Jessie walks out to what seems like a virtually empty Los Angeles street, as thats where he happened to be that night, He'd been running round extoring shop owners, He'd send Wendy in an she knew what to do alright! They was shifting the blue for Jessie and she knew was just collecting. Jessie was pretty off his face, he'd been hitting the blue for quite a few hours so definatly didnt wanna be in a situation of getting caught an running, really his stummbling around all over the place yo!

Y'know what, I think imma have to sit down on that crate yo, Feeling lazy these days, An since there aint many people around I dont feel the need to stand...

Jessie takes a seat on the crate, gets comfy and takes a hit od the blueeee, He chuffs away for a few and looks like his head just imploded.

Whaaaa man, This shit is mental yo! I think invented something perfect... I added a 1g of chilli powder to the crystalization stage.

So Ive been thinking lately, Mainly where Ive seen people moaning in the streets about dying... When people go down with their ship, Or boat even if tis a small family, And Ive come to the conclusion that the majority of people have once before maybe even a few times not gone down with their "ship" at the time. Thrown up the white flag an run like cowards to whomever would home them...

When is it that people truely give their all for their familys? I hardly see it nowadays... And by giving their all, I mean even fight when your sides losing. At what point did your side lose the battle? Who decides that? Lemme guess... You'll make up the rules as ye go along? If you think you might win you stick around and fight? Ofcourse your gonna run from certain death... But at what point did you stop thinking of your friends that went down first wave... 10 maybe 15 steps?

Jessie chuckles on the crate an takes another hit...

So these guys... that go down first wave... They are like... The ones that the enermy thinks is the most dangerous an most likely to fight back right?... The loyal ones?

This is chosen on a "case by case" basis... Now I ask you, which would you like to be the decent mafioso that was to be seen as an important part of the family or someone who is spared by the enermy?

The problem then is letting go. Dont go into a mindless rage, Maybe bring the correct information to the people that matters attention privately and respectfully other then that... STFU. Its no example to set to the new comers to the shores should there be an influx of boats at any point.

You could say I go down with every ship I sail in really... Most of the time my bloodline is never given the option... and then I get all finger an thumbs when it comes to accepting invites if I do get the option... Ive had some bad experiences in my bloodline of jumping ship other members in the family I joined started getting jealous and pew pewing my BG's as my granfather slept  one time my bloodline managed to... The majority of the time my bloodline is generally taken out first wave, God knows why really.

Another question is, what do you want to be percieved as? The loyal footsoldier... or the pushover that'll go do what daddy tells em?

Eh I feel Ive rambled enoughh its been a long night, an I gotta go, Wendy should be done soon...

Jessie takes another hit of the blue and heads off up the street.

You must go down with your ship, unless you're a cruise ship captain who misfortunatey trips into a life raft then refuses to get back on the ship. Strange how that happens. Loyalty is to the crew who took your worthless carcass off the street and made you into something. When the bullets fly, you should shooting them back, or at the very least, taking one for your boss.

My belife is this, from  the moment you walk into that HQ you signed your life in blood to that family, my bloodline has always belived in this, as my son will learn this one day. even if your boss is killed in cold blood, I belive honoring him/her even if they are dead, is to still go out fighting in the blaze of glory. loyalty has no boundes in my thoughts.

No truer words spoken, I have always beleived that your loyalty goes to the family that takes you in i can handle that thugs ect can walk away but for button men to jump ship is somthing that never sits well with me a button man has earned his bones gone through the initiation process in my book they die with there family.

Hmm.. "worthless carcass"

I take exception to this line of thinking, you see this line of thinking a lot. If I join a family and I'm considered worthless, why the hell would I be trying to throw myself in front of bullets for them? To prove a sense of loyalty to a family that couldn't give a care less?

If a member of my family were to awaken to find their HQ under attack, they would stand and defend, scout out information, offer some kind of protection shot or, gun permitting, would kill who they're directed to shoot. The idea of ship jumping,  or pretending to sleep and hoping you go beneath notice, is disgusting, to me.

