With his ears still ringing from all the chaos in the streets since the recent war in NY, Pharoah (son of Pharaoh, who recently retired in the middle of said war) walked sullenly toward the center of the square, where several people were gathered, poking insults and laying blame on each other for their role in the recent activities.

His heart was heavy, knowing that his father had none but good intentions, and was now looked at in a less-than-respected light by some, but he gathered himself, lifted his head proudly, and addressed the crowd through the din.

Fellow mafiosos and mafiosas, this may be more for my good than any of yours, but take what you want from it, and leave the rest.

I do not presume to know why this war happened, or whether decisions that were made during it can or should be justified now. I was not really a part of all that, and my father was not around long enough to judge either. What I think I am attempting here, is to move on. I'm not trying to anger anyone, I know some of you feel betrayed, un-appreciated, hurt, disrespected, kept out of the loop, and so on. I'm also sure that this is not the first time something like this has happened in 'this thing of ours'.

It seems from my perspective, keeping my ears and eyes on recent street activity, that some of these grudges have held on through multiple family lines, that to the uninformed eyes and ears of the 'new blood', could easily look petty, even cruel. I learned a few things from reading my father's journals even though his time was quite short. Holding grudges without getting to the root of the problem will just add to the animosity and distrust that is already prevelant at the present time.

Is there a way for us to put away past differences and mend some of these family fueds that are crippling the infrastructure of future developements from the inside out? I cannot imagine what this looks like from the perspective of some of the refugees just getting off the boat for the first time, especially when they have barely gotten settled in (still less than 48) and are gunned down because they might be the son or daughter of so-and-so. This can have a drastic effect on population as a whole. How many potentially great mafioso/mafiosa's have we lost because of a lack of stability when they first enter our cities.

Hopefully you at least consider what I have said. Feel free to comment, but please, I am not telling anyone what they should do. I am merily asking if anything can be done, and if so how do we start healing?

Pharoah stood there after his short speech, wondering how well it would be recieved in this hard time. Hoping his timing was not absolutely horrible, he waited for anyone to respond.

It killed me to see the war n.y vs n.y alot of great people died an some not so great but we are all going to be stronger after its all said an done.Please lets have some peace between the familys.an mend the fences that were broke.but if not may god forgive us all.Rip new yorks fallen heros.

Organ_Donor listens closely to what the young Gangster had to say

You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, however these long-forged grudges are unable to heal due to the daily interactions in the coffee shops. In my honest opinion. As my great-great grandfather discovered, coffee shop loyalty and friendship trumps anything that goes on in the streets and any relationships made outside of them. Maybe I am out of place saying this, but whilst we have the coffee shops, old grudges and feuds will never be laid to rest. For the evidence of this, look at the most recent war. And the majority of all wars there ever have been.

Guin listens and sighs. If only ...

Unfortunately, old grudges do tend to cause current wars. Fresh starts are virtually unheard of. I don't agree with it but I do understand it. In a perfect world, the past would be left in the past. If I carry a grudge, it is short lived and does not play a part in any future actions by my bloodline. I tend to tell someone who has done me wrong in this world exactly what I think in private, disassociate myself with them, and move forward.

The NY war was not a pretty sight to behold. I sat and watched mafioso that my bloodline will always care for die. The damage to NY is deep. People talk of the 25 or so that were lost from the currently families but in reality NY lost much more than that as many of Manius' family has sought shelter elsewhere now. RIP New Yorkers

Axl listens or he thinks he listen as Pharoah speaks

Pharoah a mob war can flair up at anytime it is up to us the soldiers to fight it we are the cannon fodder the expendibles though no family wants to lose a member, It hurts them by the loss of earnings that the member brings in now the point of carrying a grudge i find that is like school yard stuff, My dad killed your dad so i am gunna kill your dad its childish and pathetic, We are men of honour we are above such things but alas that is not how it works in a perfect world it would be so but.....here in our world  it will never be so, my thought would be to work hard put your energy into working for our crew leader and starting afresh, Slash may be a drug addict but i think he would love that someone like you are prepered to come out here and talk to the masses so he can Dance with Mr Brownstone without having to be interupted.

