This isn't a complaint as such, more simply an observation of a loophole to gain an advantage where I personally thing that one shouldn't exist. I have noticed for a time people using dueling as a loophole for killing someone without using their attack timer ( basically getting free +1's ), this even allows for shots which might normally carry a +0 but in fact they get +1 using the dueling feature.

It could be just a personal view, but I'd like to see this potential loophole closed by adding 1 hour to shot clocks for each duel. If it's an issue that duels would be blocked in some instances by lack of an open shot timer, then potentially it could allow duels without the open shot and just add a further hour to the clock following the duel (e.g. it jumps from 20 minutes remaining to 1hr 20 minutes remaining after the duel). 

Personally, can't see a downside to this one and do agree that the existing loophole is a slight issue that I would prefer to see closed.

I don't really see any reason why an open shot clock wouldn't be required to duel, but if that is a concern then the idea of simply adding onto the existing shot clock does seem a sound one. Full support of this if it helps close any potential for manipulation of the feature in future. Good call.

Going by the amount of recent duels I fail to see how it is being abused.

By leaving it the way it is it will bring another dimension to wars which is why I would like it to stay the way it is.

Did this guy ask to duel you for good reasons? Or using the loop hole so you don't waste the timer?

Duels can still be used in war, you just use the shot timer...like any other shot.

Yes, I took part in ONE of the duels in the last two weeks.

I can tell you I didn't duel him to spare my timer.

If you can't work out the feature isn't being abused from the lack of duels taking place my points won't change your opinion.

Just because something isn't currently be used for abuse, doesn't change the fact that there is still a potential for this system to be abused.

This does seem like something that should be addressed and changed. 

It only takes one duel for it become abused. 

I'm not here to say it's being abused massively, it's something i have noticed not just over "the past two weeks" . Who's not to say in "two weeks times" it begins to get abused a lot more?

I highly doubt the duels i can see, were for anything else but an open timer. With me not being able to understand how a feature works, i guess you are right but i would like to hear these "points" you speak of.

Dueling has to be agreed upon by both parties.

I simply cannot see how it can be abused to have a substantial gain to ones gun. 

By it not using the shot timer it does open another dimension to wars that will be exciting for the whole user-base. I would be the first to ask for it to be changed if I could see it open to abuse but unless people start dueling dupe accounts I can't see it happening. 

Yes dueling has to be agreed by both parties, but that isn't really a valid point as things can be arranged before hand. E.g (you shoot first and he dies) nice +1 with no wack timer to consider. 

It's not going to be a substantial gain, but you are taking advantage of something which you shouldn't be. (just like "when" we demoted for bodyguard it was a loop hole)

I can't quite grasp this other dimension "during" war time. You will find it very rare a duel will take place in war time (my opinion, unless one person is left with no pro wackers etc etc only then will he decide it's worth a risk, then having an open timer would be an advantage to him then he will shoot again and die) . Obviously there are more options/scenarios to consider but that's for when i have more free time.

Nobody is going to agree to a duel in a war. It takes away the benefit of surprise and removes a chance of a pro or other war tactic to have a benefit. Having said that, it still can and could be used in a war using the proposed change. So it doesn't change that possible dynamic. Why would a duel adding to the shot timer possibly stop that from happening in a war? 

At the moment, this loophole has been abused. It will continue to be abused. I know various players who've even contemplated abusing it but as a result of it feeling wrong to them they choose not to. Not all of our userbase is that honest or thoughtful however, so closign the loophole is the only way to stop the potential abuse. 

Can someone please point out to me how dueling is being abused at the moment.

Three duels in the last two weeks, one of which which between a mid and low rank.

To say dueling is being abused at this moment in time is simply a farce. 

I know of two specific duels since my return that were organised for the sole purpose of a +1 without wasting a shot timer. That is abuse. I know of multiple other situations where it could have been abused, but wasn't due to the morals and ethics of the players concerned. That, is abuse. It's not a farce, it's a fact. 

The 'level' of abuse isn't an issue. It's the fact that it can be abused that is. There is an easy fix for it, which has been suggested here, so I can't see any possible reason for anyone to be against it. One specific scenario was mentioned where the feature might come into play, which isn't impacted by this potential change. Again, I can't see any negative impact from what is being suggested. Only positives (the only negative I can see is the coding time required to do it, but given it's closing a loophole I'd suggest it would be a valid investment of time). 

2 duels in 4/5 months since its introduction.

Even if 20/30 people abused it, it would not come close to the extra +1s people get out of the attack perk.

The dueling feature is perfect the way it is, if the list of duels was 20 users long I would agree with you both, but its not and never will be.

It isn't about the number abusing it currently, it's the fact that it can be abused. There's no logical reason to leave a loophole in place when it doesn't provide any gameplay benefit. Give me a single negative impact of the proposed change and perhaps you can change my mind, but I can't see a single negative? 

"There is duct tape holding the wing together, shouldn't we fix that?" 

"What? Are you fucking serious it hasn't given us a problem YET!" 

Things are better fixed before they are completely broken. Wouldn't you agree?

If two CL's shoot at each other and miss they can duel.

This feature is not open to abuse as much as you claim it is. I can not go and duel every gangster I see hoping for a +1 the Gangster still has to accept my offer.

This feature can be abused by cheaters I do not question that, but by the evidence so far it hasn't been and probably wont be.

Please explain how this feature can be exploited by normal players? I do not see a steady stream of idiots ready to duel Made men + 

It's not a case of being able to duel every single gangster, it's a case of being able to pick up a +1 without using their timer. I'm not suggesting that it will be used daily, it takes too much time for a gangster to earn a gun in order to duel (although it could be manipulated further using the armoury feature) for that to happen, but it can be manipulated. 

The proposed change won't stop it completely, it's still extremely flexible, but it does take a small step to removing the potential benefits of this exploit.

In the scenario you mention, two CLs agree to duel. They trade shots until one dies (I don't see this happening in a war tbh, but for the sake of argument lets assume it does). What's the major negative of it adding an hour to the winners timer? The duel still happened, the winner still won and the loser died, the winner got their +1, they just don't get the advantage of being able to shoot again to hit a bg or another target for an additional hour. Which is FAR fairer in my own mind, not a negative. 

Gangsters can't get a gun from the armoury until they have 75 petties done IIRC, I am open for correction on that.

I still think that this discussion is an over reaction to a game feature that remains under used.

But if this change is deemed necessary I can't see it affecting the amount of duels that occur as people who duel don't give a second thought to the wack timer. The only time the change would make a difference is during a war if two people wanted to duel.

Honestly though Satanta is this change really needed at this moment? Demoting for BG's was one thing, but this is something no one has or in my opinion will overly abuse in the future.

It's the "overly" in your last comment that says it all really. I agree it probably won't be a daily occurrence, but the fact that it can be abused will never sit well with me.

I also disagree on it being a negative in a war situation, I will always feel that taking a life should carry an impact on the attack timer, but that one is a subjective call and not a black and white one so happy to just agree to differ on that one. 

I think the best way to solve this while still allowing people to duel if they feel it's necessary would be just to make it so duelling gives no increase to your gun.

This way it can't be abused just for +1s, yet it still retains all the previous elements of duelling that make it fun to use.