That said, I do not think everyone has to feel the way I do. Let's not pretend that family relationships are all the same.. A super sexy family head who protects you and makes you something.. It's crapola. Many family heads, once they've gotten a certain size HQ couldn't give a flying tangerine about the more 'worthless' members, they ignore any banter in their HQ (assuming there's any other than the obligatory "bar", anyway) taking the time only to pass along mass messages, by way of communication. The families will happily take your money in taxes and tributes, expect you to help file witness statement paperwork, expect you to keep your mouth shut and most will fail to notice when those family members beneath them happen to fall over dead. Check out the eulogies given at funerals over the last few weeks, you'll see what I mean.

I guess, what I'm saying is that loyalty and respect are a two way street and many of those in the initial family circle, tend to forget that, unless bullets start to fly...

So, I don't expect that everyone should always go down with the ship, my family has known many a 'leader' that are simply another bold suit, directionless, click monkeyish, worthless. My family tend to choose to end their own life, or have someone do that for them, should they find themselves in this situation, as it's the only way out.. Other people choose not to and will be seen 'jumping ship' when push comes to shove.. I can't judge them all for it, because maybe, just maybe, their dying family aren't worth it.

Shwoopy, an HQ is what the members make of it.

Sure, there is a certain level of expectation on the leader to try and bring the fun. But if you have a family of 50 people, why look to 1 person to create excitement for you? Surely if excitment, banter, fun is the things you crave, why can't you use your intiative and create some yourself?

Some people do frown on such activity in an HQ, many find to see such trivial things brings down the importance of the HQ. Some feel it should be a place where the members go to for their important information pertaining to only them and thats it.

Now personally, I don't support any of these notions. I am more than happy for my members to make their HQ as vibrant, or as quiet, as they like. I may have paid for that building, but I like to think my members call it home and should see fit to entertain themselves how they like within those walls. Some will be reserved and quiet and barely come out their room, others will run around trying to play games and get people involved.

...

Moving back to the original point from Jessie. The term "jumping ship" should only ever relate to someone that leaves a family during a time of war. If someone wakes from their slumber to find their leader dead and happens to find themselves in a position where they are safe from attack, unless they can have some form of impact there really is little point in carrying on the fight. Is it not better to walk away unscathed, but never forget the actions and hope that one day to find yourself in a position to avenge your family (should you feel the desire to, of course).

As you mentioned, your own grandfather took such a route. After the fall of his leader you were granted permission to enter my HQ. At that time your grandfather was unaware the decision was taken to house him while the other leaders made a decision on whether he should be allowed to live or not, given that he was the RHM to the leader they were at war with, and not only that was behind the deaths of some of their own members during that war.

I wouldn't consider your grandfather to have jumped ship in that situation.

Also, you mention your normally killed first wave. But if you look at most organised takedowns, they tend to remove the vast majority of people during a first wave these days. Seldom will you find many people around after a first wave that had the potential to cause any major problems.

To finally and lastly get to the actual point you raised, despite my previous comments, I would always stand and fight in the line of duty as thats just who I am. I've never backed down from a fight regardless of how stacked against me the odds are, there is very little point in doing so. I would rather die than live as someones play thing.

Ultimately I feel it comes down to your sense of Loyalty, if you really did love that family and its leader, you would want to stand and fight. Thats not to say you have to, as mentioned there is always the tactical option of retreating to live another day and avenge later when you can, but lets be honest, with that option most people with any real sense of honour wouldn't then risk the lives of whatever family took them in, simply to avenge their previous family, and if they did do that, is it any worse than the previous alternative? They would have now sullied their family name by "going rogue" and risking their current familys lives with their unsanctioned actions.

So you see there are a number of different routes that can be taken from that one simple little question you posed. Every man and woman thinks differently and acts differently, there is no right or wrong in this life, we are criminals and each have the right to do what we feel is best.

takes a deep breath

Apologies for any rambling, seems I had more to say than I expected, even if I did deviate from the point a little...

