We all know rogues today don’t pose a serious threat like they once did. However, they still manage to take away innocent lives, and most of those lives are well respected members of this community. I know there’s only so much a CL can do to prevent this, but what it really comes down, is the time when their members become made. So my question is….

Do you think a CL/GF should be accountable when their own made members go rogue? And how much accountability should they endure even though it was completely out of their hands?

I remember back in the day when cities were burned to the ground because of this very reason. Although this was a different course of action since rogues back then were able to do a lot more damage. But I am more curious to know how many respected members need to be shot down in order for something to be done about it? Let’s say a wave of rogues take away 15 innocent lives over a course of 4 months. Is this more acceptable than having rogues take away 15 innocent lives under a month? And yes I know, in general, rogues are absolutely unacceptable in any circumstance, but my question still stands. I’m not out here in the streets to discuss a better plan of preventing someone from going rogue, because we all know, rogues will always exist until the day we die. But I’m here to ask you how much accountability should a CL/GF take when their members go rogue, and in some cases, multiple times.

I am curious to see the community's thought process behind this matter. Thank you for your time!

Psychopath

There is only so much a CL/GF can do. I don't think it's fair to take down a city because of the odd rogue/rogues.

I have stated this was a different course of action back then when rogues were considered a threat towards a CL's life. I'm more curious about our time, like when a certain threshold is met, what should happen next (if anything at all)?

The issue with punishing a CL for the actions of a rogue is two fold. Firstly, there is little rhyme or reason to going rogue. Generally you have 2 kinds, the first is the rogue who feels his ancestor was hard done by, the second is the rogue who goes of the ranch from boredom. How can you tell which is which? Its impossible to tell. My bloodline has never gone rogue in 11 years, despite feeling hard done by or disappointed in former CLs, but this doesn't mean that my son or grandson might not go rogue if things changed.

Likewise boredom can strike at anytime, and unless the crew member is forthright and honest with his CL about his mental state, there is no way to tell this will happen.

Furthermore, if we start punishing CLs for members going rogue, then what's to stop someone joining a family and going rogue specifically to see that family taken out? I believe that if a family produced multiple rogues in succession then the community at large would take that particular family out, but there is no need to punish a CL for the limited actions of one misguided individual.

As stated there are few things a Crew Leader or Godfather can do to prevent a Rogue from emerging. Even with good recruitment, training and nurturing, some people were either dead set on Roguing from the start or experience some sort of temporary insanity. Either way, they will conceal their intent.

I think the true accountability is on how that Crew Leader deals with the Rogue once he or she emerges. How they deploy their killers and how communicative they are with their fellow leaders. These are the things that I think reflect on any Leader.

I remember in the no too distant past, a city was erased in part because their hitters did not focus on a Rogue while the rest of the population was fighting to stop him. In this case it was not the fact that a Rogue existed, but the response to that Rogue that ultimately caused damage.

I think Bearpocalypse has hit the nail on the head with this one.

Accountability absolutely comes down to the actions of a CL when one of their own members goes rogue. Their handling of the situation speaks volumes and their choice of punative action reverberates across our society. Leaders who are thought to fall short of the usual protocol will be judged; those who uphold current standards receive the collective nod of approval from their peers.

Why stop there?
Why not punishing the entire bloodline of that rogue, killing their offspring as a preemptive measure [better to be safe than sorry] which will just encourage its bloodline to enter this world incognito and still do wht they set their mind to.
What if this is used by a family, intentionally having someone sent among the ranks of another family, rank up while training the skills needed, going rogue and its used as an ecxuse to take out other families?

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Well Kirill , since I've been around in this world of ours.. bloodlining has never been a good thing.. No matter how bad they are , who they previously were or who there alter-ego/father/grandfathers reputation etc.

This world of ours is who YOU are.. Not your father and so on.

But as what was said before.. Rogues are extremely hard to route out as you can never really know until its actually done.. I dont think anyone is responsible that a man may rogue , Raoul hit the nail on the head really.

Think about it from another point of view, why in earth would a CL and GF want to agree to this?

Betting that no gun happy lunatic from their city will loose it one day and start shooting and risk their crew's lives?

I heard that back in the day of the might cheesemakers, they shoved that agenda down the throats of the other crews, and you know how they managed to do that?  POWER.

They held everyone's balls in their hands.

When you can do that, you can implement such changes.

Mudkip, I was being sarcastic in my previous post sir.
Of course I agree with you (and other disagreeing wit that suggestion). 

Also i don't get why so many of you keep bringing up topic's set on the old day's and how thing's used to go down. Well for one this is not the old day's. We have our own set of rules now and we don't abide by the past. So, im not trying to be rude or anything but enough with "That's how it was in the old day's."

Believe me i love the old day's and miss them as much as the next mafioso but they are long and gone. Deal with what's happening now.

