the same Family.

Rank in Family means nothing without the loyalty to back it up.

.....So because of your fathers actions you're automatically bound to one family should you ever choose to get involved with the scene?

That's far from correct in my eyes. If you can't think for yourself I wouldn't want to be associated with you anyways.

(I'm the type of person who doesn't look for the easy route. I don't go to the same family because I know there will be an advantage to just move up based off my past more than my present, what the fuck is the point of trying in that case? I like KNOWING (not thinking) I can make it anywhere I go based on my performance.)

Isn't that the point of a parents legacy? To pave a way, lessen the burden upon their bloodline?

Walking the path of your father or mother shouldn't be seen as the easiest route but perhaps the most respected route. Your father/mother obviously bled for that family and died for the cause at hand. Why let their deaths be in vain and join another city or family? Assuming all was well under that roof to begin with.

Sure it'd be easier to climb the ladder but that's the point, your bloodline has EARNED that and has become trusted within the family and city limits. 

I never said I was automatically bound, I suggest you pay closer attention, what I did say is:" If my son feels the reasons for war are justified and the leader is just then he too shall go to the same Family. "

Why would my Family line not follow in their fathers footsteps if my father was in a respected Family?

(ooc)There is nothing easy about losing an account for the better of the family, actions like those are what build loyalty above all. As far as realism is concerned, if I was a true son of a fallen father I would be expected to join with the same family. Unless of course there was an in family vendetta in which case I would probably be wearing cement shoes along with my father....

I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way, but I'm going to refer to man named Brutus. This is Brutus is not the same Brutus who started this discussion. They simply share the same name. The Brutus I'm referring to is Marcus Junius Brutus of old, one of Gaius Julius Caesar's assassins.
Many would argue this particular Brutus was unloyal due to his actions. He was a friend of Caesar's yet he plunged his knife into his precious flesh. While they were friends, Brutus was a loyal roman who respected the sancity of the republic. His loyalty to Rome was greater than his loyalty to Caesar. I'm going to have argue that mafioso should consider Brutus' choice with respect to our thing.

I remember reading about a fellow named TylerDurden. Tyler had made some poor decisions and there was talk of a possible takedown. One of his captains overheard these rumors and whispers and took matters into his own hands. He killed Tyler and usurbered the family leadership. Through Tyler's death he was able to preserve the lives of his family. So, his loyalty to family and the ways of our thing were greater than his loyalty to boss.

Either way, it's not so black and white.

Wasn't completely directed towards you, quoting someone always helps to prevent these types of situations huh? Oops.

Ooc: As I said, it would make sense in a real life situation. But like the RHM/LHM/CL situation, they don't translate over to this game. We can pick and choose anything to make a "realistic" argument for, there's much bigger things that this argument effects though (the RHM/LHM/CL situation). I've now completed my circle.

there are a small handfull of bloodlines running about that i will be loyal too until this world is no more. some are within my crew and others are scattered about. you develop these bounds over time and they dont easily break. i am one who believes you should try new things and work for new crewleaders. people who continue to return to the same leaders over and over are reeally missing out on things i believe

THE_SINGER who just put down his glass of water was busy listening to everyone speaking. After a good range of opposition from all sides THE_SINGER forced his mind to think about what he would believe his childeren if they ever should return to this lifestyle would do.

If i may i would first like to say, Hawk just tell me you love me and that will be enough. All kidding aside i really do enjoy this conversation that has been broughten up by Brutus so thankyou for doing so. Now, lets jump into it from my perspective.

It really comes down to the family itself, its a sort of investment you know; what you put into it you will get out. If you sit around and just let your family run around making you money without taking a moment of your day to say hello to them or motivating them individually dont expect their sons to return. We have to remember what this life was originally meant to be for every single mobster. This life that is often referred to as just a game. I think you understand what i am implying here. So if you get an actual leader, one who leads in the trenches and not in his high oval office then you will always have a good return of your Mobsters sons.

Personally the way i have always looked at it was this thing of ours is about being "Family" Not only to treat each other like family but to put this family above our own. This is why we spend so much time of our days here instead of with our wife or childeren. Yeah sure we bring home the bacon but if your leader wanted you to do something or a war was occurring how many of us would tell young timmy, "Hold on we will play soccer another day, daddy must play in the mafia right now." As little Timmy stands there with his heart broken and his soccer ball in his hands you are off killing Inactive gangsters and drinking in your family bar. Some life you traded it for.

Little timmy will see you die and remember how your Leaders treated you. He will wonder, "What made that family so great that my dad was always there and not here with me." However there is a oppisite side to this, Little Timmy could grow very angry about this seeing that he never had a father figure around because his dad was slave-driven by his crewleader and little Timmy wouldnt want anything to do with that.

