Drieza stepped out in front of the audience outside of New York town hall, hands clasped behind his back and a slight grin on his face.

“Was Bathsheba an idiot? It seems like one of the simplest questions anyone could ask. And I’m sure everyone’s answer would vary some but lean in a similar direction.”

A small pause.

“Bathsheba was one of the first cases of paranoia, in my opinion, but surprisingly one of the few cases this country has seen in recent memory.”

Drieza coughed into his hand and continued.

“I will be one of the first to admit that this country has been, for the most part, stabilized and healthy. Well, to a degree. Many people have come together to work together, for the first time in this country’s history. People that have in past and practice – shot each other’s ancestors many times over. Geralt’s grandfather has shot my grandfather. Big Si’s grandfather has shot my grandfather. Just a couple example to throw into the wind and I know I’m missing many names from that list.

And here the country is thriving with organized crime and building towards a better future than those who didn’t give chances in the past. And LittleSi has brought up a very good article that I wish I had the time to properly reply to, but it’s a reminder to stay true to ourselves and be better than those who came before us. An inner conflict, that I must admit, I struggle with at times myself. Maybe the demon in me wants to come out at times, but I control that demon to the best of my ability. The world doesn’t deserve the practice of my ancestors, which have been known for a no bullshit policy. Some have called me soft for this, but I call it growth.”

He grimaced at the thought of twigs being a hand in Detroit but steadied his focus.

“So after nearly five months of the solidarity in this change of an era, the people of this country have proven that they DO deserve a chance. Three wars later and a rogue, this country has proven to have restraint and self-control. A chance they weren’t given previously by the former regime.

That said, we circle back around to my question at hand. Was Bathsheba an idiot? My personal thoughts are… yes, she was. She cried and complained about people not getting a chance when everyone killed has had reasoning behind it. Agreed with or not. Some lied about who they were. Some lied about their skills in using a gun. For the first time in a long time, we finally have gained back some of our dignity and brought back some old school etiquette. We HAVE redeemed ourselves as a society.

Enzo? He went to war and Enzo lost. Optimus? War and loss. The Chicago takedown? Warred over and lost.

The only idiot we’ve had for nearly half a year has been Bathsheba. Someone who claimed they were next on the chopping block after seeing Chicago die from preparing for a war and getting their ass handed to them for doing so. A preemptive strike that saved lives. Going to war and making that choice as a leader of this country is not going rogue. There’s a fine and distinctive difference. Bathsheba claimed she was next after the war when she was hand to a leader and put his life in jeopardy with her choices. She could’ve caused deaths to people who gave her a chance to thrive and succeed.

Luckily, cooler heads prevailed and showed empathy. If anything, she will only be remembered for the downright disrespect she showed to her crewleader and the trust that was given to her.

No one pushed on Bathsheba. Were some of her remark’s stupid? Yes… yes, they were. Getting a side eye for saying something bizarre isn’t the same as being next on the chopping block, because there is no chopping block. There is no list. There is no obsession with head hunting certain individuals, regardless of whether they deserve a taste of their own medicine that they delt out for multiple years.

You lie? You die. And personally, I don’t let people contribute absolutely nothing to my family and continue to just go about their merry way. If you’re no use to me in some form, you don’t just get to build yourself up on my time or dollar. That’s the policy of Bridge Four.”

Drieza looked solemn.

“Am I perfect? No. Are we flawed as individuals? Yes. Was Bathsheba an idiot? I want to hear your answer to that question.”

He clenched his fist.

“Personally, her ancestors don’t amount to shit in the years that she held this country down with her thumb and held no moral high ground. She’s nothing compared to what this regime has accomplished in six months. She said we didn’t have a high moral code…

But that’s easy to say from someone who has NO moral code or respect for what people around here can accomplish whenever they are simply given the chance to do so. And I will repeat it for the world to hear, because I’m not bothered to do so. Even though Big Si died… LittleSi has a point. We are better than the previous regime and better than OUR OWN ancestors. At least morally. And that’s something we should be proud of.