A boss can't possibly be considered responsible for the actions of his member who decided to go rogue. In this thing of ours, you can never know who may turn out to be a rogue.

Joey , we base many decisions and connections on the way of the old days, without previous occurences happening.. Some may not know the correct decision to make.

While this isn't the 'Old days' alot of us still keep in regards every day.

Well, you can actually hold GF/CL's to accountable to a certain extent.

Not punished by death, but there should be a rule that if your member goes Rogue, you're financially responsible. Lets say your member goes rogue, kills 5 people, you should have to pay out of your pocket for the loss of the other family's members. That is the only thing I can possibly think of as being held responsible.

Camzilla. While i see where your coming from with that, I disagree.

There should be criteria before even thinking about financial compensation. The sad fact is, shit happens. People go rogue and "innocent" lives sometimes are taken because of this. If a Made member goes rogue and removes a Made member from another family, or city even, then personally I do agree a sit down should take place to discuss it and ensure all parties are comfortable going forward. Whether that means one has to pay the other for their loss should be entirely between those parties and not be something thats already formally set in stone, otherwise people could easily manipulate such scenarios to their advantage.

Overall, I feel each Rogue situation will differ from the last, different reasons, different leaders. Only one outcome is the same and that is the rogue will eventually die.

TyrionLannister, that's sort of what I had in mind, just didn't get out of my mouth lol.

Yeah, I do agree with the way you put it. Most rogue situations wont be the same, different things will happen, different ranks of people will be killed. It would make sense for all of the involved families to sit down and talk about how things will go forward from the end of the rogue situation, as long as no one is punished by death due to an idiotic rogue.

Before I add anything else, I feel I should address Mr Rasca's statement:

Also i don't get why so many of you keep bringing up topic's set on the old day's and how thing's used to go down. Well for one this is not the old day's. We have our own set of rules now and we don't abide by the past. So, im not trying to be rude or anything but enough with "That's how it was in the old day's."

Believe me i love the old day's and miss them as much as the next mafioso but they are long and gone. Deal with what's happening now.

Joey, I am disappointed and frankly embarrassed that a member of my family would come to the streets with words such as these. Our entire way of life is based on traditions and values based on the emergence of La Cosa Nostra in the mid to late nineteenth century. This is the 1930s; these 'old days' you speak of aren't so long gone and Mafia concepts still hold just as true now as they ever did. Some changes may have evolved as Our Thing has grown in maturity - as is only natural - but to simply shrug off tradition is absolutely not the Mafioso way. There are examples of such tradition all around you, whether you choose to see them or not.

Roguing is a flagrant disregard for the fundamental basics of our way of life. It is arguably an ideal example of what you get when you hold no regard for well documented Mafiosi values. Where does it get you? Precisely nowhere. Your suggestion that 'we have our own set of rules now and don't abide by the past' basially echoes the sentiments of every rogue that ever was. I'd suggest that you take a closer look at the world we leave in and reserve these social assessments until such times as you understand the dynamics of our society a little better.

Moving along and back to the subject at hand, I must say that I would always be willing to sit with other leaders in the event that one of my members went rogue. Dialogue is exceptionally important in this thing of ours, particularly in situations such as these and it is the best possible forum within which a Crew Leader may accept accountability for deaths at the hands of a rogue. Furthermore, if the matter concerns Made Men and above, financial compensation could well be considered but as Mr Lannister states, that is not a cut and dry matter by any means. For me, discussion must come first in order to address every corner of the issue at hand, with any financial gestures offered as a subsequent solution agreeable to by all parties.

Heisenberg stands up from the back of the room and gives Ms.Lilac a round of applause for the wonderful speech she had just given

As everyone will agree, rogues are bad for business.

Accountability of rogues is a very delicate topic because rogues have their own agenda. Raoul even mentioned of rogues claiming to have boredomitis and we all know how easy it is to catch that. But business isn't just something you gain over night. It takes time to build a business, a criminal organization. Rogues only seem to slow that for us. No one wants to stop their earners from their weekly pick ups because their is a mad man on the loose. When cities do burn to the ground, it is usually do to either the way the situation was handled when dealing with the rogue, or the aftermath following the innocent lives being taken.

As people have brought up the recent old New Orleans regime under StanPython, that situation was unique but similar. In my eyes, handlings of a rogue should be a group effort from the masses. When you chose to allow this rogue to gun down innocent lives whether or not they are targeting your city, you may pay the ultimate price and your city may even be at risk.

Miss Lilac's response to this was superb to say the least. I shall close with saying this, the aftermath of a rogue can be a very dreadful process.

"Well, you can actually hold GF/CL's to accountable to a certain extent"

1. Only if Said GF is willing to be held accountable - see my previous comments why this is unlikely
2. On the flip side, if GF is forced to be accountable.

This has nothing to do with old/new ways, I see it as a simple fact of life, every single GF would rather tend to his own interests and protect his own, AS HE/SHE SHOULD BE DOING.