This is how we judge the return based on leadership.

Now me personally, I only ever join friends of my bloodline. People that know my bloodline. Unless i know the leaders i dont join them and i always gaurantee my childs safety to the one who offeres protection for him first. The way i look at it is my friend has a moment in the spotlight and it would be quite a shame not to enjoy it with him, eh i mean my bloodline share in it. Who wouldnt want to have their friends in a crew they were leading am i right?

I dont believe every person has to have their sons come back to the crew they were once in but what i do believe is that everyone has their choice. A bloodline recieves a certain amount of loyalty when it returns to a city or crew that the father or fathers father was in constantly. A few people i could think of is Cassiopeia, She was a leader in philadelphia when she died she could have taken an easier route and joined a well populated city but she, i mean her daughter, ran back to the city her mother loved so much. Jade is another, Jades bloodline was always in chicago under roman and when ever her mother or mothers mother died they constantly returned to the city they were from.

This, is two opposite people with two different stories but it goes to show that loyalty to ones city is never unrecognized. I was not in either of those cities nor my bloodline but i surely do recognize this. We all know and remember people that return to the places their fathers were and we always respect those people. There is something about them that stands out from others, we dont really know what that is exactly but we know its good.

FINALLY, there is a point i would surely like to make. Any person or persons who expect and await the return of a son of a member to come back based on the previous achievements or death of the father is surely not meant for leadership, that type of person is usually egotistical and really only cares about themself. A safe warning: A person who hopes for the return of your son is great. A person who demands it is surely not.

THE_SINGER pauses after using one breath to spit that all out.

Please if i am not understood in anyway or if you disagree with me inform me. I will sit patiently in this corner and play with my thumbs.

"FINALLY, there is a point i would surely like to make. Any person or persons who expect and await the return of a son of a member to come back based on the previous achievements or death of the father is surely not meant for leadership, that type of person is usually egotistical and really only cares about themself. A safe warning: A person who hopes for the return of your son is great. A person who demands it is surely not."

95% of the time singers family line came back and expect things because of who his family line

Pot this is kettle

"95% of the time singers family line came back and expect things because of who his family line

Pot this is kettle"

THE SINGER laughs as he pots this kettle. Of all people to talk about expecting things because of his family line.

Well thats not true is it? You may ask Stallion, You may ask Ashes, You may ask the son of the Deceased Jester, The living Hawk grandson of Ragnarok, you can even ask the son of the late BananaBender most loyal man to New Orlans RoRog. All these men i have worked with and for. I never asked or expected a position of leadership within this family or The Toothless Bastards. The only thing i expect in all honesty, is 95% of people i have talked to to speak with me because i know how to keep friendships and not destroy them over a mindless game.

Unlike some people I know how to lead and this is truth. Thats why im put in leadership positions. I make the LHM spot valuable. Im not being arrogant im being truthful and truth is what humility is. Dont believe me? Ask anyone of the family members in the Demonic Pheonixes. Dont think im a leader or have influence? AntiSmurf still wheres my first family tag. I inspire people to return to families and bring in greater tributes. I dont ask for any positin of leadership because i have other obligations to fulfill. I gaurantee you out of anyone you know that knows me they will tell you that i am right where i should be because i earn it i dont expect it.

THE_SINGER hands the kettle back.

Your word against mine buddy.

Ashes notices his LHM passionately replying to some comment made about himself and his bloodline.

Please come here, my friend. I totally understand why you reacted the way you did, but a Made Man and a LHM shouldn't feel the need to explain himself SO much to a Wise Guy from another city.

Yes, I agree something should have been said. I'm just saying not so much. You shouldn't really care so much since I haven't heard until today anybody that questions what you are made of or the achievements of your bloodline.

All he did was take one second out of his time to attempt to slander your name. You invested 10 times more effort in your reply and even much more in what you had said before. That alone in itself says a lot.

Hey! See it as a compliment. One of your ancestors made such a big impression (good or bad, I don't care) in some of *his* ancestors that somebody I hadn't even noticed took the time to come out to the streets to talk about you.

There is a saying in Spanish that goes something like "I'm not a gold coin to be liked by everybody" so don't let this get to you.

You can even ask the son of the late BananaBender most loyal man to New Orlans RoRog

I can't let that one go... thats absolute bullshit no matter how that was intended.

Unlike some people I know how to lead and this is truth. Thats why im put in leadership positions. I make the LHM spot valuable.

Also, that just proved Prem's point.

SINGER throws his hands in the air.

