So, we see this topic raise its ugly ahead again today. Now, the person that brought it to our attention used what I would describe as a pathetic example of Whoring. This is what has prompted me to move away from his corner and come on over to this corner and raise the subject in a different sense with you all..

Do we think there is currently a problem with member whoring? If you answer Yes to this question, can you please for the good of the community describe what you feel member whoring is?

In my view, member whoring is when a mobster decides to either drop invites into pockets of people he's never spoken to, or he directly contacts an unsponsored criminal with the offer of cash should he accept to join your organisation.

Many people seem to regard ANY contact with unsponsored mobsters as a whoring attempt. Personally, I don't see any problem with contacting them, it all depends on HOW you do it.

I often check out the folk just off the boat and see if they seem lost or not. At times I notice people that I recognise, maybe they've had family on these shores before, and so I leave them alone as its likely their family would have advised the best way to do things around here.. if however it looks like the kid is completely new and alone in this world, I tend to point them in the direction of News and Info Boulevard where they can see the secret messageboard that explains about all the local crime family's and whether they are accepting members or not.

Now many people would probably assume I approach these people because I want to look like a nice guy and fool them into joining me. Thats a very cynical and incorrect view, but it wouldn't surprise me if many people thought that due to the perception of member whoring that we have.

So, as I was saying earlier - Can anyone honestly say we have an issue with member whoring, and if so, can you please tell the rest of us what you think member whoring is?

Animal tips his hat and steps aside for the next person to speak

That is an interesting concept you have there Animal, Though sadly i think these people that come to the streets trying to discredit hard working and respected mafiosi are trying to stir up trouble. Though your points are the same as in my view of member whoreing, If there wrong then i would certainly like to hear how i should go about contacting these new arrivels or so called new arrivels as lately they seem to know more about how this thing of ours works better then those we have incharge around here.

Stan lights a ciger and offers one to Animal

Animal, i respect you and your fathers before you, yet i don't think member whoring is as much as an issue as is people bringing it to our attention in this format as often as it does. That goes for people posting the invites they were given on the lamppost on this here corner of the street, to, as civilian said, discredit people.

I feel we, as a community make it more of an issue than it ever has to be by such speeches and we give it far too much coverage, the more we bring it to the forefront of peoples tongues, the more an issue it becomes. Member whoring is simply used as a way to create unnecessary drama, that results in far to much bad press.

My way of thinking is, just ignore or say no. Its a pretty simple solution, one that doesn't attract every single person thoughts and in turn doesn't make it an issue, one that doesn't require you to come out here and out that particular person, as then it becomes a problem.

I think there is no problem with member whoring. Some people are more blunt than other people. Member "whoring". It helps keep this game active by allowing new members to meet people.

PARAMEDIC!!

Animal watches as the ambulance staff rush over to inject him before his OOC-itis gets any worse

I see what your saying south-paw, but at the same time, if the good hard working members of our community don't make an issue of things that they feel are issues, regardless of how slight an issue it may be, then in time the issue will only get worse. I don't know about you, but i'd rather we didn't sit back and watch all the new folk off the boat being grabbed instantly by the same people time and again that "whore" them.

But then, as I said, I don't even know if these things are common place these days, I know I received a number of mails when I stepped off the boat, but that was a few weeks ago almost.

Agreed, i am all for tackling issue's head on and I would always encourage people of this world to do so and actively pursue such problems, as you rightly said, if we don't the issue could spiral out of control, we have to have a measure of control for everything.

Just mainly my point was, i feel this subject has been talked about, rules set in place countless times and all honesty, to much for me, however this is not to discredit your fine speech.
From experience and reading through journals i cant see any examples of any of my fathers randomly finding invites in their pockets, so from a personal stance, this is something i have an issue with.

It really isn't a problem.  My father and myself were approached by a couple of people as we arrived off the boat.  One person said "You need protection, how about I send you an invite" however if you treat such occasional approaches as junk mail then why get upset?  The rest were attempts at dialogue which had I been someone very wet behind the ears rather than a wizzened old potato would have been gratefully received.

