I'm not going to comment on what Godfathers should say or do, Sinfest. It's not my place to tell them what they should do with their cities. I wouldn't expect it from anybody... as I've already pointed out, this is something *I* would do, it's not something I would try to enforce on any Godfather... it's their city and therefore their decision what they do.

I think you're reading between the lines a little too much, pal. All the way through this I have stated that these are the things I would do and that Lancelot is perfectly justified in doing what he's done if, hand on heart, he thinks it's best for his city. My blood has nearly always gone on gut instinct (like Lancelot did here) and I would be a hypocrite to suggest otherwise. Again.. I even praised Lancelot's reply to Donnie.

My anger only stems from people putting words in my mouth. I keep getting questions as to if PJ or Lancelot should do this or that and I keep telling people IT IS NOT MY PLACE TO SAY. I can only comment on what I would do.

Post-war, it's normal to see upset sons and daughters in the street. But what I've read here this afternoon is absolutely disgraceful. There are a few individuals here, in the funerals, and in the coffee shops who should really be ashamed of the way they are conducting themselves. Regardless of who you are in the coffee shops or what your ancestors may have done in the past, it's really odd to me to see grown adults acting in such a manner. 

So you don't like what happened. It's absolutely natural to be upset, but please, do a better job of expressing yourself like an adult. 

So instead of killing said potential threat you would move them to their own city? I just dont see the logic here I would feel it would be a better choice of making sure said threat was put to rest and cemented. Why wouldnt you kill them?

Of course they count, Jack. However, you, me, Lancelot, my nan, your dog and everyone else in this world knows that Manius' blood is VERY experienced in this world of ours and wouldnt take that risk until he's absolutely sure he could complete the job. Therefore, the 40+ other members weren't anymore at risk than you or I currently are right now, as he wouldn't have made a move without giving himself ample chance to prevail. Do you think he spent all that money on BG's for himself and Ire just to throw it away on a slight chance he would win?

I think you're fooling only yourself if you believe this.

Because... Sinfest. AGAIN, as I've already stated. I would be willing to risk a fragile peace for the sake of the bloodshed that happened yesterday.

You seem to be missing the fact that... as Manius would have been building up his strength, so would have Lancelot, Apples, SammyGarcini, DeadlySin, Neon, Phil_Steak and more than likely... one or 2 more auths.

Let's ALSO remember that rules on authing new crews would mean Manius would only be able to auth another family in his city when all other families have a certain amount of members... if he broke that rule then he would face the wrath of the entire world, not just NY and Philly.

Well on the other side of things IF you allowed said person to go to said city what would stop the bloodshed when said threat felt they were ready to war against you? The bloodshed may have happened earlier then had you done what you said you would do but think of the bloodshed had both sides gotten powerful and turned said war from 3-4 cities to every city in the game?

((Wow talk about fail on the roleplay I apoligize))

Sinfest looks ashamed to so blatenly discuss life in the mafioso as if its just a game

If I'm sending them away from my city Sinfest, I'm obviously not totally comfortable with them. I would prepare just as hard as they could so I'm ready. If nothing happened for a long, long time. I would consider my peace a success, even if it did eventually bite me in the ass, as we should never expect to live long in this world. I do not fear death and would be willing to take the risk in the hope that the differences could be reconciled.

Time is a great healer.

I have to say it is interesting to hear what PG is saying. It could potentially lead to a better way of developing our world into something more rather than the old method of "he's looking at me funny, kill them all!" Now obviously it would not suit all situations. But if the differences were just down to say a personality clash then this could be better. It would show that leaders are willing to sit down and try to work around their differences instead of bringing more bloodshed to our streets. As he's stated though death is something that should not be feared as it is round the corner for each of us.

A mobster from New York walks out to the streets with a strong cup of coffee and listens to a few people talk after Lancelot's speech.

After the death of Godfather Marston it was only a matter of time before Manius and his family attacked the other families in New York. They already wanted Apples and SammyGarcini dead before our Godfather died. It's obvious by comments made by their next of kin they didn't like Lancelot either. In my opinion we made a mistake when we thought Detroit was a threat but did nothing about it. Regardless of how much Detroit's attack was criticized they attacked us first and we lost people that might not have died if we attacked first. It would've been absolutely foolish for us to wait for the Joy Division to fire the first shots. I think we can all agree a first strike by them would've been more effective than Detroit's. The bottom line is Manius and his family were a threat because they wanted New Yorkers dead. Ignoring a threat is a one way ticket to swimming with the fishes.

Innocence looks around at a few people in the crowd.

If my parents were killed by people they worked with I might be pissed off too, but lines have been crossed that disappoint me deeply. The snide comments at Akasha's funeral and personal attacks against Apples and SammyGarcini were uncalled for and immature. We are suppose to be men and women of honor. Not name calling school yard bullies.

