The original suggestion was:

Basically, I think everyone agrees that the -48 rule is a "good for the userbase" rule. I don't propose ending it or anything like that. However, I think most would also agree that sheltering yourself under a -48 in a time of war only to quickly slide into a crew and pro-wack someone is pretty much taking advantage of a rule that's not designed to be used that way. And it hurts the site when innocent people get caught up in the crossfire. I would propose two changes that, I would hope, should curtail this problem without detrimentally affecting new players too much:

(1) The last 5 petties (10? I'm honestly just spouting a number here off the top of my head) towards gaining your gun must be made while within a crew.
(2) Anyone that leaves a crew after having joined one, but while still under 48 hours old, should not have the (-48) label and should appear black in the obits.

However the members of the player commission that sponsored the idea where on the merits of the second part of the suggestion and not the first.

I am definitely for the second part. I wouldn't mind seeing the first, but I know I'm in the majority. But I do think you should definitely lose your innocence once you join a family. Even upon leaving it within your -48... How could you still be innocent after that?

I'm not sure why the second option is relevant to the other - actually, the entirety of the suggestion itself has nothing to do with someone under -48.

As I was around when they added this feature, the point was to deter accounts from blindly shooting any gangster they could lay their hands on. Caution was to be taken with them, but at the heart of it, the -48 is simply to alert a player that they're under 48 hours. Nothing more, nothing less. A -48 was never intended as an indicator of innocence, nor has it ever been.

This suggestion will simply make it easier for opposing crews to kill off pro-wackers in the event of a war. They'll see the tag is missing, assume guilt, and shoot. With that said, I'm not really too crazy about adding this idea to the game.

The -48 setup has always seemed shakey to me. I understand the whole point of protection for people so as not to deter users, but as a tool in war... it never made any sense. I have always looked down on it... even when I've been on a side using it. It felt like a cheap move... and the other thing is... if one wanted to look at it from a realistic perspective... Why would a crew that was being taken out suddenly have a new influx of members in the middle of a war? "Let's jump on the burning ship and have a party!" But that's not something I'd want to stop... particulary because in some cases the crews do survive... though usually if you're using -48's, you're already on your way out and just going for the most damage. 

The point is... I don't think -48s should be able to shoot real players. Getting a gun is one thing for normal training or something, but in a war it seems like something that is too easily abused. As for joining a family and dropping, I don't think that should matter so much if a gun isn't able to be used in the first place on something real anyway and so the -48 should stay in place. 

The -48 hour rule is fine how it is. Do you see people right now shooting -48? I don't think a change is needed at all. Also in a roleplay perspect think the burning crew that gains a lot of members are the children that dont think their parents time was long enough.

I think somethings dont need any changing because they work just fine right now. First off this change would only benefit if a war lasts 24 hours. I like having the idea of reinforcements as a reward for the side that isn't do so well for lasting so long.

I am will have to say this is a No for me.

As the suggestion currently stands I wouldn't vote yes for either one, but I do believe that once someone joins a crew they should not be considered 'innocent' any more. If they then drop out of said crew and are shot, they will appear red in the obits as other non-innocent -48s already do.

I believe that the -48 represents an innocence of sorts as that is exactly the description for it if an under 48 dies.... Blue: Under 48 - Unsponsored - Innocent. I can adjust the vote to be determine whether we just want to see them lose their -48 if they should join a family and then drop from it, regardless if it's a time of war or not. You cannot claim to be innocent once you've joined a family, checked out the rules of this life etc.

I don't think they should lose the '-48' tag. After all, that tag is simply there to show that they are under 48 hours old. Even if they are not innocent, they are still the same age.

The innocence of the -48 is shown on the obits page, where they appear either red or blue.

As I mentioned earlier, the -48 was introduced to simply notify people that they're exactly that - under 48 hours, to prevent people from blindly shooting them. That isn't an implication of innocence, nor was it ever intended (when it was introduced) to be construed that way - it's just a measure of time. The colours were introduced after a few incidents that to basically determine whether a user shooting one of them had a legitimate reason behind it, but that has generally been the final arbiter of whether or not a user was "innocent" - not their -48 tag.

The -48 hour tag is there to show they are new, the reason it is there is to prevent new players being shot at. However if they have joined a crew to pro and drop from the crew they are obviously not new and are abusing the protection forwarded to new players.

I am in complete agreement with what Flash-Fire just said. If they have already joined a crew and drop from it, why should they still receive the remaining 48 hours to find ANOTHER crew? It is not a protection to jump from crew to crew to see which one you like better.

I think a person should lose their innocence the moment they join a crew. At that point they are officially part of our world.

If there are no further opinions or discussions on this I'll be setting it for vote within the next few days.

I think we need to have 2 votes for this as it seems everyone is against option 1.

We could just vote on option 2 leaving option 1 out entirely since everyone seems against it?

Seems the best course of action to me.

I agree with this entirely. From a roleplay perspective - once you 'join the mafia' you're not an innocent anymore - you're fair game.

From a gameplay perspective I think this is a good idea seeing how the -48 tag is commonly abused (or misused) during wartime. 

I believe that part one should be left out as well, and would propose that we vote for it simply on the merit of part two, leaving the former out of the equation makes this into a top-notch suggestion. 

I'm definitely not for option 1. However, option 2 seems quite decent. 

The vote is only for option 2