Where is the structure? What I mean is, the tradition structure of the mafia is officially gone. There are Dons left and right while their should only be one top dog. With the new development of districts and such, Captains/Capos are going to play a larger game than before. Why don't we start with officially adding an actual Structure/Family Tree/Chain of Command. One where you have your appointed position such as the UnderBoss/RHM to the Boss/GF, a Consigliere/Advisor, Capos, Made Men/Soldiers, then associates.... Over time the game has some what made an approach to go to a structure but why not make it a reality?

Don/Godfather Phil_Steak
UnderBoss Cassi
Consig Ringo
Capo Vaticus, Alexander, ClockWorkAngel
Made Men So and so...
Associates Everybody else

And of course you need to meet certain requirements to fill those positions. I really dislike the fact that a gangster thru Wise Guy can be a RHM. Its really shameful in the way of role play. Who would ever have a street bum be an acting UnderBoss/RHM to a city? Along with the new bg system I think this will fade but why not make it official?

I am open to all comments. I just wanted to get a few ideas going and some feedback. I really wrote this fast so I apologize for leaving anything misleading.

Who would ever have a street bum be an acting UnderBoss/RHM to a city?

I'd say about 95% of the leaders we have in this game, past and present. Myself included. The reason is that whilst we all wish Rank made such a big difference here, when it comes to such an important position trust will always win. Despite someones relative young appearence and low rank in the mafia, they have gained the trust of their leader already from past experience and so will be granted the position on that basis, not on their rank.

I'm not saying its right, but I am saying that will never ever change. I do wish positions such as those could be afforded to Made Man+ only, but I've grown to concede that will never happen, as quite simply the majority of the user base doesn't want it to.

Trust will always win. I concur.

What if a capo could fill in temporaryly? An acting underboss. I'm just looking for more realism.

To be honest I don't really like some ranks. I mean, Capo and Consigliere are jobs and not prestigious titles which ranks should be. It's illogical that, for example, a Consigliere leads a family while having a Boss for RHM. Why is Consigliere higher than Boss anyway?

As for trust, I suggest that RHM and LHM positions be available from Made Man and above, so newer players can show their capability as hands.

coffee shop relationships will always trump everythign else and those relationships lead to old hands becoming new hands, ect.

I can see the LHM/Consig position being someone who is low in age just not the RHM/UnderBoss. I agree where Padrino said Capo and Consig are positions, not ranks.

If there isn't a way of having Made Man+ requirements for RHM, then why not make it a permanent position. The ranking system is off putting, positions are no where to be found systematically.

Permanent, as in you hold it until you die? It maybe could work, but if a RHM fucks something up then you would have to kill them even if the mistake is minor. As I mentioned above, I'd like to see RHM and LHM positions available from Made Man. While leaders would still probably just rehire old hands after they reach MM, it at least gives new players a chance to prove themselves as hands.

I am going to back upo the idea of at least the Rhm being made man only. Coffee shop relationships are great. but I don't give a fuck if my characters daddy was the most trustworthy guy ever. That should NEVER carry down. I don't necessarily mind  people having a temporary hand position, but i mind some new fucker fresh off the boat being placed over my service. I would like to see the RHM spot being made man+ hardcoded in, because this game is becomeing far to cliqueish. I have some friends here, but since none of us are in with the rich and powerful, in all the time i've played, i have NEVER been given a shot at any real authority, and have been repeatedly passed over for thugs and gangsters.

I must agree with Philli-Stein. This is an addition that needs to be included.

If people feel that a RHM has too much power available to them, then I don't see it being too hard (just an assumption) for it to also be hard-coded for CLs to limit the RH from carrying out certain activities. A check box for activities that the CL is willing to let their RH carry out. Some actions should remain as to not just make it an empty title if the CL decides to over the top with limiting actions for RH.

This would easily resolve the issue of a RH having too much power. I assume people will still argue that the person can't be trusted, well this is true, no one can be trusted until said person is given a chance to prove himself. With this implementation people will be able to do this.

Xaro, i'm with you on your addition to this idea.

Most "new fuckers fresh off the boat" are the children of the former hands. Are we really saying that in a real life mob those children would not to be known to the deceased's former family? That's kind of an unbelievable theory to me.

As for Xaro's suggestion... It sounds good in theory but when people are put in a situation ora position they feel they're not trusted or kept from accessing certain things makes them more likely to act out in my experience.

Most "new fuckers fresh off the boat" are the children of the former hands. Are we really saying that in a real life mob those children would not to be known to the deceased's former family? That's kind of an unbelievable theory to me.

They would be known without a doubt but they wouldn't be the RH, as they are not the same person, they are the son/ daughter of this person.

As for Xaro's suggestion... It sounds good in theory but when people are put in a situation ora position they feel they're not trusted or kept from accessing certain things makes them more likely to act out in my experience.

But with effective communication that problem could easily be avoided.

CL: I'm appointing you RH but I will be limiting what you can do, are you okay with this?

Potential RH: DO you not trust me?