People were given the chance to be loyal to their families… and people are doing just that. To the criminals of this world, you make me proud to be a part of it. Although I’m just a small part of it. A collective of more than those who won the war against the former regime have made this a redemption arc. 

Thoughts and opinions are welcome here. Please.”

He stepped back and awaited educated conversation.

I stepped forward, a curl of smoke drifting up from the Cuban cigar in my hand, though more of it seemed to rise from me than the leaf itself.

Godfather Drieza, I won’t pretend I know the weight of what came before I arrived. I wasn’t here for the regime change, the wars, or whatever bloodlines were hunting each other in the dark. That history belongs to the ones who lived it.

But I was here for Bathsheba. I saw that part with my own eyes.

I didn’t witness the paranoia you’re describing, or the whispers she claimed were circling her. What I did see was one decision that could have turned Detroit into a graveyard before sunrise. One moment that put every last one of us at risk for nothing but fear and imagination.

And what burns me most is the danger she put SlimRagnarok in.

He trusted her. He made her his left hand. That is not a small thing where I come from. And she answered that trust by lighting a fuse under the entire city, a fuse that could have taken him down with the rest of us.

I would have died before letting anything happen to him. I have died before and I would die again for him without hesitation. That kind of loyalty does not fade with death, it follows you back when you rise.

I owe him that. So watching her throw his life into the fire for no reason at all, that still sits wrong in my chest.

So my answer is simple, Godfather.
Yes. She acted like an idiot, and worse, a dangerous one.

Loyalty matters. Respect matters. Knowing the weight of your own position matters. Detroit stands because the rest of us remembered those things, even when she didn’t. And for those who forget them in the future, the streets will remind them the same way they reminded her. Some lessons come with warnings, others with consequences. She chose the latter.

The smoke around me thinned, then drifted apart as I stepped back, fading into the quiet like I had never been there at all.

I have it on good authority that Bathsheba expressed on multiple occasions a strong dislike for UglyInbredGeorge, who was handsome, with a normal DNA structure, and was regularly praised for having such. I believe on this basis, and this basis alone, that she could not have held anything more than a questionable grasp over her mental faculties. Was it this chemical irregularity that led her to murder someone who, for some reason, called himself 'Oliver Twist'? Even the wisest of us can agree that is quite an embarrassing moniker. I will say, for my part, I am extremely loyal to LittleSi, to the tune of nearly 4600 dollars donated directly into his coffers. And soon, he will make me a Made Man and I will be fawned over at my ceremony like a prized Schnauzer. That's what makes this whole thing work. That's what puts the sausage in the bun. twigs, back me up. 

What to say in the Streets about this? Well, objectively, Bathsheba made an idiotic decision without any logical evidence to support it. She held a left hand position to the Godfather Chairman of Detroit, a city she had resided in for months and enjoyed nothing but success in. 

However, nothing here is viewed objectively. Everything is predicated on lineage and coffeeshop friendships. Bathsheba was therefore not solely seen as that, the left hand to a Godfather Chairman, and instead she was viewed through the lens of Marie, former regime lickspittle and mass purge facilitator. She ultimately saw herself through that lens as well, causing her to believe she would be assassinated for that lineage regardless of anything she did now and her current standing was therefore irrelevant.

Is that an idiotic view when there are plenty around right now who believe the descendants of those who participated in the regime to whatever capacity should be punished into perpetuity for those actions? One does not have to put their ear particularly close to the ground to hear the mutterings that if they had held the reins she wouldn't have gotten as far as she did. When there are people around right now who want me dead for things generations old and will probably pine for that outcome for my children and their children's children, should we really label her an idiot for believing something that is actually the popular expectation in some quarters? 

To me, the answer to that is no. Reaching the conclusion she would be killed for being Marie's daughter and choosing to jump before she is pushed does not make her an idiot. But, I don't agree with that expectation. I think that the more you hardline people, and the further underground you force them, the more resentful and unlikely to divert from their coffeeshop friendships they become. You are in fact, in my opinion, reinforcing the very behaviours you seek to eradicate. Purging descendants to punish ancestors does not work. It only perpetuates the cycle. Those relationships harden. The clique supersedes family because you've made family meaningless. And in the end all you are left with is the same group of people looking at each, pinching their noses and wondering how to make something out of this mountain of shit they've created. 

