This is a pretty simple one and one that used to be in place:

As some of you may remember, on the old format of this game you used to be able to overhear the whispers if you caught a Witness Statement. Now more than ever we shoot a lot of Non playing characters So I imagine people seldom bother with whispers for them, I know I don't any more. I think that if this was introduced it would provide an exciting and potentially humourous new form of entertainment out of something that now feels mundane. I have proposed the idea on IRC a number of times and almost all of the time its met with positive reactions.

The only real problem I foresee is that the whisper used to take up a lot of space on the personals page but back then we received far less notifications, so I propose that it comes with a Show/Hide link or button so that it doesn't clog up a large part of the personals page.

I agree with the initial poster that the only concern would be in terms of space being taken up on the personals page.

Perhaps after X amount of time it could automatically be removed from the main page if not deleted and remain only in the witness statement section?

Alternatively, perhaps it could just be a link to the whisper that when clicked takes you to the graveyard screen with a copy of the whisper?

I'm opening this up for further thoughts.

There are a few reasons I am against this. The first being... We already have a problem with people NOT leaving whispers. With an addition for whispers being overheard, I know that myself, personally, will not be leaving whispers anymore. Another reason is that sometimes when a CL removes a member they post the reasoning in the whisper... That is not anyone's business but the CL's and the members... Certainly not someone from another city who will more than likely pick up the WS. Also, there are times when people kill a friend that has asked or someone incog and those friends like to leave a personal message in the whisper. Not everyone wants those things being read by other people. I honestly don't believe this is a change that benefits the game in any way.

P.S. I leave every RIA/MIA/Durden a whisper. Usually the same form of a whisper, but still a whisper nonetheless. I would even stop those.

Cassiopeia brings up a very good point. Some whispers are meant to be private, hence them being 'whispers' and not 'shouts'. If you were talking at a normal volume to your victim, I could understand somebody overhearing you. However, a murder would most likely occur after a beat down on the victim, when the assailant would then lean down, and whisper the last words the victim would hear, in the victim's ear.

Maybe a toggle option for making the whisper able to be overheard? A checkbox would probably suffice. If checked, the whisper would be a whisper, and be private to just the assailant and the victim. If left unchecked, the WS catcher would also catch the whisper.

I agree with only having it on the main personals page for a limited time, maybe 10-15 minutes? After which, as Grin said, it gets moved to only be viewable in the Witness Statments page of the personals.

Since Cassiopeia has raised her concerns I have to say I agree with her.

I think having a toggle on this would make it end up not being used, so I don't think there is much point as this would probably take a fair amount of coding that would only end up being used on IA's for a giggle.

I leave every RIA/MIA/Durden a whisper. Usually the same form of a whisper, but still a whisper nonetheless. I would even stop those.

This seems to me kind of a 'if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?' situation. Nobody gets or even reads whispers to RIA/MIA/Durden, so what would be the point of leaving them one in the first place? If we proceeded with this change I could understand it, but otherwise, I'm not really sure what to make of that!

The first being... We already have a problem with people NOT leaving whispers. With an addition for whispers being overheard, I know that myself, personally, will not be leaving whispers anymore.

If people didn't leave a whisper before, this making them less likely to leave a whisper isn't really a concern, because...they aren't leaving a whisper anyway.

If you're worried about people overhearing your whisper, maybe your whisper choice isn't really appropriate anyway?

Another reason is that sometimes when a CL removes a member they post the reasoning in the whisper... That is not anyone's business but the CL's and the members... Certainly not someone from another city who will more than likely pick up the WS.

What sort of mobster explains the death of an individual to that individual in such detail that it is an issue if they are overheard? "Michael Corleone says hello" I would class as a whisper, he doesn't say "You broke subsection 13 of my rules in my HQ and that is frankly unacceptable". That sort of detail could quite easily be saved for the eulogy where CLs currently just say "No W/S required".

Also, there are times when people kill a friend that has asked or someone incog and those friends like to leave a personal message in the whisper. Not everyone wants those things being read by other people.

If a friend wants to die, don't get all soppy in the whisper as you're essentially committing murder regardless of the motivation. If you want to leave a personal message, give them a eulogy.

The incog one I don't really know how to address. If someone is incog, putting "bye " as a whisper seems very unlikely to me as a selection choice. I don't truly believe that is a problem.

Some whispers are meant to be private, hence them being 'whispers' and not 'shouts'. If you were talking at a normal volume to your victim, I could understand somebody overhearing you. However, a murder would most likely occur after a beat down on the victim, when the assailant would then lean down, and whisper the last words the victim would hear, in the victim's ear.

I think that definition is at odds with the whole witness statement ideal. If I am close enough to get a full description of someone, surely I'm close enough to be able to hear what they say to the victim? Unless we're advocating that every mob hitman who feels the need to express themselves to the victim, does so at a sensual distance from their earlobe, which again, seems unlikely to me.

My thoughts on this are that things are being taken a little too seriously. How many whispers have you truly given that you would be compromised in any way at all if they were overheard? How many whispers have you exposed your friends incog in? How many whispers have you said something to a member that wasn't really just a variation of "you broke a rule" and would be damaging to be overheard by another city? In my ~9 years of playing this and it's variations, I can think of maybe a handful, that were probably ill advised at the time, out of thousands and thousands. I think you guys will probably be in the same boat and can quickly rectify any potential hiccup.

Conversely, how many whispers have you written that amused you, entertained you or otherwise provided you with satisfaction? I can think of thousands and thousands out of the thousands and thousands. Therefore, I'm guessing that there are plenty of people who would be in this boat as well.