Slash stops his dancing with Mr Brownstone for a moment to try and clear his mind and focus on what his young recruit is saying

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't put it any better than the enchanting Miss Guinevere has. The recent war was indeed a very unfortunate circumstance, one which many people would have loved to have avoided, however, I believe that those that initiated the war did so because they strongly felt it was the right thing to do. Regardless of my own thoughts on it, none can fault a person for taking the action that they believed was best for their family, after all that is why we are here, to live and work for our family's.

That said, I again agree with the stance Guinevere has taken, grudges in our way of life are very bad for business and its best we let the sons and daughters of war live free to do as they please, as they too should look to move forward and not look solely for revenge for their fallen parents. Of course, in this thing of ours not everyone has the same view point, so there will always be many young children that approach us in the street and scream and shout how their parents were killed for poor reasons. At the end of the day, the reason why one dies is of little importance, in fact of no importance really to anyone other than their next of kin.

I look forward to now seeing New York re-build its city and also to watch the children of the dead make their way to new parts of this world and rise in rank just like their parents before them.

Slash retrieves a bag of powder from his inside pocket and proceeds to sniff violently inside it, before lifting his head and staggering away down the street again

I must concur. I believe it was PimpGravy who said it best. Time heals all wounds. Or so we can only hope. Granted, I wasnt involved in this way of life during the war, but Ive read the accounts of the aftermath. It wasnt pleasent on a professional level, nor a personal level. Hopefully things will settle down for awhile. People can gather their wits, let their anger whither away, and get back to the basics.

Thank you all for responding. It does seem like a complicated situation that has deep roots, and may not ever be "solved". I guess it is up to each person to take what experiences they can from their family's journals, learn from them, and try to build solid foundations for the future. It begins with me, with you, with everyone that is willing to put the past behind us and move on, again and again, whatever it takes.

I just wish we could develop an easier way to welcome "new blood" to our shores, and give everyone a chance at a fresh start.

I understand that many people were dismayed at our hierarchys decision to remove numerous -48s however you have to look at the reason why. The decision to remove these said people was not taken lightly it was taken under great consideration and they were subsequently removed to stop the further protection of ire who was massacring members of my city. Anybody who would not make the decision we did should never be in the position to do so.

Pharoah looked at the ground at his feet with a regretful forlorn look, sighing to himself. After a few moment in deep thought, he once again looked up and addressed the crowd.

(OOC: regretfully some of this may include game terms which I can not figure a way around, but I will attempt to stay in character as much as possible and use parenthesis for anything OOC that may need to be said for clarification. Remember I am still very new at this, and this is probably the best way for me to learn. This wasn't the direction I was planning on going or I would have started it in the OOC forum, but some of these issues really need to be addressed before anyone will be able to truely move on.)

I know that I am very new to "this thing of ours", which may keep some of you from really hearing what I have to say, but maybe this has to be approached from a different angle. War is a real and terrible thing that will never change as long as there are more than one person on this earth with different views from the other. Grudges can obviously be held for years and years and travel through family lines, affecting everyone around them. In order for either a solution to be found, or an explaination to be made why there can never be a viable solution, some hard questions need to be asked.

Please do not take anything this lowely Goomba says personally, since I am attempting to address issues here from a fresh perspective, and not to address and condem anyone in particular. The solid facts are that in these wars and even leading up to them, innocents do die. That is a fact. No one is perfect and no one can say they have never made an innocent mistake in "this thing of ours".  Innocent men and women get targeted and killed accidentally all the time, whether from something completely out of the control of the attacker (lag etc), or blatent lazyness in not checking the targets.

When it comes to people who have just arrived on our shores (-48), its very very hard to justify ending their lives, even if trying to defend your city from an invisible attacker. There are so many other variables to consider. Should we also start killing every other person with a gun that has ever associated with them, since they most likely could be helping them as well? The fact that it is possible for a young mafioso/mafiosa to help protect a friend or colleage of their ancestor, merely hours after they hit the shore (they have to at least acquire a gun to be useful), is just about as vague and pertinent as the preceding example. 

If, in fact, all (-48)'s were left alone on both sides, would it not be even anyway, since both sides could potentially profite from their fallen comrades children coming to help? I fail to see how shifting the favour to your side in war by killing all innocents (oh wait, you don't kill your own do you?) can be justified. If you were to do just the opposite and leave them all alone it would by definition be fair as well. 

If I am being naive, please enlighten me. I just wonder how many bloodlines will never know why their parents were killed minutes off the boat. I wonder how much population we would have right now if there were harsher penaltys for killing (-48's like minus to gun stats etc) young blood.

