This is not at all the same as speech editing - It's absolutely ludicrous to even compare the two. 

Why? Editing a post is something you do AFTER you post it. This is just a simple safeguard to make sure you aren't doing something you don't mean to do.

We're not asking that Admins revive players that are shot accidentally - that would be similar to Post Editing.

This is a request for a feature that would be helpful in limiting or ending mistakes in a game where mistakes are very costly.

You know who loses out here? With this feature? NOT the people that fuck up and take the shot. The majority of the time those people (if they miss) are swept under the rug, and if they hit have to pay a fine that will set them back less than a week.

This feature helps Joe Blow, the newbies, the novices and the beginners who have just made it here and somebody mistakenly wacks them and they wake up to a screen that says sorry, you're dead. 

Maybe some of you older players signed right back up moments later - but new players may not. Every time someone makes this simple and preventable mistake - there is a chance this great game lost another user. This user could be the next great writer, leader, hitter, or Godfather. Why lose those people because tradition dictates it should be easy to die on this game?

Let me just ask you something, Whitey. Does everything have to be about getting new players? If so, well give every new account a 100 credits and make sure they don't die and they'll love it.

I feel that this suggestion will sacrifice a large amount of enjoyment. I remember a very old retirement thread from ThomasRourke which said something about 'riding the edge with the 1%, the wb and random wacks etc' was what made the game fun. I tend to agree. The wb has been removed, the 1 % is still around(thank god!) and now with this change, the amount of random wacks will prolly go down.

Maybe this will bring in more players, maybe it won't. However, a thought should be given to the people who have stuck by this game until now. Is sacrificing their gameplay experience for a few new players who may or may not be the next great hitter, gf, writer, cl etc? That is something I believe people should consider before justifying a change with 'It'll bring new people'.

Okay, let's just bring the game all the way back to what it was.

Let's just have a forum, where you can wack people if you have a post count higher than there's...

Listen, If someone is going to leave because of an added OPTION (you could just turn the safety off in your settings...) then they were going to leave anyway.

And yeah, it is about getting new players. You know why? The same people that have been playing for years... will eventually leave. People grow out of it, people get bored of it, people have children etc etc. So, should we never have a new feature, just to make a dwindling population of the game a tiny bit happier?

I don't see how adding this would 'sacrifice the gameplay experience' for old school players especially when the person who suggested it predates MOST of the people that currently play the game.

I never said we should never have a new feature. Stop putting words in my mouth. I just said that 'it may new players' isn't a reason for every new change.

For instance, since you seem so well informed, of the 4 people who died courtesy of mistakes like this, How many are still playing and how many have left the game for good cuz one char they had built died? Also, if people dying stops them from playing on here, well we should just make it that we can only kill NPCs, RIAs and MIAs and keep pettying and racing and PPing till we can all get IWP and a bajillion kills/PPs. That should make a lot of people come on here and have the time of their lives, shouldn't it?

There's a difference between someone who has played a long time dying and a newbie dying.

The logic behind my statement is laid out plainly in the thought behind the 7 day grace period and the -48 code.

'new-new' players who don't know what's going on, are going to be 100% turned off about a game where they die for absolutely no reason, before even meeting anyone or getting their feet wet.

As for those 4? I believe there was a newbie, and I don't believe they've come back.

And just as you never said we should never have a new feature - I never said people shouldn't be able to be killed - stop putting words in MY mouth.

Yes, there is a difference between a vet and a newbie dying. I agree with you there.

This change does not only affect a character for a short period of time like the 7 day grace period. This is a change that will affect your character for a long time, possibly the whole of it's existence. Hence, my problem with it. I have been punished a couple of times for such a shot and I was killed for it both times. Maybe the problem lies in the fact that people are not ready to have even punishments across the board that these accidents keep taking place. If a strict policy of killing anyone who breaks ranks and takes such a shot existed, people would be a lot more careful and maybe this lackadaisical attitude wouldn't exist.

The odds of a 'new-new' player being targeted before meeting anyone are as astronomical as me one-shotting any of the existing gfs. This is the point I have been trying to make. Riding the edge is what makes the game fun, in my opinion and this recent trend of intense hand holding disturbs me.

Well, as for the point you make about a newbie coming back. I can say with almost no hesitation that I believe he/she would have been back asap and hungry for answers. It's what I did. It's what quite a few people I have met on here did.

I never implied that you were the one saying people shouldn't be killed at all. I merely inquired that if people dying puts them off the game then maybe just disabling the wack button for actual players should earn us a lot of users. I was never trying to put words in your mouth.