Shwoopy, I think you misinterpret Ragnarok a little. It's not that you are worthless until the day you die. You WERE worthless when they picked you up from the streets and they made you into what you are everyday you continue to live thanks to their protection.

And that concept you have about a Crew Leader with a large crew... well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Somebody you know must have worked for some pretty shitty Crew Leader OR he wasn't attentive enough to appreciate all that was being done for him.

The fact that one doesn't have the time to talk for hours on end with 49 other people doesn't mean he doesn't care for them. It's like if we were talking about a President. Let's imagine the ideal President. Is he somebody that spends all his time talking to people or the one that get things done so you stay safe and healthy?

Besides, I believe you think too highly about the taxes a new member pays. It's not the member that pays taxes so the CL has to be grateful. It's the member that has to be grateful that he is allowed to do business at all and get to keep some good money to buy himself nice things.

Anybody that works in a burger joint has lots of money going through his hands, yet not all of it is his, right? Well, it's kind of the same here. If it wasn't for the Crew Leader, you wouldn't even be alive.

"most will fail to notice when those family members beneath them happen to fall over dead." Damn... I can't help but think that whoever thinks that either works for a total dick... or has such an over inflated sense of self worth that he really needs to re evaluate his way of thinking. How does he even know if the Leader notices or not? Was he asked about somebody who died and he went "Huh? Who died? When? My member? Was he? Oh, well... I don't care"

I didn't know a Leader was obligated to attend everybody's funerals to prove they care. Specially when we all know there are some... "supernatural" ways of getting in touch with people who are no longer among us to tell them how we feel and how sorry we are that they have departed.

Abel, I totally anticipated your rebuttals. I am beginning to wonder if you're hankering after some kind of "The Ultimate Mafioso" title, or something. (please note, this is called a gentle teasing)

Right, firstly, I understand taxes. I am not underestimating the importance of them or.. anything. My point was, each member of the family is contributing to those taxes, earning their keep, so to speak. Highlighting the fact that you being in a family isn't all selflessness on your CL's part. Same with the scouting out of local activity, witness statement paperwork and the like.. Point is, family members are pulling their weight, contributing to a bigger thing than themselves... The family/individual member relationship is a two way street.. It's not all about your awesome, caring CL taking you in, giving you a home.

"The fact that one doesn't have the time to talk for hours on end with 49 other people" Complete bull.. You see what I'm doing here, I'm talking to more than one person, hell, could be more than 49. I am better than serveral CLs I've encountered, already. Go me!

I am not sure where you came up with the idea that I expect a family head to converse "for hours on end" one on one with their members.

Abel, I have access to those same coffee shops that you do. My family have been in families where people die (who hasn't, right?) and in a great many, those outside the immediately circle fall, for whatever reason and... silence, no single rose on their casket, no mention in the coffee shop rooms, no comment within the walls of the HQ. It happens, a lot. Please, don't try and pretend it doesn't. They're mere peons, they're not in the closer circle.

I'm not sure what your point with most of these counter arguments is, unless you live in some surreal fantasy land where every single family head is worthy of the suit they're pimping, where every single family head is a legend, or the best leader ever. Your family seriously knows of NO worthless pieces of crap, who have lucked into "running a family"? Really?

Ultimately : "If it wasn't for the Crew Leader, you wouldn't even be alive."  So what? If it wasn't for the family members, the CL would be the lord and master of... Exactly. Two way street.

To be clear, my family have been in some wonderful families, under leaders who were absolutely great, totally worth laying  your behind on the line for. They are out there, I am aware of this. I'm not so ridiculously unlucky to have never encountered some of the good ones. My opinions come from sampling many of the different families that have come and gone, who were or are. Quite simply, some are not worth your loyalty. There, I said it.

__________________

Animal, I don't expect all entertainment to fall to those in charge. This world is what we make it. I do expect that if someone wants to run a family, that they'll try and make some effort to mingle within it. They'll make some effort to offer up some entertainment, that they'd want to do something with their family and their shiny HQ building. If they don't, then they're not the people, for me.