Anyway, I will let others have the floor, and we will see if the issue gets the attention it deserves, or goes right back to being a nessessary evil.

(I was not killed as a -48, so my view is unbias that way.)

Pharoah I do not, and never have supported nor endorsed the general practice of killing the aformentioned -48s but in some cases I fully support it, I stand by our leaders decisions during the war and will back them to the wall. All of the unfortunate -48s were left whispers and if they had any quieris I'm sure they could've returned to query them. It wasn't just -48s that were killed for pro'ing Ire, stimpy, from las vegas (I believe he was a wg) was killed for pro shotting Ire. There are gun penalties in place for killing -48s but as I say, I personally would do it all again for the good and protection of my city, yes these -48s lost their lives and we may have lost population but people who feel aggrieved that their life could be ended by a flaw in our worlds laws. If -48s abuse their protection, in this case they deserve to be shot.

Wait, you or whoever does it, shoots them pre-emtively before they even have a chance to violate anything no? If it was actually as you say, and proof of them violating their protection was shown, then of course, you would have every right to end their lives. 

(When I say you, I mean whoever is doing the killing, not you specifically. I am in no way wanting this to become personal.)

A person on these shores is able to shoot from 24 hours old, the pre-emptive strike was aimed at these 'suspect' people some of whom we knew had shot for definite, the others were removed before they had the chance. These were an act of war! If you ever see anyone from my city shooting a -48 they will be punished by the appropriate people in a swift manner. Wars are very different from other aspects of our daily life. Unfortunately the -48s were in our way of protecting our city and therefore they had to go. I'm sure there innocents killed but when their are so many established lifes at risk, you can't take those chances

So to the innocent -48s that died, you tell them tough titty and move about your days? That doesnt seem very professional or honorable to me.

I hate to tell you this marcus, but this is the mafia shit happens and then you die. Everyone dies someday, please do not lecture me about our practices, it was war and war is survival of the fittest and most witting.

Shooting innocents isnt witting, its barbaric. What is done is done obviously, but it doesnt make it right.

Lets be clear here, no-one is here to lecture those that took these actions. This is a generic discussion on the actions itself. If people choose to use such tactics during times of war, then of course that is their perogative.

However, in this world people are free to offer their thoughts and opinions on current events, and if someone puts a constructive point across and states they disagree with the actions, then I don't see the problem. There is no reason to get offended because someone else thinks your actions were wrong, not everyone is going to share the same views.

I have a conundrum for you Marcus.

If you were to be a crewleader and decided to war someone, would you kill every single member they had or just the people online at the time of the war?

If the war was to extend to a period of 24 or 48 hours, what would your response be to the new people who are active for about 6 hours then sit dormant as petty thieves for the next 18 hours plus and then mysteriously come on line when a shot is due to be taken?

Would you leave these new gangsters who have an evens chance of being pro wackers alone and let them extend the war which could cause further death in your family/city or would you take a decision based on the facts presented to you and authorise the shooting of these "innocents" in an attempt to save further bloodshed in your family/city?

During the war certain people carrying the -48 tag deliberatly aided the enemy by proing them thus involving themselves in the war there by losing their innocent tag regardless of still wearing a -48 tag, these people when found were killed, however a couple of true innocents were also unfortunantly gunned down as a precautionary measure.

New York is and always has been against the killing of -48 and those found in breach of this will be shot as they have always been when discovered, we all do ugly things during times of war doesn't make them wrong or right, you just do what you have to do to survive and keep the casualties down to as little as possible. I can assure you though any member of New York caught killing a -48 can expect the same fate.

So we offer them protection for 48 hours, while they look for a family. Why is it then that they need a gun? Isn't that having your cake and eating it too? Isn't this weapon the reason these new people are being gunned down pre-emptively? The protection of other members of their family depends directly on their ability to use a weapon so early. I think I can already see a couple solutions to this problem. 

1. They do not receive a weapon until they are either sponsored by a family, (then they would instantly lose the -48) or the 48 hours protection runs out without them joining one.

OR...

2. (OOC: less than 48 hours lose the ABILITY to pro-wack completely, taking them out of the equation)

I can see either option saving lives of innocents, and leaving no way to "cheat" the system.

Has either of these ideas been used before?

Pharoah waits patiently for another response, trying desperatly to turn this back toward a solution, and not just another place to argue over who did what and why.