In order to get an invite into this august establishment, I had to do all the running.  I had to compliment Animal on the size of his whang and offer to put cones out to warn passers-by to avoid unnecessary lawsuits.

Member whoring to me is offering sums of money, or unrequested invites.

Secondary whoring is mass spamming fresh blood, getting them on the hook and when they become a member or associate you do not contact them again.

Neither of the above is good for the longer term development of our world, it leaves fresh blood wondering what sort of community we live in.

Good to know my own Hands are on the same wave length at least!

And Betsy.. I do believe you brought up my "whang" dear...

Romeo - we share the same view on what defines whoring. though I hadn't even considered that people might then ignore the people they whore after managing to get them onboard. Myself and the family members of mine before me have always tried to help people wherever possible, so I find it completely crazy that people can be so lazy as to ignore new people like that.

Personally, I love finding new fish. Teaching them how this thing of ours work, or I should say how I believe it works, as we all share differing views, is one of the most rewarding parts of our life here. When you manage to teach someone that is completely new and see them grow to someone that you can admire and respect it makes it all worthwhile.

I hope she won't mind me mentioning her name, but my mother spoke of someone new to this world that she met on her travels in Chicago, a woman by the name of Lola_Delaney. It had been some time since my mother had come across someone so new, yet so accomplished in our ways. Though she had no hand in training Lola, she was so pleased to know that there is life in the old dog yet and that new people are still reaching our shores and can prove to be as good as the old guard are.

This is the reason many of us despise whoring. Someone like Lola could have easily been lost to the aforementioned whores and left wondering what the fuck is this place, instead she found a good home and was raised well.

Mr. Warrior. I think the problem here is... the people who cry about member whoring are those who remember a time when their bloodline had to work themselves to find a family. Both our blood's go back far enough to remember times when our ancestors didnt have numerous mails sent to them as they "got off the boat". They had to network contacts themselves.

However, times have changed... the criminal underworld is not as populated as it once was. It seems a legitimate way of life is more appealing to folk nowadays so we have a much smaller pool of mafioso. The ones who come here whining about member whoring need to buck their ideas up and realise this world has changed. We need to talk to and make every new face feel welcome just to keep the numbers up. For the older bloodlines who hate getting mails asking if their blood is new to these shores there is a really simple solution. When you get a note stuffed in your pocket asking if you want shelter and it annoys you, do what my blood does... screw it up and throw it in the bin.

As for what I believe is member whoring... it's quite simple for me. When an invite is sent out without the person even being spoken to.

I have to admit, I am guilty of sitting on the docks and waiting for that boat to hit our shores so I can approach any new members to this thing of ours, BUT, I ask to get to know that person see if they have any bloodlines from this world, before offering to sponsor a canidate I make sure I explain to theem what I personally expect from them as well as what they should expect from the family. Of the mafioso I talk too only a few have recieved an invitation.

Member whoring is nessesary to a degree, I think everyone can agree inviting a member to a family without even talking to them is a wrong thing to do. Ignoring a member once they belong to your family is also shamefull and lazy, lack of communication between your family will breed a family wearing nothing but a Monkey suit...

Just like ImNotTeQ for me member whoring is when an invite is sent out before any previous communication.

As for the rest of the ways people can be recruited. Each to their own really. If a crew leader wants people who send out "I wantz in ur crew" mails then that is their choice. If one or two mails exchanged is enough for a crew leader and that is the type of people they want then that is their choice. If they don't want to question new guys properly first and just will accept anyone then that is their choice. It says a lot about the crew leader and the kind of operation they have going but if that is how they want things run then so be it. I guess they will just suffer for it in the long term.

For my crew if someone wants in they get questioned properly, as much information as possible is pulled out of them. We ask them to let us know their intentions for a life here and what they think they can bring to the table in New York. If someone can answer all those questions and pass this semi interview then that is the type of person I want in New York. I have standards. Some crew leaders do not. We all do our own thing the way we think is best.

For my crew if someone wants in they get questioned properly, as much information as possible is pulled out of them. We ask them to let us know their intentions for a life here and what they think they can bring to the table in New York. If someone can answer all those questions and pass this semi interview then that is the type of person I want in New York. I have standards. Some crew leaders do not. We all do our own thing the way we think is best.