Shwoopy I would be quite interested to hear your opinions on our current crop of crew leaders that we have now.

I highly doubt that, Romeo. It usually leads to people who are not me, being offended.

Just to clarify, that wasn't an underhand snark remark about your leader. Just noticed you're hand title.

It doesn't have to necessarily have to be fun, exciting banter but a little bit of particiaption does go a long way I would agree. But if you aren't up for the task of being a leader, protector and motivator of a whole family, then why take the job? No one asked for them to create excitement for one person, I think is was meant for the family as a whole. You are right though Animal you can't always please everyone all the time, unfortunately.

But then I think I would have asked myself how does a person who doesn't have the same interests get into the crew inthe first place. I, personally, can tell in about 5 minutes of conversation, whether or not the person I am speaking to is someone who I think would fit in with the way I would have a crew. It used to be called selective recruitment. That doesn't mean my feelings for a person don't change over a long period of time and/or more conversation but people usually know who turns them off and on. For example, my first impression of Animal, with all respect, is a good one based on a how you carry yourself. I don't know you and that could change but it's still what people do, they stereotype based on the "evidence" (for the lack of a better word at the moment) provided.

As for being "worthless" until they pick you up, I would never pick up anyone I didn't see potential in. Why the hell would I put my reputation on the line for someone I didn't at least see a future in. In that case they were never "worthless" to begin with. Also, Abel, they have a really sexy way of being interactive with 49 people all at once, you're doing it now. So no, you don't have to have a phone call with 49 people, you do it more publicly like the president does but he does it over the radio. Talks to everyone at the same time, and then you have the choice to mail him or what have you. What's the point of being alive if no one is really lively? And for the record, in my opinion, if want the responsibility of being a "protector" of 50 people you should at least have the respect of paying them their last respects when you failed to protect them.

Shwoopy; To be frank, I really wouldn't be bothered about whether your opinion on me was bad or not, I really have no issue with folk disliking me, normally if they do then there is a good reason for it. We all have bloodlines we don't get on with for one reason or another.

I do realise you weren't making a remark on me though, simply saying that even if you do want to give us your thoughts on todays leaders and that if your comments were to reflect negatively on me, it certainly wouldn't cause me to lose any sleep.

And lets not kid ourselves on, I very much doubt your concern is whether or not to offend people, the concern is what action the offended parties might take. Which is mostly why I had the desire to openly admit you can comment on me how you like, I enjoy seeing people give their own opinion without all the bullshit that so commonly follows it. Whether or not other leaders share the same reaction though is obviously another matter and would be the risk you take if you make public remarks about them.

Animal, that's so damned refreshing. I mean it. You're not expecting me to kiss up to your bold suit, you're not expecting people to automatically hold you in the highest esteem and what's more, you came out here, to the streets and said it. You're not doing it for me, but I appreciate it, none the less.

To my knowledge I'm not familiar with your family line, I have only what I see of you here and recent activity to base an opinion on, I believe we're both aware you're not quite the kind of family head I'm commenting about in a negative light.

You're correct in that I am not concerned about offence I may cause. That said, I don't always feel the need to express something I know will ultimately offend and most likely degenerate into one of those slanging matches that bring the general steet tone down.

Hmm.. "worthless carcass"

I take exception to this line of thinking, you see this line of thinking a lot. If I join a family and I'm considered worthless, why the hell would I be trying to throw myself in front of bullets for them? To prove a sense of loyalty to a family that couldn't give a care less?'

ive always felt this way tbh..but in the other sense if i feel valued by a family i would always go down with the ship

in other cases it has simply been a marriage of convience

make of it what you will

Hmm.. "worthless carcass"

I take exception to this line of thinking, you see this line of thinking a lot. If I join a family and I'm considered worthless, why the hell would I be trying to throw myself in front of bullets for them? To prove a sense of loyalty to a family that couldn't give a care less?'

ive always felt this way tbh..but in the other sense if i feel valued by a family i would always go down with the ship

in other cases it has simply been a marriage of convience

make of it what you will

although if your made you go down with the ship...end of...if theres any doubt in your head you would do so,turning down your button when offered it is the only honourable thing to do imo

Shwoopy, I was sort of covering my ass, I always gave to choices. I basically told you "you have either worked for dicks or you think Crew Leaders owe you". Anything you say will of course point to you trying to prove the Leaders were dicks.