I really dislike how certain things like this are trying to be introduced.

The MIA timer was the first thing I disliked. Reason being was that we are being too user friendly with the game now. I get the whole aspect of "Oh I spent a credit to train my gun, it should be my kill" but the users have set in place something that warrants this. The minute rule, but no thats not enough. A MIA timer that not only pops ups but also links you to the profile to your MIA as well. This is too much.

Responsibility is lost if this is implemented in. Be accountable and responsible for your own actions.

I'll be honest and say I skimmed the whole conversation between Whitey and Elijah but Whitey you said that there have been four accidents in the recent past and one of those were from an upper structure. Well maybe that person should lose the responsibility of having a gun instead of harnessing another user friendly part of the game. I love Satana's response. I alway love what he has to say.

The point I am trying to make, enkindle is that people should take care to not make mistakes like this and they should be 'responsible' for their own conduct and the should be 'accountable' for their actions/mistakes.

I just want to echo what Elijah said.

I understand where you're coming from enkindle but friendly fire happens all the time. How is this just not friendly fire? There are other things in place to make sure you are shooting someone instead of pickpocketing them and the like. Such as the wack screen is completely different than the pickpocket screen. There are tags all throughout profiles saying whom you represent, if you're sponsored and the like. I really think this is something the Users should have in their own hands than have a feature to fix the "problem".

I think its best to leave this with in user's hands.

If they put this feature through, and you didn't want to use it, you wouldn't have to.

So, the point you're making baffles me really...

You don't want to use this, so therefore nobody should have the option?

YOU don't want this feature, so people should die needlessly.

"The odds of a 'new-new' player being targeted before meeting anyone are as astronomical as me one-shotting any of the existing gfs. "

LOL, The whole point of this is that nobody is being targeted. It's an accident - it can happen to anyone. If you're 'targeting' someone then this feature won't even help you. In fact, it will make is so you CAN'T claim it was a failed message/PP. This feature actually promotes responsibility - because it eliminates a lot of excuses. 

Also, as for 'living on the edge' or whatever... if the threat of being specifically targeted or dying in a war isn't something that weighs on you as exciting.. something's wrong. 

I am not saying I don't want to use it and that's why it shouldn't be implemented. Again, with the putting of words in my mouth. All, I am saying is that this feature reduces the responsibility of being a hitter even more. Yes, everybody and their brother hits these days, but that doesn't mean that it should be made so that it involves no responsibility at all. You want people to stop dying needlessly, enforce stricter punishments. Take care of the issue as players instead of running to the coders and asking them for an easy fix.

Ok, 'targeted' was maybe the wrong word. 'killed' could be used there. Also, how does this promotes responsibility? Lets look at an example shall we? I am an low ranked member of the CH crime syndicate. You are an IWP RHM to one of the NY Families. This change has been put in. You take a shot and kill me. You then say you had the safety toggled off and you got drunk and mistakenly shot me while trying to mail me/PP me etc. Do you seriously think there will be more serious consequences than the current 'slap on the wrist' attitude? Well, if yes, what is stopping you from enforcing stricter consequences right now? If not, well, this change doesn't mean anything then, does it?

Also, as for 'living on the edge' or whatever... if the threat of being specifically targeted or dying in a war isn't something that weighs on you as exciting.. something's wrong.

It's living in the constant fear that you could die any moment of your character's life, not only in 2 days of intense activity when there is a higher risk of dying and then 300 days of pettying that made(makes? not sure anymore) this game fun for me. Of course, you are bound to have a different view point as you have shown already.

I never said people should die needlessly.

If this is implemented this severely reduces the responsibility of having a gun. We have seen people pay for their mistakes just fine through the game. Some people pay more than others. Whats wrong with that?

The same thing that has happened today, has happened within the past ten years of the game. Since the start of the game, people have accidentally shot someone. Why do we need to hinder this and make it not possible? What has changed recently? Why do we all of a sudden need this? We simply do NOT need this implemented as the users can and will come up with their own way of handling this.

Chalk another one up for helping the stupid, the sloppy and the incompetent.

Is that the word you would use to describe me?

this isnt needed. there is no reason at all, in any way, shape, or form that this should be coded in

\ conversation.

Oh, well, that wraps it up

Alexander doesn't want it, don't code it.

Shit, that was easy.

Oh Whitey wants it. lets make sure it occurs right this second. Coders, lets get on this right now, please and thanks

did you actually have a point here or?

If someone can't even manage to put the right name in the box before clicking the button, what word seems apt?