Stallion has nailed it for me. I got her 20 days ago.  Three people asked several questions. I asked several in return. Two sent me empty invites without ever talking to me. I deleted them and decided two of the ones I had talked to were possibilities. I asked them to put invites in my mail and said I would make a decision the next day. I went to the threads and read what was posted by the two leaders. One particular post was the tiebreaker.

We all have different objectives. We have time to find a family that is the right fit. People are always going to send blind invites and offer incentives. We do not have to give in to the temptation of incentives nor do we have to accept these blind invites.

THE_SINGER strolls out into the streets and catches the words from the wild animal.

Honestly, this topic could come out a billion times i would still absolutely love it. This is one of my more favorite things to speak on or to here discussed. I guess since we are speaking on opinions not much could go wrong here right?

I would like to think Member Whoring is when a man does not take the time to get to know the target they wish to recruit. Whether that be just sending them a mail or just saying, "Hey buddy looking for a crew?" I consider whoring to be in that order. Its just like when you are in the Red light District in Vegas or NYC. A loose woman might come up and say something along the lines of, "Wanna good night honey?" BOOM POW WHORING at its finest.

Personally, this is how i recruit. I send every new guy a friendly greeting complimenting something about them. Probably their name. This establishes contact and i feel if i have some contact ill know if his family has ever crossed this line of work before. Slowly i get to know the guy, i say slowly cause it depends on his message response. I always let them know they have two days to look for a crew, i tell them about some of my current friends who are leaders at the time and i tell them why i am in the crew i am in. That is just how i roll.

Thinking back a moment Dutchman made a very crucial point that SINGER wishes to reiterate.

Dutchman, has made a very good point and i just want to say i completely agree. It really is a shame when you see people recruited into families and literally left thinking, "Well they were so nice to me before now no one talks to me." That is such a shame. I know it happens everywhere and its never intentional and really for the most part the young mafioso should always go out and ask a member how to do things but i wonder if this is where the Made Members come into action. If the Made men are the ones who should go out and make everyone feel a part of the family since in the sense they are the family. I hope i made sense.

Tips hat and nods towards Teq

Well I know when I stepped off my little boat smuggling endagered birds and monkey's flinging poo... They all got more attention than I did. As a matter of fact, I was left to read the vibe on our streets and pay attention to those walking by in order to spark some past connections.

Looks towards the rest of those gathered

I know for myself, I firmly believe that people shouldn't be allowed in a family until they are an earner. It might sound odd and I know unrealistic but tis a view I have. And of Course there WILL be acceptions to this rule. Families that children take up the business of course will be granted access to this world that neophite's still stumbling through will not get.

I don't really care for member whoring as it were but if we want to keep this thing of ours alive we need to keep people engaged in this life of crime. This means from the time they step off the boat till we burn their ashe's or fill their shoes with cement.

I personly think that if you recruit a member that person IS your resposibility if there new it takes time to help then know where they stand and get to know how things work, where if there bloodlines have roamed these streets before they are pretty much self suficient and dont need looking after. It is a big responseability to take on a fresh face and help them out if your not prepered to do that then really why attempt to bring them into the fold so to speak.

Now the whoreing aspect is one that gets to me you might drop some person your buisness card telling them if there interested to look you up at a certain speak easy or coffee shop and BAM next thing theres some upstart thug standing on a soap box flashing your card for the world to see saying that you are whoreing them.

Or you could have a hot Tip that some Delawere fucks have set up shop in your city so you start gathering some local muscle to deal with the threat and BAM some punk rings your Crewleader or again comes to the streets screaming that there being member whored.

The problem will never go away while there are people who come to our streets just to cause problems or the recruiters dont train there new blood to our ways as they become frustrated and more often then not enter certain coffee shops in shits and giggles blvd

Firstly, a polite tip of my hat to Animal. I appreciate your very kind words.

My presence has been a little scant of late, but I'm making a slow return to these Streets and I'm unsurprised that this topic is up for discussion. While I can no longer be considered new, I can verify that in my case, my very first taste of this world was member whoring. Within seconds of my arrival, I was approached by quite a few Mafiosi keen to recruit fresh blood. At the time, I didn't particularly mind as we all have the power of refusal - that is simple common sense. Anyone coming into This Thing of Ours has a choice. I chose to hold fire, do my homework and get to know the place a little better before committing myself to a family.

