This idea would be somewhat of a drastic change to witness statements, when you include the 'would you like to look at this' button type thing we've discussed.

Squishy I think the reason the warden has so few is because in a lot of cases people simply forget to sell them, some don't KNOW they can sell them etc

But this is more about opening up the opportunity for a WS to more or less 'disapear' I think - even more than the whole selling for profit portion. Sticks brought up the disdain towards stagnation and this could be something that could 'cause sparks' 

There are many layers to this suggestion in that sense that it could be a cause for controversy. 

{What I would like to discuss here - with input especially from you squishy - is whether this fits in with the direction we would all like to see the game go in... This has the opportunity to allow witness statements to vanish which could ripple to more risky shots being taken - secrecy more or less. This could create a game in which someone dies... and no one ever knows who took the shot. Is that a possibility we are all willing to accept in order to create a more chaotic, realistic, and exciting environment? Honestly I think the trade off would be well worth it, and I am very interested in all of your opinions on that}

Guess I'm a little late to do the re-cap again :D. Really need to get my finger out my ass on that!

So the original idea was fairly basic;

In addition to the selling witness statements to the warden, how about actually putting the witness statement up for sale on a "black market".

This grew arms and legs a little until it more so formed into a more secretive side of things; the user gets the message to offer them the information, they can choose to sell that information on the black market, or choose to view. They can't see the identity of the shooter themselves unless they open the personal - once opened they can't sell it.

I like this, it gives the users a bit more to do with regards to W/S which a lot of the time are simply passed to your W/S Collector and cashed in, or deleted if the shooter is in your family (Not sure how many do that, but its something I've always done)

There was a fair bit of discussion on the idea in the original suggestion, hopefully we can all participate in massaging this into a viable idea as I feel its certainly something worth considering.

That said; Squishy's comment there led me to believe that maybe he doesn't feel its worthwhile? Id personally like to get more feedback on that aspect as we must consider the game owners view of the game in this also, not just the users. Obviously they could make the decision to not progress the idea even if we elected to move it forward to them, but I see no point in us sitting here debating the mechanics of an idea if its not something thats wanted.

In all honesty the only situation this would really be used is when someone catches the WS of a sponsored shot, in which case the family of those that fired the shot would buy it no matter the cost and charge the offending with the cost of the WS along with what ever reparations for the killing/attempted killing in the first place (providing they think they have the muscle to back it).

What about an alternative?

It was recently brought to my attention that a wonderful alternative to this would be offering money to the person that catches the statement to bury it.

You get a WS and before you get the chance to see it, it says 'a shadowy figure approaches you and offers you $X,xxx,xxx to keep your mouth shut'

You accept the money and the WS never sees the light of day. 

That would make me even more against this idea. I agree with Flash-Fire, that it will probably only backfire in the face of those attempting to sell off the ws and they will be made to repay whatever was lost.

Cassi, I'm sorry but that doesn't really make any sense. What flash fire was trying to convey (I think) is that the family of the shooter would be made to pay back the WS amount. Not the witness - as they would remain entirely anonymous in this situation. 

I like the idea of being able to offer someone money to bury a witness statement almost more than the original idea, honestly. If it's taken the other way and bought quickly by a member of the offending user's family, I'd venture to guess that they likely would be kinder to their member than if another family had caught the witness statement - which usually results in the player's death and a hastily written apology by their family.

In response to Squishy, I'd take a stab that the reason why so few people use the witness statement perks in the first place is that the system in general has been seen as an annoying chore whose only use (when relevant) is to hunt people down. Anything that moves it away from that direction and into something more ambiguous (to the crewleader) and shadowy due to the nature of this game seems like a good idea, to me.

You don't think those burying the ws would be the shooters? :S Maybe I confused what was being said. If so my apologies for not making any sense.

Meh, maybe it's a miscommunication, I was addressing your second sentence in reference to FF's post" I agree with Flash-Fire, that it will probably only backfire in the face of those attempting to sell off the ws and they will be made to repay whatever was lost."

The person attempting to sell off the WS would be the witness, no? I'm not really sure what you're getting at...

In the suggestion where the shooter attempts to 'buy off' the witness and bury it - there is literally no way for it to backfire on either party really (all moral and loyalty standings aside of course) In the 'black market' option - someone puts that WS up for sale - it's entirely anonymous and whoever buys the WS just pays out the cash to receive said statement. The only person that has any potential for losing out in that case is the shooter. Which of course is not really something that should bother anyone? 

If you have nothing to do with the shooter, why would you want to hide it? That is usually why WS are buried, to protect the shooter. In any case. I will leave the discussion alone, as I really haven't seen anything thus far to persuade me to support it, especially seeing an admin not showing much positive support towards it either.

The simplest answer to your question is money. If you thought you could get a lot of money from it and didn't care much about the victim, why not sell it? This creates massive opportunities to do things of that nature.

Anymore input into this?

After much discussion with myself over this, I believe this is going to be a nice feature to implement, it can honestly completely change how things are acted upon and how different opinions can come into play.

When it comes to causing controversy, this game is surrounded by it, allowing situations that can work for you or against you depending on how it is played, I like this idea and think it will be bringing more options and more opportunities for people to have power in places they never thought would be possible. Having the ability to earn yourself an extra dime on the job for using a feature wisely is always a plus in my opinion.

I will be voting for this idea to be passed.

I liked this idea in the beginning (after turning it over for a while) and I still like it now. I realise it's rather a big leap from the status quo, but frankly in this case I think that would be a positive for the game.

It's a Mafia game. For me, it just fits that we would give people an opportunity to be more calculating and cloak-and-dagger about their actions concerning WS. Right now, there really isn't much emphasis placed on WS unless of course they are hunted down by upper stuctures. This feature makes things much, much more interesting.

Yes, it has cons, but I believe they are cons worth taking a risk on for the overall benefit of gameplay. We can't have things over-policed or things will stagnate; stagnation causes much bigger ripples than the possibility of someone playing with WS for a few extra dollars.

I'm definitely voting yes.

I'm setting this to go to vote in two days.

Eh, with the WS pool being reduced, I'm not so sure on this now.

The negatives that I see: With Stealth and the fact that things can be burried even now... I don't know if it's really needed. For the sake of roleplay, I'd just beat up that... shadowy figure for the information he was offering... and not pay him :P 

However there are positives to it that have been mentioned already... So, meh. I guess I'll decide last minute or if there is more of a discussion about it.

I still really like this idea. Granted the actual aspect of how its to be put into place hasn't been completely decided, which in my view means it would be brought in using the format described in the original suggestion thread.