So knowing how I feel, and how Slim feels, she would not have been pushed for being the daughter of Marie. She was told that on day one. She chose to disregard what she was told and that makes her an idiot. 

I can agree with mostly everyone in here. What Bathsheba did was awful and put Slim and the rest of Detroit in a pretty awful situation through her own careless reasoning.

I will say though, I feel several people did antagonize her at times and maybe it was a major factor in her roguing? Though, it was weird for her to target someone who never antagonized her, but rather someone she, or others that may have been controlling her shot, targeted. I also believe the reasoning for some people to make fun or even antagonize her was that her bloodline, despite being marred from her mother doing something idiotic and ignorant, she was still a Made Man and worked her way up to a LHM for Mr SlimRagnarok. I would think that in itself is an honorable thing. Slim saw past (or didn't see it at all due to his family just arriving recently) what her line had done, or hadn't done, and promoted her based on merit and in the end? She tossed it all away.

I also agree with LittleSi. I know how things are and things aren't exactly easy to manage every single person in the country, trying to figure out loyaltys or people who may pull a Bathsheba, but really in the end, I feel trust is a key factor in each and every person, but I also think the same people who have bloodlines who have been naughty or up to no good recently, they have to give something in return for their crew leader trusting them, otherwise I feel we will only have people who look down and go "Oh, I don't know who this man is. He's a strong and and has some bodyguards, best get rid of them .. Just in case". And I would know, I routinely look at people whom I don't know and think to myself, would they rogue? Would they do it? I don't know most of the people and I am not important nor do I reasonably care enough to put any kind of influence down to figuring every single person out.

People will do as they please if that is their goal. Most people just want to sell drugs, chat with their friends and hopefully move up from their, and their bloodlines stations, and I can applaud that.

"I appreciate the involvement and educated conversation. As I said before, every opinion here is welcomed and heard. There will never be consequence to challenging one of my speeches. 

The topic and title of my speech is for the purpose to draw in eyes. Do I believe that Bathsheba was really an idiot? No, not truly. I might've rolled my eyes at some of the things that she talked of in the street and coffeeshops, but she was well spoken and intelligent. Someone I might fancy to parlay with in debate because I selfishly like being challenged. Did she make an idiotic decision? In my view, yes she did. And I'm going to touch on what some other people have said that brings some things into perspective later. However, I do not know Bathsheba in any form or fashion. It's impossible for me to speak on her character, but I can certainly speak on her actions and the decision that derived from that.

Ghostof2011, as always you're a man who loves his involvement and I'm glad the topic of this conversation didn't have those of Detroit shy away from talking about it. And I want to emphasize one of the key points you brought up. She literally could've gotten a Godfather killed who was at that time put in a dog shit position. She's hand. One of the top two people you trust most. Put your life in jeopardy. Not only that, but made the entire city uncomfortable with what people make a instinct reaction. Who might have to die for this, or will it be fine? Will compensation be enough? Should we say fuck it and shoot first?

It's a knot in your stomach and a situation that holds you reliable, and a hint of feeling like a piece of shit when those weren't even your OWN actions. Sometimes it's worse when it comes to someone you trusted fully and entirely. If my right or left were to go rogue, I would be devastated and uncomfortable. Fortunately, I'd guarantee my life on my hands, Taupe and Effort. I'd put my own bullet in my head if they proven me wrong on that statement. That's how much I trust them. 

And what I'm saying isn't a shot at SlimRagnarok in the slightest. We've known each other for a very long time, along with our ancestors. We both share a love for old school etiquette and playing our own roles in the streets. He has never been a malicious person. This about the shitty situation he was put in.

TextBasedMafiaRPGMan, keep up the good work and reverse those donations. Can't let Little Si get an ego. 

