Are they missed?

Is their legacy the current stalemate, malaise and lack of action that we see now?

Here's what I think.  The all powerful Roman backed the wrong horse in Prem.  This was obvious to anyone with an iota of common sense.  But the view from the Ivory Tower seemed to blind Roman to what was painfully obvious.  So it was and so it went.

R & P were hated and detested.  But they did something that our current leaders have failed to do - they galvanised opinion and they motivated people.  Top earning, respected CLs were willing to throw the towel in and blow their brains out rather than continue under Prem.  Roman's closest friends turned on him at the end.  Hell, one of them in the top seat right now!

There are no pantomine villains.  Only sad clowns.

When Detroit, under Worley, was wiped off the map, this thing died a sad death.  The only people worth talking about were gone - and not much will make them come back.

Would a return of dictatorship mean the return of the resistance?

The resistance were and are the most interesting, intruiging and revitalising thing that this has seen for a long, long time.

Are they missed?

'lack of action that we see now?'

stop staring at the wall.

yes  bring back two dead godfathers so people can hurl their disdain at them instead of mimbling it amongst theirselves in the coffee shops

No not one bit, We haved moved on and will contnue to do so. I for one dont miss the Roman/Premier show at all and under the guidence of the current leadership i see a future unlike the roman/premier era where you had to be one of there boys/girls to get anything.

The empire Roman created was a fantastic achievement, however you look at it. To rule the game the way he did for so long, I don't think anybody could contest that he was a great player. But do I think the game misses those days? No. The drama that has taken place over the last week or so, I would honestly never expect to happen under Roman. The game was stagnant when Roman and Prem fell. While I honestly think that there is a danger of this repeating itself with the lack of inhabited cities at the moment meaning that all the new dons and godfathers will come from a limited pool of cities, lending to automatic alliances and meaning that the newer players, even those with talent, will find it harder to progress to leadership positions, the way that Las Vegas was settled gave some hope to the people who hadn't previously been noticed. If the current GF council can resolve to settle another city in the same way once Vegas properly settles, it will keep the game fresh, I feel.

You know, when I heard what you were calling your speech, I started getting my answer ready while I was getting ready to hear your side of the story. Then I actually heard you and I could barely believe what I was hearing.

As respectful as I can, I need to tell you that your arguments are all over the place and even though your original question is still a valid one, you don't provide much more than a bunch of blindsided comments and contradictions.

Stalemate? Were Roman and TheDean in a state of stalemate when they were the two more powerful people around? Stamina and JesseJAmes are not in stalemate for two huge reasons: they have no interest in attacking each other and then, no offense, I'm pretty sure we could guess what the outcome of that attack would be. Not taking away any merit from anybody, just stating my opinion on who I view as stronger.

Lack of action? Very well put Mr_Flibble. I think your daddy or grandpappy must have had this speech ready and you just found his notes and decided to give it a go to see what kind of responses you generate, but you should have updated it, man. You say this just one week after three take downs?

"they galvanised opinion and they motivated people. Top earning, respected CLs were willing to throw the towel in and blow their brains out rather than continue under Prem." How you can say these two things back to back and your brain doesn't crash from the contradiction is beyond me. What kind of a motivator gets his people to blow their brains out and/or betray them? You can say he was a good leader, it will be your opinion, but a motivator? Really?

About Detroit... well, if a bunch of abrasive people making open fun of a city in the streets is the only people worth talking about then you think we are in worse shape than I do, man. There may have been much more going on in DT at the time, but I think at one point, this was what was being most remembered by most people.

The era of R&P was a stable one, yes, but it wasn't fun for many. Yes, this is highly subjective. My grandfather and his boss considered committing suicide several times and it was the crew they ran together that kept them alive and going despite the abuse and desdain.

I guess that in a larger and somewhat slower rate this whole place is just like LV. Power struggles and a lot of action and attacks until some stability inevitably takes over as the people that can't handle the power get removed and cooler heads prevail. Kind of what we are finally seeing in LV as well now.

Oh, Nicola, I forgot to ask you...

Your comment seems to be based on the assumption that talent very rarely gets noticed on its own and it's ALL about "who you know". Is this true? You don't think people get noticed eventually? I agree that some people always get fast-tracked to power or BGs, but some other people, albeit always slower, also make it to the top.