Innocence walks away to get back to business.

You bring up some interesting points, Innocence.

Firstly, I suppose "only a matter of time before Manius attacked the other families" is true... if you count "never" as a matter of time. I know, I know. "But Akasha told us..." And if that's your evidence, then quite simply, you were fooled. I mean, honestly.

But, really, it's your parting lines that got me. "We are suppose to be men and women of honor." Yes. We are. You, however, have shown that you have none, and so you will be treated as such.

By all means, continue sticking to your ridiculous story. Just know that nobody's buying it.

i did  not agree with it but it had to be done.

just seemed a bit unfar all of us to kill one crew but  such is life

you have to lay in the bed you made and it seem he made a bad one for him self and his whole crew.

Rip to all the falling of the  aweful war.

I full heartedly believe that Manius had no intentions of being the "big dog". Not anytime soon at least. In the future? Who knows, but I knew the man well enough to know that he had no immediate plans and simply wished to continue making money and proceed with his path as a crucial piece of an operation, but not the man running it.

With that being said, I also believe 100% that the other families in New York believed that Manius had larger aspirations and felt threatened by this. When someone has achieved greatness in the past, it is expected by most that they are striving to exceed that greatness and further expand their blood line legacy. I was great friends with Manius, and this whole incident was very difficult for me. At the same time, I understand and personally believe that New York simply felt that Manius was seeking to eventually expand and eliminate them.

I had a relationship with Manius which leads me to know that this wasn't the case, however this same relationship was not shared by the other leaders of New York. I cannot fault them for believing what they believe. They felt a certain way, and took actions based on those feelings. 

We must do what we can to persevere. Not only ourselves, but our families and our cities as well. With this mind set, there is no doubt that there will be situations where we interpret and item as a threat when it isn't. We may also intrepret a smaller threat larger than it actually is.

As Innocence pointed out, Detroit was considered a small threat. Rather than take actions to remove that threat, we choose to take the risk.

What happened? Detroit laid out an attack in which a shot was taken at me. Luckily I survived. However, the same could not have been said to my beloved Right Hand who had just recently spent a significant amount of monies to hire protection for. 

Had we attacked this small threat in Detroit first, NY and Philly would be scrutinized as bullies. However, as we did not, Detroit appeared as the "bad guys". However, this public image cost key lives. I would now rather have a negative public image, if it meant that it would save the lives of my people. They are my greatest responsibility.

Have any of you stopped to ponder what if the situation had transpired differently? Now I personally believe the following actions would NOT have happened, because of the relations I had with Manius... but just what if:

Manius continues to develop for a month. Guns in the Joy Division had shown that they could take out EWP. Wouldn't take too much longer to take out IWP.
One night, The Joy Division launches an attack on the other three cities, with the backup of another city. After a long gruelling war with severe casualties on both sides, Manius is left victorious. What would you say then? That it was justified? That Manius did the right thing? No, there would be screams of betrayel and pretty much a replicate of what we have now, simply with the parties reversed. 

Reading these events has been a right down Tickle to my Pickle i'll tell you that. Really the events of the past 48H has been a huge Pickle Tickle, so thank you all for the Tickle time. My Papa's Pickle thanks you.

You have to ask yourself, is the majority still the majority after what you've done?

Do you know what, if you are listening to these speeches on recording. Fast forward to just before this point now. Listen to Phil_Steak. Understand the words he has just spoken. Because he is exactly spot on. The rest of what everyone else has to say has very little insignificance in comparison to what he does. Simply, if you do not trust someone, why give them the chance to grow and get stronger. Take them out when you can, ensuring the least possible lose of lives to yourself.

Just think, the 3 NY families lost circa 25 people in this war. Had they not moved, and allowed Manius (RIP) to build, and there gut feelings been right about him, they would have lost 150 people at some point down the line. That is what needs to be considered as a leader. The aggressors are always the ones 'to blame.'

(OOC: A quick political thought; America gets a lot of criticism for being involved in wars in Afghanistan & Iraq, with very little proof of WMDs or anything else. But had they not warred those two countries, and they been allowed to get stronger as countries, and build WMDs and then attack America. Imagine the many thousands of lives lost, in comparison to the relatively small amount of soldiers killed. It is clear, to save lives in the future, it is better to attack early when your opponent is weaker. I feel this political comparison is similar to how the NY war went down. Sorry to take it OOC.)

A Masked man follows the conversation from a rooftop, the crowd gathered look up as they hear his low growl of a voice.

The best way to put out a fire, is to prevent it from igniting in the first place...

It sounds as though the Joy Division had one too many flammable warnings stuck to her side. God rest their souls!

As the people wonder who it is up there, Mysterion disappears into the night.