Now that I've been around a while, I must say that my view of this epidemic - and an epidemic is precisely what it is - has become quite negative. I myself have been approached by newcomers, and my first inclination is to help them with any questions they may have regardless of whatever choices they eventually make. Most of these people actually ended up in different cities from myself, bar one who specifically requested an invite to join my family.

In my opinion, it is far more honourable to provide these people with a little bit of information and a helping hand in finding their feet without influencing their direction. I firmly believe that member whoring - particularly offering financial benefits in return for joining a family - is risky and gives rise to potential rogues. Sure, Mr or Mrs X might accept your offer, but who's to say they'll be happy once they've settled in? An unhappy, dissatisfied mobster makes for unnecessary trouble and that I do not agree with.

So, for those who do prefer to approach fresh blood directly with the intention of recruiting before a little bit of casual exchange, I would suggest that you uphold your commitment to them and retain their interest. As for me, I find it much more gratifying to provide someone with the facts and allow them to choose your family of their own accord.

After watching how The_Singer rolls for a significant amount of time, Jam_n_Honey addresses the crowd.

I would be interested in knowing what types of things anyone is inclined to tell potential recruits.

Upon arrival of these shores I was approached by many, but none gave me any information that was useful.  There was also a good deal of attempted member whoring when my previous crew leader was gunned down in a freak accident.  All I was offered either time was cash and protection.  Those are both significant rewards, I would agree, but isn't there more to life in this thing of ours?

I would be interested in knowing what types of things anyone is inclined to tell potential recruits.

 

Well, for me its simple as those who approached me claimed to be brand new with no prior experience of This Thing of Ours. So, I explained the basics: petties, felonies, drug runs, flying between cities, how and where communication takes place (The Streets, Business Districts, HQ etc) and of course the importance of joining a family. Anything thereafter is always based on whatever questions they may have. In terms of info about families, the only information I'll provide is which crews have places and who to approach about finding out more or securing an invite (i.e. CL, LHM, RHM etc).

First off, this recent wave of discussion is concerning legitimately recruiting someone and not member whoring. Anyone who says otherwise is out of touch with reality.

People choose not to recruit because of prejudices from long ago or because they're simply unwilling to put the extra work in to attract new members. I feel often that alot of the same people who choose not to recruit say everything that smells like recruiting new members is member whoring. If you breathe in the direction of a new member you're member whoring in these people's eyes. Recruiting via sending mails to new members of this thing of ours isn't going to hurt anyone. Politely declining mails or even ignoring mails that you personally feel are unwelcomed attempts to make you join an organization isn't going to hurt anyone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking to new people concerning their future.

Its always highly disappointing when I see these discussions concerning member whoring on the street because its a topic that shouldn't even exist in this world. Allowing people to recruit using whatever means they wish seems reasonable to me. If they burn down their own organization by the way of recruiting too many members of poor quality and then not handling the situations that are caused because of those members, then natural selection can take its course. Maybe, there will be a leader who can handle it and their enemies will be another hateful spawn of people who can't deal with someone being more successful and attempt to burn them down on this topic. Regardless, just to be clear, calling member whoring an epidemic is far too strong as far as I'm concerned and doesn't even represent what the imagined problem is.

With that being said, its been ingrained in many of us older bloodlines that sending an invite without talking to a person or offering money in exchange for membership are commonly frowned upon and is the generally accepted meaning of member whoring. I don't know if that necessarily needs to be the case or not. Only once since my bloodline reached these shores has a jezebel of any sort sent a mail to me regarding joining their organization but that mail was so vague that I couldn't even decipher it as such an attempt. I don't think its a problem to the degree thats its spoken to at the very least. I suppose everyone loves a good argument... It'll at least hold us over until the next time an IWP person shows up in Vegas.

Honestly I don't think we'd even talk about "member whoring" if someone didn't coin a phrase that everyone enjoyed speaking. It just rolls off the tongue doesn't it?