CL: Not that I don't trust you, but I want to be building trust with you giving you a chance.

I believe in my statement I said they were the children, so I'm not sure why you're saying but they aren't that person... Because what I literally said was "they are not that person, they are the children." Yes it's true for the 18th time that they are not that person. But they also aren't some nobody off the street. They would be someone that the family knew personally. And more than likely extremely well. I have seen several new characters in one city alone that have had the opportunity to hand that never have before. These are positions that people need to show they are capable of by their character, not just given it because they think they deserve it because they are a certain rank. I don't like the idea of limiting someone's choice for who holds the position because they have no rank. What about places like the Detroit experiment where people were going as Made's and could only take one person with them? If that person was nowhere near made, they wouldn't have a hand for however many days. They wouldn't have a left hand for at least 11 days and that's saying that person can min time the rank.

It's not just on the leaders to take an initiative in this respect. If someone of a higher rank thinks they are more valuable to a CL as a hand, prove it. Make them believe in you. Not make them make you a hand limiting your capabilities until you prove you can be trusted. A right hand is basically a second in command. They are responsible for the crew when the CL is not around. By saying every person made or above should be trusted to be a hand for someone, you are saying that every single person that gets made is capable of running a family. That isn't what becoming a made man means.

After all that has been said. I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of restructuring to the rank system, whether it be rank changes and what not. But I would not support something that took a leaders choice away from them.

Ah. I begin to see the issue. I do not believe that every made man is capable of running a crew. I'm saying that If you do not trust me enough to make me inner circle (made man) Then why do you trust me to run your crew?

Although yes, as the son of a former member of a family, yes they probably know me. However, given how i enter the world, I clearly have not done any work for the family, and am thus not trustworthy until proven otherwise. You disagree?

as far as your commment to "prove it." well, to be blunt NO SHIT! what do you think i'm doing? sittig on my ass? Sorry cassi, the reality is this, unless you've gotten all friendly with the right people, your stuck on the shit level right now.

You know it seems to me that people think there is so little that goes into a hand job. Hand jobs can be very difficult and time consuming. Not everyone is cut out for receiving a hand job. In fact, personally, there are very few people I like enough to even consider giving a hand job to. You all need to consider that when you give someone a hand job, you're not only trusting them to not make a mess of things, but that they won't end up screwing you. When you give someone a hand job, you have to understand that you're basically putting them in control of everything. 

Given all this information, I really hope you will rethink your positions on limiting CL's as to who they should be allowed to give hand jobs to. Because you don't just want to give a hand job to someone due to their rank or how much money they've given you (cause quite frankly, giving hand jobs for money should be frowned upon) you want to give a hand job to someone you really like and really trust.

Mind you all as well - this is a role-playing game. Which means anything goes in some sense. If I think someone is deserving of a hand job (for whatever reason) well by golly I think I should have that right. There are many reasons to give someone a hand job  - why limit the possibilities?

Well as Whitey said this is a game, so I think everyone shot at least get a shot at receiving a hand job.

PC-Whitey says hand job = 12times (Couldn't help but giggle)

I think I'm torn on both sides here...

On this hand I want the structure and the way RHM and LHM to work the same way it always has...

On this hand I want to change the way it works...

I do like the sound of RHM and LHM only being accessible to the highest ranking members of a family like if you have mademan+ then you can't use the lower ranks to do hand jobs(lol). So you would have to give the higher ranking members a chance. I know that it's a hard job and sometimes you would find people that you thought were not hand material to actually shine and do a better job than those that you have had do those tasks before.

So I know what PC-Whitey was saying about re-thinking the positions on limiting but isn't it that that makes a leader a leader? Giving a leader a few materials they should be able to make good use of it. Those that you are not always so friendly with can sometimes make a big impact on a family and make it better but it could also go down the garbage disposal. It's all about how the leader deals with these things.

That is why, I think, anyone below Mademan should not be allowed to be a RHM/LHM. I'm someone who is talking about this that's in that very position but at the same time we are playing this game how it is and when changes come we play it that way.

I'm sorry but I have to comment on the (hand job) thing. The job should ONLY be made available to the person you would trust with your life. Not a freind. not a relative. Nobody else. Experience speaks volumns and yes that should and always play a big part. There is no way in this life or the after life that any consideration be given to someone you don't trust,even if they have all the experience possible. 

As I have said, people need to prove they have what it takes to fulfill the necessary positions. I think if you were to limit hand positions to made and up only, people would just not have a hand until the people they actually wanted in the spot ranked up. Which would probably piss even more people off than the current system. People do not like to be forced into things. People do not like their choices being taken away. Hands have the capabilities of doing major damage. Do you really want your CL putting someone in that position that they don't know or trust 100% that could mess with your account just because they have the access? I think not.

It doesn't matter what people say or think, at the end of the day when you are in the position to appoint a RH, I guarantee you every time that 99% will appoint a friend, someone they trust implicitly. I've given the job to coffee shop friends more times than I care to remember, I could count on one hand the amount of unknowns I've given it to.

Trust will always win.