Donnie im pretty sure lancelot clearly stated manius was offered a city months ago but didnt want to head a city so that really isnt a valid question when it has already been answered ...

And i will say again, that was when Marston was godfather and i am asking why didnt they offer him city when marston died

Circumstances had changed from when Manius was last offered his own city, without Marston alive anymore he might've felt it the best option to move to another city to avoid what transpired over the last 48 hours.

Still a very valid question.

Valid to what extent.

You think someone wants to kill you so you move him to another city???

Are you really asking that???

I'll answer that question shall I

By the time the decision had been made to remove Manius' crew too much had already gone on, yes we saw Manius and his crew as a threat so we weren't excactly going to put him in an even stronger position now were we, whether you choose to believe things or not that is entirely your own decision but the fact remains he wanted two of the 3 remaining CL's dead and had lobbied to have them killed over the last couple of months, my job as city head is to protect my city and those in it, do i really do nothing and risk losing two CL's or do i act and remove the threat?, so no i never gave him the option of moving to another city as i knew he wouldn't have taken it anyway and if he did would have posed even more of a threat down the road.

Sure Jack, that's exactly what I'm asking...

*facepalms*

I am saying it is a very valid question because getting out on his own could have given him a fresh outlook on life. As much as I didn't like Manius, he was no dumbass and wouldn't have dared to take on NY even with his own city as he knew NY would have backup from elsewhere. Not many people like to like 49 other members of their family to an early grave you know?

Time is a great healer... time out of the proverbial frying pan (New York) could have cooled things down... it would have at least been a while until he tried to make a move on New York and by then... if all the rumours of his "group" wanting to take people out turned out to be true, he would've probably had to deal with the full force of every city.

Don't patronise me or put words in my mouth Jack, I'm not an idiot and can speak for myself thank you very much.

Ok thats what i was looking for so instead of all those short speeches you could just say Manius is too awesome to stay alive so we had to kill him. I appriciate time you took to answer me Lancelot, i wish you and your city all best.

Donnie he is not saying Manius is "To Awesome" he is saying if he put manius into another city he would cause more of a threat manius was potentially closing in on gf points and had about a month and a bit left so if he was given a city and reaching godfather would cause more problems aswell and also if they let him live they could have built bigger guns and it would have just caused even more hell awesomeness had nothing to do with it

And there you go, Donnie. A perfectly reasonable response. Lancelot made the decision as he figured it was a better way to protect his city from any possible aftermath of Manius moving to another city. Godfathers, or acting Godfathers have to make decisions that will curry favour from some people and be pissed on by others.

However, to me it sounds like he's speaking from the heart and with love for his city when he said he believed he was protecting his brethren. Like it or loathe his reasoning, he made the decision and backed it up with conviction... a trait ALL Godfather's must have or they will never become successful, whether people like them or not for it.

After being in the office for several hours on end, going over many different types of paperwork, a number of times, Sammy rubs his eyes, and checks his watch.

"Oh man, is that the time!?"

Sammy immediately jumps up from his chair, brushes down his shirt, grabbing his coat as he heads for the door. He still had mud, dirt, and blood on his shirt from the days events, but quickly covered them up with his overcoat, buttoning it up at the front and continuing out the door and onto the streets of New York.

It was much quieter in the city than it had been for several months, but he knew somewhere out there, there would be a lot of people asking a lot of questions, and casting a great number of accusations around. He continued on his way, and as he did, the faint sound of outroar began to grow louder, and louder, until finally, he reached the crowd of people gathered around Lancelot.

Sammy then stepped up and stood a few feet behind Lancelot, letting him speak. After he had finished, to many peoples amazement, he took a seat, and watched the various people become angry and upset at the now current leadership of New York. A few hours passed, and people were still at it. He knew he needed to try and set the record straight.

"As Lancelot has already said, there were reasons for this war. Manius was not trusted by the other leaders of New York, and hadn't been trusted for a number of weeks."

Sammy wiped his mouth with his hand, and took a deep breath.

"My personal distrust came about when I received a telegram from our then Godfather Marston. The telegram simply stated that because of remarks I made in a coffee shop, Manius wanted me dead. Having the respect for Marston though, he didn't shoot me, and instead talked to Marston, and requested that I be killed. Above all else, this shows loyalty to the then Godfather, and I thank him for that. It would have been quiet easy enough to have me killed using his own methods, and without speaking to Marston.

"However, this news obviously left a bad taste in my mouth. Not being a crew leader at the time, but knowing about what the future held for me, I couldn't believe a man I was eventually going to be working very closely with, wanted me dead. It was from this moment, that my personal distrust for Manius began"

Sammy then sighed heavily, and continued.

"After becomming a crew leader in the city, I didn't receive any sort of communication from Manius. Naturally, one would have expected at least a short welcome message of sorts, but no, there was nothing. This indicated to me that Manius was not happy with me becomming a crew leader, he clearly did not like me, and probably didn't trust me.

"My father then heard of the, what everybody seems to have skipped over, matter of Manius hiding pro'ers from the rest of the city. When the city was at war, pro'ers were requested from Manius' family. He responded with the fact he didn't have any. Now, whereas it is rather strange for a whole family to not have any pro'ers, it is slightly possible. This posibility erased itself when statements were received that Manius' members had been receiving pros from other members of his family. Slightly strange to see when you have been told that the family didn't have pro'ers for the city to use. Clearly Manius valued his own families well being over that of the city. Quite bad to hear when you are supposed to be working as one close unit."

