This one doesn't exactly need that much explanation.

Here's the original thread:

My suggestion is to be given the ability to post threads in the HQ Forum that are only viewable by made men and above (plus R&LH). I don't think it requires any further description, but here are some reasons why I favour this suggestion:

- Allows leaders to post more sensitive information in their headquarters.

- Could allow some important decision making to be done in the headquarters, rather than on IRC

- Gives further allure to prestigious title of made man and the ranks above.

- Gives the possibility to post further rules and guidelines that may apply to people of this rank. (Recruiting, mentoring, advanced tuition)

- I, as a current leader, will find this a useful tool for communication.

If other leaders don't wish to use this option or have no use for it, they don't need to use it, therefore I see no cons other than coding difficulties…

There was the fact about RH/LH being able to view bought up, and we will need to decide on whether they will be able to view them regardless of whether they are Made Man or not.

I think the RHM/LHM should be able to see the threads, it would be stupid that people who can do all the things RHM/LHM can do and not see them.

If people don't want RHM/LHM to be below made then that is another topic, and I'm sure it's one that is a minority view.

I agree that it would be stupid that people who are RH/LH and have those entitlements to then not be able to see these threads. Equally, it is stupid that anyone below Made Man is a RH/LH in the first place, so I find this one tough to determine.

I'm not so convinced that it is a minority view, and if it is, I think that is based more on prescription than any legitimate defense.

I really don't see it as "stupid" from either point of view, I think we can discuss this without resorting to that. I really don't want this to turn into a RHM/LHM rank debate, there is already a suggestion for that. I feel like this should go as the title of the thread states as Made and up, if the hands are not Made they don't have access, then maybe that might do something for the other argument that really has no place here. Obviously there probably isn't going to be anything in those threads that the CL and the hands haven't or won't discuss, they just won't be able to post in them until they are of rank.

Well I'm sure the title only said Made+ to keep it short as in the full suggestion it says Made+ & RH/LH.

I agree this shouldn't be an RH/LH as made discussion and should be about the original idea of HQ threads for Made+ & RH/LH.

I understand that, but it's obviously become an issue to debate that may need to be modified.

If the forums are for Made and up and the hand is not that rank, then they should not have access. It is clearly a CL's choice in their picks of hands, if they choose a hand who would not have access to that forum, then that is their choice as well. They make it knowing there are consequences.

It's also the choice of a CL to promote their members to made man & if they weren't held back by the game they would be made man.

Not allowing RH/LH to view these threads would simply limit a leaders choice.

How would it limit their choice? Eventually the hands will be able to access the forums it's not as if they can never see them. Also it's not as if the CL can't or won't discuss what is in the forum with the hand.

Obviously the suggestion's intention was to be able to post more sensitive information in the HQ without the average Goomba or Earner being able to view it. If being an LH/RH (even if they're of a lower rank) doesn't entitle you to sensitive information about your own crew, I don't know what does.


I'd suggest to have this feature include hands, regardless of rank, as well as anyone Made+ being able to view those threads. It'd also be nice if there was a feature that could only be seen by specifically named members, but I guess that's what the back alley is for.

I agree with ralph. If the RH/LH aren't able to see these threads, it would be stupid. As Flash said also, the RH and LH would be Made if not held back by the XP/days old they need to be.

It would make no logical sense to not let them be able to see these threads.

Honestly, the only thing I've been trying to do here is keep this from becoming a debate about what rank hands should be. The easiest way to do that is to say the threads should be Made + only.

Cassiopeia, we aren't talking about that though. We are literally talking about the matter at hand. I don't want to get into what rank RH/LH should be, but they SHOULD be able to see what other Made users can, regardless of their rank.

But it is turning into that, especially if you read this thread in the suggestions forum. Even players are commenting that this is not about ranks of hands.

I am still of the opinion that having a RH/LH ranked below Made Man is stupid and I don't think it is resorting to anything to suggest that; it is a nonsensical situation.

For this suggestion, I would have it so that anyone ranked Made Man and above is allowed to see these threads and anyone below is not. If you, as a leader, want to defy the hierarchical structure of a Mafia family and appoint Joe Nobody as your RH/LH when they haven't even made their bones, then that is up to you. The game shouldn't have to cater to the fact that any particular leader doesn't understand the way a Mafia family should be structured.

It is an entirely stupid situation, but it is created by the leader of the family making an inappropriate, unrealistic choice.

As to whether or not we should debate the rank of RHM/LHM, it is tough to disseminate that discussion from this suggestion as it is an element of it that needs to be considered. So, I think we will have to accept that an element of the debate is relevant.

I think this boils down to practicality on the Crew's part. At the end of the day, regardless of how low their rank is, they're still cogs in what keeps their crews running, and they represent the crewleader when the leader is absent. With that acknowledged, the notion that they wouldn't be able to see the workings of the HQ that they represent is pretty ridiculous. It really isn't that big of a deal to add something to the equivalent of "if rank=8+?view/if position 2, 3?view).

On a side note, I'm not sure if I'm off base - but wasn't the level system partially introduced to bring some luster back to the meaning of rank, in that the tying of points to your title in the game were to be eventually separated so crewleaders could decide for themselves what rank they'd like their members to be?

Couldn't agree more that it is ridiculous, but it is the leader who is making it so by selecting an inappropriate choice of RHM/LHM.

{As to the levels, I have no idea what their purpose is or why they got brought in. I wasn't around when this occurred. Severely dislike it as well.}

I like the concept. As far as the RH/LH issue, I tend to agree with Grin that if they aren't Made, they won't be able to use this option. He is right when stating that it's the leaders choice to choose someone who hasn't earned their button yet.

However, in the case that your hand dies to a gun malfunction or rogue, and their kin returns, most of the time the CL will appoint that son/daughter to the position of their parents. Why would they replace them when they already know all of the inner workings of the Family?

So my only solution is why not make these forums available to only the RH at all times, regardless of rank. Just like they have access to CL mails/banks/personals. Through their CL they will be able to see and use these forums as well. If the LH is of rank, of course he would be granted access. But if not, he is locked out.

I don't think this debate is necessary, keep it to made man and above only. How often does a hand in a family take longer than 11 days to achieve the rank? Generally, if they are chosen before reaching this rank it is because they are impeccable players and will undoubtedly be able to make the points in minimum time (it's fucking easy!). So who cares about 11 days? Not me.

Reply by: Sandor at Sep 14, '12 09:47

As I said the same earlier, even if someone has a hand that is not Made, eventually they will be, it's not as if they are going to be excluded from the threads forever.