If you can provide one example of a very well deserving person that was never given a chance to prove him/herself I'd appreciate it. I really can't think of one.

I don't believe its ALL about "who you know" - just that from my own observations, it can be a hell of a lot easier if you know people. Of course people will get noticed, eventually, but it can be one hell of a long process. 

ugh, I pressed submit too early. I just think that contests like that in Las Vegas even the field for people who might not have typically been in power, it gives them a hope of reaching the top. A good boss allows their family to prove themselves, but there IS a large element of "who you know", and just sometimes its nice to see that broken down.

It is all about who you know, otherwise each city would be headed by a Don.

Agreed. It does get easier if you know the right people. But I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. I mean, it did take some time to somebody at least to impress the right people at some point in time.

John... what does that even mean? I feel like you are really not putting the proper amount of thought into what you are saying when you come here...

I think it is an element of who you know and what you do.

If you work hard and prove yourself there are chances out there to be taken. Those chances will improve to an extent depending on who you know.


As for bring back Roman and Prem I think that is a dead horse long since flogged, if you want to flog it lets go back a year and bring back TheDean from his sunny home in Florida or bring back Anita!!!

Times change, what defines us is how we adapt to the changing of times. Probably only 4 people know the true strength of the bond between JesseJames and Stamina, two of those will only know depending on how the conversations are had.

Our world is fighting back from near on close destruction but history shows our world fights back strongly. If you look at our history after all big takedowns/wars there is a period of peace as people find their feet, families rebuild. There will always be pressure on the top dogs to be seen to doing stuff, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Joe Mobster himself has to pull in the right way and take the opportunity that is out there when he gets the chance.

At any point in a mobsters life there is the defining moment, chances are you you won't know it till way after the event or your children may notice it. The best of us notice that moment and grasp it with both hands.

I'm all for TheDean visiting from his sunny home. Although I am fairly sure he would much prefer that home. Asking for people to come back from their graves such as Prem and Roman seems a bit more like wishful thinking and seeing the past as better than it truly was which only hinders you from making the best out of the present.

That being said I do agree with Nicola that it is much harder to get noticed for your hard work if your not a particular bloodline or in with a particular group.

It's not hard at all unless you work for blind people. I think people underestimate the Crew Leaders or overestimate their own skills. Or perhaps they underestimate their shortcomings. That is most likely the case in many that believe they deserve to be somewhere and they hardly ever make it there.

Could always be that the crewleader and someone who has what it takes have a long history and both are blind? I suppose anything is possible, isn't it?

It's not really something I can say I've experienced, but is it possible that people are finding that their leaders aren't giving them assistance in recognising their shortcomings and evaluating their skills and worth?

As a cliche, yes, I guess "everything is possible". But not in this case. I'm sure that the definition of history has it somewhere that there's a reason that it builds up to a point where it's called history.

There's a saying, supposed to be funny that says "Eat shit. Millions of flies can't be wrong." but the fact of the matter is that if after a long while, several lives and cities, a certain bloodline always fails to make it big, then it's time to stop accusing the people in power and admit the real problem.

Like I said, some people really underestimate their shortcomings...

But then there is always the flipside that the crewleader in fact recognizes the short comings and thats all they recognize. Could be very disappointing to the person if they feel like they could never master it

There is no flipside here. We're discussing the fact that I was asking for an example of somebody who thought he/she was worthy of an important role and is always denied it. I will keep on thinking that a bloodline that fails with multiple people in multiple cities is not cut out for a big role in here.

Somebody can say all they want about "A" certain Crew Leader (that in itself is already thinking he knows more than somebody that has already been entrusted with such a high role, which speaks a lot about that person) but when the same someone fails constantly, well, you see where I'm going...

Nicola, as to your question... I think you are either making too broad of a question or you really have somebody specific in mind when you ask that. Unless a member is asking for help and being ignored, I can't think of a circumstance where your question applies. Unless you expect Crew Leader to be constantly criticizing their members, how else can they help overcome shortcomings if they are not asked for help? A good Crew Leader will always praise their members for what they do well, but sometimes, just to avoid frustrating other people, they may also let the rest go. Of course he exception is when a rule is actually broken and then it has to be addressed...

Maybe my point is too broad because I had nobody in mind. It was just a possible thought relating to why there are a few people who feel that they are unable to progress.