Sammy once again wiped his mouth. He never expected to talk quite so much on the subject.

"After this event had happened, why would anybody that knew this information trust Manius to work with the city as a whole? I certainly didn't, and neither did the other leaders.

"Now we skip forward to Marston's unfortunate gun malfunction. After this, Marston's son arrived in New York, bearing a letter from a deposit box that was to be opened in the event of Marston's death. I think it is pretty clear what was included in this letter, and we as leaders respected our late Godfather's wishes and carried them out. However, we didn't do so immediately, as Manius was now talking to us as though we had been life long friends. After showing he had a problem with myself, and one with Apples, we apparently now 'had a friend in him' quiet unbelievable when you consider what I have already said. This caused us to distrust him even more, and made the attack inevitable."

Sammy sighs again, looking over the mass amount of people gathered for Lancelot's explanation.

"Manius is now dead though, and I do not wish to unnecesarily drag his name through the dirt any more. He ran an exceptional family, and it was a very tight ship. It is clear to see how well this family was ran by the trouble they gave us in completely wiping them out. Even though the odds were stacked incredibly against them, they carried on, with Manius and Ire in particular continuing for a several number of consecutive hours. I must take my hat off to them, they truly did fight an amazing battle.

"I would like to wish that Manius and The Joy Division Rest in Peace, as well as every fallen member of The Regiment, Original Sin, and L'alleanza Leale. They will all be missed dearly."

Sammy nods gently towards the gathered crowd, before sitting back down, hoping to have cleared at least a couple of points up.

Wait.

Lancelot is the city head of New York?

Oh god, they're all going to be dead inside a week...

Well it is nice to know PG that when faced with a threat your choice is to move them to another city to grow even stronger.

Most crew leaders when they obtain info that someone is a clear and present danger to their family/city would work to take them out to neutralise the threat.

I do however applaud your stance and should it occur in las Vegas I will watch to see how your recommended course of action works, you could be on to something new.

one last post just for you badfellas :)

As we saw Manius wasnt strong enough to take NY down and Lancelot himself said that Manius would be threat in future, so if you all thought that Manius was able to gain a lot of power in 1 or 2 months that at some point he is able to take out city like new york then Manius must be awesome. My personal opinion is killing people just becouse they can get powerfull in future is just not good way, i mean what if manius son comes back. Should people kill him too? just becouse he might become godfather one day.

Nice words PimpGravy.

Puffin listened in to the big speech after his attention was grab with a ring through the air and the smell of gun power.

Puff decided to lean on a light post and then watched over the man speaking, As the last words come to the speech Puff nodded with agreeableness.

Before Puff left the area he bowed his head and under his breath he said with a light tone "May those that lost their lives please rest in peace folks."

"Kill him for being to awesome? Kill him just because he might become Godfather one day? Did you even listen to what Lancelot, Sammy, and Apples have said? They are giving you reasoning and you refuse to pay it any bit of attention. You just keep asking a question that has no relevance to any reasoning stated. How can they answer a question that had nothing to do with the actual war? Do you need the reasons numbered to help you distinguish them?"

Jack, I do not fear my enemies, I relish them. If that situation happens in Las Vegas and (God forbid) I am running my city, I'll be making sure I throw it in your face that I let them leave my city for the sake of a fragile peace that might not last.

Manius wasn't an immediate danger, considering him and Ire had the best guns and couldn't hit IWPs. Or did that fact just float over your head through your rage tinted specs? Manius was a looming danger, admittedly... immediately, not at all. Manius isnt/wasnt stupid enough to attempt a takedown without being sure they could actually take them down.

I realise you're hurting right now, perhaps you should spend some of your time mourning the loss of your fellow compadres, instead of shitting on the memory of a former leader. I  think that would be of much better use to yourself right now.

Love.. don't hate.

So let me get this right PimpGravy.

If Godfather Jelly was to find out that you are conspiring to remove 2 of his CLs, you would expect him to just send you and your crew off to another city in hopes that you won't continue to plot and scheme against his city?   Is that what you are saying?   That you can just sweep a problem under the rug by sending it off?   Really?   That is what you are saying to us? 

haha, Galahad.

Where did I ever mention ANYTHING about PJ? Another one putting words in my mouth? Really?

I said *I* would do these things

I

I

I

I

I

I

I

I

Not Lancelot.

Not PJ.

Not the feckin' Queen.

ME. I would do these things. I've never implied that Lancelot should do ANYTHING other than what he has done, I merely pointed out Donnie's question was a valid one and a possible option that COULD have transpired, I even agreed with and praised Lancelot's reply to it.Not once have I told Lancelot that he should've moved Manius to another city. Considering Lancelot and I are exchanging views personally and it is quite a jovial conversation, I don't think he believes I'm telling him or PJ what they should do. So why the hell are you?

Try reading more than just one of my posts before replying, eh?

Engage brain before putting mouth into action.

I can see your angry PimpGravy but you should read what Galahad typed again this time he was asking a valid question doesnt matter who the godfather is if a godfather found out you were consipiring against two of thats godfather's family leaders do you really think they are just going to send you off to your own city?

Lol poor pg

How am I shitting on a leaders memory?

Donnie asked a question it got answered. Clearly people saw Manius as enough of a threat to be taken out. Just because a gun can't hit an Iwp doesn't diminish the potential threat. It is a poor crewleader that dismisses a threat soley on the fact that the threat can't shoot the leader. What of the 40+ other members?

Don't they count