This change looks like a worthwhile one to me and was a feature that was traditionally in the game. The objections I've seen so far are pretty distorted from the reality of what most whispers actually entail.

I think a checkbox would just negate any worries though. As I said, if you left it as it is, the default would be that it would go out with the WS. You would have to actually change the setting for that particular whisper for it to be private.

I don't think a permanent option for it to be on or off should be included either, just the checkbox that you would have to change for every single whisper, if you didn't want it going out.

If people are leaving funny whispers, they would have no problem with this being there, as they would want other people to see it, it just allows those that have a problem with it, to not be affected by it.

I'm not even sure where to begin here...

{I've heard that leaving a whisper gives you the same kind of xp as posting does, therefore, I leave every single person/npc a whisper. If it doesn't give the xp, what have I lost really? Plus it's good exercise to keep me in the habit of leaving whispers on every shot.}

How is my whisper not appropriate? That is not why I'm worried about people overhearing my whispers. And as for leaving eulogy's... Obviously I don't want to say what I have to say publicly, so I'm choosing to leave it in a whisper. Which is a secret to begin with. If I'm standing in a crowded room of people and I lean over and say something in someone's ear, in a whisper, the whole room can't hear it just because they happen to be standing close enough to me to get my description.

I play the game how I want to play the game. It's not your way and that is completely fine, but don't tell me my way is wrong. I brought up concerns about why I don't believe in this suggestion, which to be quite honest shouldn't even be fully sponsored at the moment, and reasons why I personally would stop using the whisper function were it to pass.

Again, a CL saving a reason for a eulogy would be something public, instead of saying it in a whisper, where it is private.

I have also been incog and been left whispers by a friend that shot me that would have revealed my incog. I've left reasons in whispers when I've been a CL, that I wouldn't leave in a funeral so as not to embarrass the person or whatever reason I have at that moment. I've received whispers from friends that I wouldn't want overheard, I have given whispers to friends that I wouldn't want overheard. It's not because they are inappropriate, it's because they are personal and something that is meant for just myself and the victim. Whether it be business or pleasure. Not something that I want to post in the funeral.

I understand that they used to be heard before, but that was obviously changed for a reason. I, myself, cannot see a good reason to change it back. I think a better suggestion, to encourage more whispers, would be a code to make them necessary to complete the shot. I think the idea of a toggle is a great idea and I think it would get more use than people might think it would. To have the option to have an option to be heard or not is better than being forced in either direction. Who knows maybe one day I'll think of something completely witty to say that I wouldn't mind the witness overhearing. But for now, I'd prefer to keep my whispers just that.

Firstly, I have no idea what your whispers are, would be or have been in the past. I was speculating as to why you would care if they are overheard on MIAs/RIAs/Durdens and the only reason I could come up with was that you said something that wasn't appropriate and you wouldn't like to be attributed to you. If the reason you do it is for the reason you've stated in the redaction, I don't really see the problem in them being overheard.

I have no interest in how you play the game and I don't believe I stated that the way you played the game was wrong, right or otherwise. I'm not really sure what you've drawn that assumption from as it certainly isn't something I've given off. I'm a strong advocate for the diversity of play and allowing people to play in pretty much whatever way they choose within the rules of the game. I addressed the quite valid issues you raised as to why you don't like this suggestion with, I feel, quite valid reasons why I do like the suggestion. That is the point of the player commission forum.

To your point on the incog whispers, that seems baffling to me. I would guess if this was implemented this practice would just have to stop. I don't think that it is a particularly widespread custom anyway.

They weren't removed, it was in the old game where they could be heard and it is not something that has ever been an option here.

I'd prefer not to see coding a whisper as mandatory for a shot, that just detracts away from the choice of the player to either give or not give one.

A toggle option would be fine by me if there is genuine resistance to this. Those who don't care about having their whispers contained the lyrics to "Umbrella" being heard can share them with the world and those who do care can maintain their own private messages between themselves and the victim.

This change looks like a worthwhile one to me and was a feature that was traditionally in the game.

Yet in your next post, when I mentioned something about it being a part of the game you say...

They weren't removed, it was in the old game where they could be heard and it is not something that has ever been an option here.

By your first comment, I can only assume that you meant this game, that we are currently playing and discussing.

I think a toggle option would be fantastic and I would definitely vote this through if that were the case. There has already been a player in the Suggestions thread raise concerns about the privacy issue as well, so I think it would just be a better option not to force people into having the whispers be heard.

My first post is wrong.

By traditionally in the game, I should really have said: "they were in the original version upon which this is based". They've never been in this game.

With the absence of a toggle option to be able to avoid this kind of stuff being caught by another user, I'm pretty much inclined to vote against this. While I understand to a point that there probably shouldn't be personally revealing facts/questionable content in whispers, the fact of the matter is that they're still relatively common. In the end, I've always thought of a whisper as a perfectly private, if intimate, method of speaking to your victim one last time before they're sent off into the funeral home. Plus, while I can imagine having an eyewitness to a shooting, I can't really imagine many scenarios where the witness would be able to overhear a whisper , of all things, as the wording of the death message implies that your killer is incredibly close to you at the time of your demise.


I think this one should be left as is, honestly.

When this comes to vote, we can specify that it is as a toggle option rather than an overriding feature to replace the current system.

{Assuming enkindle says that is possible anyway!}

I will be suggesting this is voted on tomorrow if there are no further thoughts.

It will be in the manner of a toggle option to leave a whisper that may be overheard or one that is purely for the ears of the victim.

Final Summary

When you catch a witness statement you also hear the whisper if one is left.
Add a check box to whisper to enable/disable overhearing of the whisper (unchecked = will be overheard).