Little Si, I knew this would be right up your alley. Especially given your speech given recently. And you know what I respect about you, as always? You challenged the narrative and make some points that I think everyone visiting can relate to. Her decision? Stupid, she should've trusted in Detroit. Her line of thinking? Not far off at all and when you flip the coin in the air, it's a guess which way it will land. I don't think it's unfair to say she might've asked herself what she would do in her situation. She was outspoken against a more liberal system than previously and probably saw some others die that she found unacceptable in reasoning. She not an idiot and my head cannon paints that story as an explanation. To think she was cornered into a spot that she felt she had to fight out of, I will challenge. Maybe I was missing something, but I don't buy that from her decision. 

But to touch on probably the most important aspect you brought up. People literally want to kill people based off problems that goes back generations, much less a few months ago. When this era is built off people killing each other constantly in the past and trusting in each other to build a future when people don't die for just being in the country for forty days. And that is our demon and darkest cloud that hangs over our society. You said it best yourself, we need to be better and keep ourselves in check. Your father died because he was outspoken and that sort of thing stands out. People think if they fade into the background, which has been practice to live in the former regime, they can slide under the radar. And they do in a lot of cases. There's always people out there who want their next trophy kill and bloodlines are their trophy kills. I stand with you. We need to be better. We can be better. We've proven it with this redemption arc. We can continue it. 

TonyTheTailor, it's always Darwin's fault and I agree there were red flags with Bathsheba. Trust, in history, has sometimes gotten people killed sadly. 

beluga, I wish I had a better response for you, but I simply agree with everything you said and coverd some in previous points. Well said and you deserve all the tips, my friend. Actually, don't tip him. Fucking whale. 

And to the cheap ass that put a hit on me for a quarter million, we are better than you morally and you should come out here and speak your mind with a promise of no repercussion from me. I could die in my sleep tonight and not give one single fuck about it. My family is in good hands."

I've given everyone here a little listen to. I've had a few conversations elsewhere regarding this very topic so I suppose I will openly share some thoughts on it. 

I think Bathsheba made an idiotic choice of action. That being said, it is not unusual on these shores to think that people are going to kill you or at the very least want you dead. The risk is likely higher the longer your line has been around. Chances are if you have an enemy or two, that the likelihood is pretty high that someone would not be sad to see your funeral arrive sooner than later. 

I know it has taken my line a very long time to come to terms with the fact that your bloodline, if known, is likely going to not be forgotten in actions no matter how long it has been. Some people will think your line will remain the same as it was many ancestors ago. Not many will care if it is true or not though. Sometimes you have to take a risk and see what happens. By some risk, I mean you have to put some faith in the people that have taken you into their crew and allowed you to rank up. Sometimes it will not work out, like my ancestor in BobTheBuilder's family and sometimes it does, such as the time my line joined RobOakheart's family. 

Either way though your ancestor's patterns will tend to stick in the minds of the journals passed down that may mention it. If your line are known to rogue, your kin may be treated with kid gloves. If your kin is known to leak information, you may not be trusted. I am sure there are plenty of more examples. It is nice if you can find a leader that will not hold the past against you, Bathsheba seemed to have found that only to screw it up though. 

It is what it is. 

Was Bathsheba an idiot? No question. Who's more of an absolute moron though, Bathsheba for going rogue and then being put down like a dog, or Enzo who killed a few people and then got his entire district and the person who authed him executed? It's quite the toss-up.

So, after almost a month, this comes up as a topic. You called a rogue an “idiot.” Creative. Hm. Clearly, they had a good effect then.

You guys haven’t been purging that much but there has been “assessment” made on threats and executions, same as we would do. We could argue about what’s a purge and what’s not… But how many times have you killed innocent-LF now? Didn’t you shoot everyone at a conference last month when Bath went off? Purging descendants does work… It’s just not ideal, but it is what it is. ALL OF THAT IS FAIR PLAY. GOOD PLAY. CAN’T KNOCK THE HUSTLE.

Everyone is being assessed as a threat or not a threat. Ocular pat-downs all around. We did the same, and that was a lot of her point in going off blastin’.