See? You can be predictable as well. By the way, if you already anticipated my rebuttals, you could have saved me the trouble and go further into your reasoning so I wouldn't have to bring these obvious points into the conversation.

And if just standing in the middle of a room or a corner is good enough to count as talking to everybody, then why did you criticize the mass messages earlier? In any case, a Crew Leader has earned the right to relax all they want as long as they appoint somebody to run the family efficiently. So as long as "somebody" is talking to everybody, I really don't care who it is.

To be honest, in all the years my bloodline has been around, only a few times I have heard of Leaders who didn't have a style of running the crew that I liked, but I wouldn't go as far as to question them because that would mean I consider myself better than them and it is not my place to do so.

Only once in all those years did I think a leader was truly messing up in his duty. But he didn't "luck" into having a family. Some people think that bloodline is great to lead a family so every time this certain person was in power he authed this other guy whom my ancestor worked for.

Maybe I made a mess of what I was trying to say. But let me boil it down to the following, you have every right to think a Leader is a piece of shit not worthy of his role, but people much more powerful than you and me thought he was good for the job, so it is very seldom that we see a leader that everybody agrees that did a bad job. And that certainly doesn't happen often enough to justify all the crap that people talk about bad leaders.

The points of all my arguments is that you may say you don't like the way a leader runs his crew, but you come here talking like you are in a position to judge them. And I don't believe you are.

And yes, two way street... to a certain point. Any Crew Leader had to work hard to get to the point of running a family, so I don't think it's fair for any new comer to treat a Leader like an equal or to expect a nice treatment because he's making money for the family. They are supposed to. Only those members who really pull the family forward and get all the kills and make the millions are the ones who can sort of expect things from the Crew Leader.

I understand all the comments about attending funerals. The point is that my bloodline never really survived a war where many of their people died and they always made sure that their members knew what they thought of them while they were alive. there was really nothing left to say at a funeral.

sometimes people go to funerals just to save face and not because they really feel it. When lots of people die, different people grieve in different ways. Some may not be able to stomach having to visit so many sad places and have to watch loved one after loved one just to pay a final respect.

And after I say all this... I notice he committed suicide... Shakes his head.

Oh, well, I hope his next of kin is somewhere listening to this... If not, well... What can you do, huh?

Walking the streets he hears an interesting debate taking place. One of the most interesting he's heard since he's been apart of this world. Hoping not to make a fool of himself, while at the same time, trying to throw some fuel on the fire a question comes to mind

"I consider myself extremely loyal to those who gave me a place to rest my head and make money to feed myself. The feeling I have deep inside is that if anything was to happen to my family, whether I'm in a position to do so or not, I would be there for them ready to give my life. There's only one thing that crosses my mind when it comes to whether or not I'd pull my gun, which honestly I would not think twice about if my family were under attack or needed my piece, and that's if the Godfathers put a Protection Notice out for those who harmed my family. Natural instinct for me would be to still get blood until the day my heart stopped beating. But in return does that make me a person worthy of respect, someone known by my peers as an extreme loyalist, OR would I and my children, should i choose to have any, be considered as a rogue blood line? Morally how would you feel?

Sits back and thinks about the question that has popped up in his mind, He's not wondering what he would do, just what public opinion would be on this.

Two points.

One: I aint on no ship. I hate ships. I was born on land and I'm staying on land. Also, fuck your "figure of speech" crap, just saying.

Two: Does loyalty go to the city first or the family first. If your CL dies, but your city wins a war, do you die an unsponsored because of your "unwavering loyalty" to your family? Do you die because of some misconception that seems to be floating around such as "you walk in your HQ, you can only leave in a body bag"? Pray, tell.