Absolute Bullshit? How? Lets examine this. Can you not ask him? Was he not the most loyal man? Which is i believe a fair opinon to say given that he stayed with The Late godfather for so long. How was this not only bullshit but ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT, which is some pretty serious bullshit. Because to me, bullshit is regularly just bullshit but Absolute Bullshit i mean that seems somewhat Extraordinary almost on a whole new level or something! Please tell me what this is so when i hear absolute bullshit randomly in the streets when im walking by two people who are talking i can say it and not give a reason.

How did that prove his point? This didnt prove his point in the least. I was stating im, my bloodline is, put here and that it is not i that i go out and ask for it. I know how to lead because whether this suit is on me or not im in a leadership position. The problem with Premiers Statement is it attacked the "WHO" of who i am. There is not a fact that can prove Singers bloodline comesback 95% of time expecting a single thing. AND IF THERE was a fact to prove my bloodline came back and expected anything it wouldnt be "Leadership" in any form i can tell you that much. The only person that would truely know that is I and that very last person would be Premier.

However if you dont feel like explaining thats more than fine, i welcome words from a man that came out of no where without a blink of an enterance, It is like you are some sort of Ghost or something.

Absolute Bullshit? How? Lets examine this. Can you not ask him? Was he not the most loyal man? Which is i believe a fair opinon to say given that he stayed with The Late godfather for so long. How was this not only bullshit but ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT, which is some pretty serious bullshit. Because to me, bullshit is regularly just bullshit but Absolute Bullshit i mean that seems somewhat Extraordinary almost on a whole new level or something! Please tell me what this is so when i hear absolute bullshit randomly in the streets when im walking by two people who are talking i can say it and not give a reason.

Absolute bullshit is a fair assessment I would say

Anyway, to the topic at hand.  Consistently people expect to be treated a certain way based on who their bloodline is.  Many who claim not to do such a thing, regularly do just that.  I am loyal from the moment I begin working for someone.  If I didnt feel loyalty to the leader of the family, I wouldn't be working for that person.  Over the course of a generation, feelings may change, loyalty is a complicated issue.  I understand when people chose to work for new leaders.  I have always found it difficult to transfer my bloodline's loyalty while the head of the family whom I began working for originally is still in a posistion of leadership.

I've always hated talks about loyalty. To me you can say you're loyal until your blue in the face but when it comes down to it no one really knows where loyalties lie until the shit hits the fan.

Is there some form of loyalty when you join a crewleader? I sure hope so but I believe loyalties can change or maybe it's just that people change and things begin to take on a different perspective. Everyone's different, personalities clash and sometimes loyalty just isn't enough to make it work in the same family as certain people.

Our next of kin don't owe anyone anything. They are free to change the path their mothers or fathers were on or try something completely different. Some people will take up the same path while others will try the new path. Is it wrong for a next of kin to shake things up a bit? Maybe our children will see something they would rather be doing elsewhere.

I don't think the next of kin moving elsewhere means they were any less loyal. Their parents did their duties or paid their prices whatever the case may be and their kids are free to move on.

"How did that prove his point? This didnt prove his point in the least. I was stating im, my bloodline is, put here and that it is not i that i go out and ask for it. I know how to lead because whether this suit is on me or not im in a leadership position. The problem with Premiers Statement is it attacked the "WHO" of who i am. There is not a fact that can prove Singers bloodline comesback 95% of time expecting a single thing. AND IF THERE was a fact to prove my bloodline came back and expected anything it wouldnt be "Leadership" in any form i can tell you that much. The only person that would truely know that is I and that very last person would be Premier. "



Well first off, id like to address your comment of i am one to talk or something to that extent.

I have never asked for anything based on who my father was, i raped, pilgaged, stole, murdered, etc etc for what i had, and contiuned to do so.

I didn't attack the who of you at all, i merely made a statement.

You are just one of those people who feel bad about always expecting shit so you made a thread to try and make yourself look good, when still everyone knows exactly who and what you are.

And the reason i do know your family line.

You worked for my great grandfather, got mad your blood line didn't get auth, shot at random cities, came back and did the same thing.

So yes i do know you

"
All he did was take one second out of his time to attempt to slander your name. You invested 10 times more effort in your reply and even much more in what you had said before. That alone in itself says a lot.

Hey! See it as a compliment. One of your ancestors made such a big impression (good or bad, I don't care) in some of *his* ancestors that somebody I hadn't even noticed took the time to come out to the streets to talk about you."

Not really slander, when its the truth, would be the oppisite actually.

He should see it as a compliment, that his family line was so shitty that i remembered it enough to remind him of it.

But thank you for coming to the street ashes, your input was so appercaited. I will have my secetary file your reply in my nobody cares file.