“When I said you were purging, I was not whining about it.  I understand this is how one remains in power.  I was holding up a mirror to show the kettle you were calling black was the same color your pan was.  You hold no moral high ground.” - Bathsheba

But to call her an “idiot”… For whatever reason, she decided to rogue and shoot someone part of a Numbered Group that is part of the whole oil and water dynamic. Maybe she felt it was the right time… Parenthetically, Spicoli was actually the intended target as he was about to take godfather, for her own personal reasons and their own history (which would’ve been funnier/hilarious had he been in Chicago at the time). The type of shit I'm on, you wouldn't understand... We all know that would've been a good laugh, but instead his RH took the bullet in the head. 

Maybe she felt or knew personally because of her own Honored bloodline, she was already being watched and marked for death at some point, or at least marked much like TheFatController was ordered dead when Grin went into the grinder… Maybe she felt DT’s days were coming to an end too and her safety was in question… The city is still literally hanging by a… twig… but Raga was in the wrong place or right place at the wrong or right time. And it’s funny he died. Point at the corpse on the curb and giggle.

Was it shitty for her to rogue from DT? Well, maybe she didn’t think the city would do what it should… Maybe she thought it would stand still and get shot. Maybe her path was a better one, maybe it wasn’t. Maybe she was just bored. Does it suck for DT? Sure, and I’m sure that in some way, she feels badly for that… It wasn’t even some deep deep betrayal or confidence game. DT is not the power house or shot-caller for things. It is subservient and answers to a higher power.

Switching back, your pals rogued plenty of times in the last year or two, many y’all cheered for. It’s partially how you guys got to take over this time. Are we calling you’sall “idiots” or was rouging something we saw as a strategy used to fuck with us? Revenge, bloodfueds, gangsta shit.

Is this just more of y’all’s whining, while winning too? Is the smell bothering you, is it the rotting body of Raga or the decomposing IA uppers that’s wafting?

Were your guys safe before y’all was in power then? Probably not either, but in some cases, we determined some people to be safe, but they still rogued. It’s how this world works. Murders and executions. Give people chances; they choose to stay in line or not. Trust sometimes breeds trust, but oftentimes, through descendants, they already know where they stand. Are they actually loyal, just sheep, or are they warriors with their personal agency that want to cause a ruckus? Bring da ruckus.

So again, I find it all funny. Ace died and went inactive, Spicoli as his pet project. Cause and effect. So, again, now you're all up in here talking about it a month later, wounded... It clearly made y’all feel something watching that corpse bleed out for the last month. Someone get a mop. He be stinkin’.

Fuck a beat, I go acapella.

Bullets, gore, and death coming at ya nest,

Keep the bodies droppin’ and a vest on ya chest,

It’s what we ganstas in this world does best,

Keep on churning while them instigators stir

The words you spit be fallin’ flat, amateur

And step it back playa while da crowd applauds her.

But to call a rogue an “idiot” is just silly. They made a choice. They hit a good target. They got the trophy. Was cool to see TwentySeven die too, scalps. Nothing “idiotic” in that. Did he get a lot of Obit posts or his Durdens? Claps all around. Thank you.

Keep getting frustrated, but please keep active. Especially you, Coldhands.

P.S.

Cin, what happened to RobOakfart? That ideal/strategy didn’t work. He died. It was a lackluster and very short era… Lasted like barely two months. Not sure why you keep bringing it up and keep putting it on a pedestal. It’s a tiny chip of eggshell in a much bigger omelet. He died with very little to say... 

"I'm bait and I always have been." Fits quite nicely here. 

Purging descendants does work…

The lack of awareness is staggering.

To this day, and more than likely till I die, Bathsheba's actions weigh heavy on my heart. The passing of time hasn't eased the hurt that her lack of trust in me caused. Her lack of regard for the entire city of Detroit was idiotic. Her going on a rogue rampation was idiotic. The damage she caused was idiotic. 

Bathsheba was a very intelligent and bright soul in our crew. Well spoken and measured in her thoughts. Never once did she every give me a moments hesitation in her loyalty to me or this city. Even after coffee shop comments and whispers reached my ears and we had a long conversation about expectations and standards, I still believed in my decision and her place within this organization.

With all of that being said, her final actions where idiotic. The loss of lives for no reason other than her own paranoia can't be excused. She made an idiotic mistake that caused damage beyond just lost lives. Somewhere out there, her kin and her kins friends will hear my words and say what they want about my thoughts. Go for it. Come for my throat if you wish. 

I'm not typically one for rogue-related drama, and I was not yet within this world when the events mentioned here transpired, but I feel like throwing in my short little opinion to this matter based on my short bit of experience.

Typically, when someone rogues, they have a specific target in mind, sometimes extending to their nearest associates if they have extra time to kill, literally, assuming they aren't put down immediately or given protection by assisting street hoodlums.

Under normal circumstances, just the targets and generally the rogue themselves goes down. Often, the targets might tend to survive the whole ordeal anyway. When they go off trail and shoot at random people who tend to have nothing to do with the whole matter though, that just points out to me you either missed your target, can't hit your target, or have become incredibly paranoid time as running out and need to get a shot off, regardless of who it might be. Even if it's some lowly wise guy who's only made his rounds for a couple weeks or, notably, a common gangster simply sitting by on our shores doing absolutely no harm.

Having some of my lineage murdered by a random rogue a couple times many years ago, it just begs the question of was it even worth it? Why bother going after someone random if you aren't going after the people you had beef with initially (or, if you actually got them, anyone you know was "related" to such in whatever justification you have at that time, not that it's guaranteed to hold true).

I think there's a good chunk of people who care not for the politics of this life in any way shape or form and thus should be left to their own devices when not dealing with the matters of crew takedowns or leadership removal, as those tend to justify themselves. Rogues I don't think can be stopped entirely, not with the years of backlogged drama and rivalries still present today. Kind of a rotten disease every regime ends up dealing with eventually.

To me it just seems stupid to both rogue in general and then not go after whoever you were targeting to begin with or drag people completely unrelated into the mess. Same thing for blaming the city or head of the crew the rogue hailed from; assuming said leadership had no part in their actions, why should they be blamed for the actions of an individual who broke their own trust and went awol on their own doing? It's not like they rubbed their hands together evilly and ordered their minions to cause some terrorism for fun. Hopefully, at least. What's the benefit of that anyway? Now your crew is weaker and under the heat of being the one who spawned a rogue; doesn't seem like the most beneficial outcome.

I like Jeffrey_Lebowski's cardigan.

For anyone that thinks TheDude's death was random... He was a leader in Chicago. Bath had just shot the RH to the head of Chicago (after finding that Spicoli, the head, wasn't in Chicago). Chicago was a target. It was not random. He was unproed. He was a target as a benefactor and ally of Chicago (and others). It forced Chicago to have to come up with yet another auth after the slaughter they had committed on Old Chicago. Drain resources which are already clearly thin. Scramble. Be a pain in the ass. Good tactic. Some might say smart. 

It is a farce to forget, you are all born into this world and you all go out of this world with a bullet in the head. It has to happen sometime. Can't take it too rough. It's part of this thing of ours. Enjoy being above ground while it lasts, if you enjoy living. 

I'm glad to answer that question!

There was a conference going on. Spicoli was likely only hours away from Godfather, and things were short-staffed (and distracted with Everclear and the like, and not letting the whole conference in on what was going on) on getting locals etc. So Chicago was picked as the city he would most likely be in, but unfortunately, that was wrong (but there were backup targets, Raga etc). So there was a tasty Raga to slit open and bleed out...

Eh, as for the first shot not being so personal or the primary, Raga is main part of the Numbers Group TTT. That's a pretty sweet treat, and it did fuck over Spicoli too a bit so it covered most of the objectives there, except the whole kill-before-GF troll. 

Maybe someday Bathsheba's family line will gain the smallest sliver of a self-preservation instinct and stop following Spike's stinky ass feet around. She might be able to stand on her own instead of continuously going off 1/8th cocked at Spike's behest with no knowledge and making a grade-a doofus out of herself.

Today is likely not that day, but I hold hope.