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| Zero Tolerance | Started by: Zoey on Dec 01, '08 01:37 |
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A young man in the crowd steps forward and clears his throat before he begins to speak. I've been listening intently to what everyone have said and from what I've heard I'd like to give my opinion on the matter at hand. I'd have to agree with Signore Pig that his father did not assist the rogue and was in that situation in my opinion is protecting his family's interest by striking a deal with the rogue. Which I think is the foremost responsibility of the Family Head and his trusted Right Hand Man/Woman and Left Hand Man/Woman. But as many of you pointed out, its a thin line you're walking on if you're dealing with a rogue. I do know that assisting rogues is considered a serious offense that warrants death but I'm still at a loss whether brokering a deal with a rogue for the safety of your family is indeed a sin. Because in that scenario, you haven't done anything to help out the rogue. I think to view this in black and white simply wouldn't do. Well, that is my opinion on the matter and feel free to enlighten me on that note. However, the action and punishment for the pro wacker cannot be overlooked and on this issue I'd have to agree with the majority that the action of the Bi-Polar Bear's family was simply wrong. It is not acceptable to just bereft the pro wacker of his/her. Moreso, to promote him/her which I think is quite insulting given that the pro wacker indirectly caused the lives of many high ranking mafiosi in the community. |
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| Reply by: QuickDeath at Dec 01, '08 12:13 | |
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Teruzio, I understand that your statement was a catch-all. That is precisely what I was responding to. You are painting everyone with the same brush. Not only that, but you were speaking directly to the current leaders and telling us what we "should begin" to do. The phrasing of your previous statement: "Family Don's and Bosses should begin promoting people to Made and above only when they know they can fully trust that individual." means precisely this: The current leaders are not at this time promoting people we are certain we can trust. Your statement implies that we (as a whole, remember this is a "catch all")are currently either a). lax with our requirements or, b). irresponsible with said requirements Either way your statement was questioning the judgement of the current family heads. I for one do not believe I fit either of those criteria. Since you felt the need to apply your statement to all of the current heads, I felt the need to remind you to be more careful about the statements you are making. |
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| Reply by: Azuela at Dec 01, '08 12:23 | |
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QuickDeath, i think you missed the point in Zoey's original post. The takedown yesterday was'nt to punish the pro wacker from BPB, but to send a message that helping rogues will not be tolerated!!! HI did what he had to do to protect his family, fair enough. But at the end of the day our Family lost some top members because the rogues were running around without a leash. And when action was taken against the rogues, they were pro'ed. And you say THEY WERENT HELPED. That pro gave the rogues a second life if you will. An extra 4 hours and extra shot at someone that did not need to loose there life. And you say they were'nt helped by the proing! Your father or friends may have lost lives in the whole rogue business, but at the end of the day they made our family bleed. Is'nt that what your defending HI for? What culminated over the past weekend was triggered by the rogues, as the streets of 4 cities are filled with blood, you sit here and defend the actions of a pro'er and his RHM while the rogues went around taking down a CL and numerous other members of the community! One way or the other, i think Zoey delivered her message well. Rogues are bad for business, those rogues caused wars and those wars cost us some very valuable lives. At the end of the day anyone that helped the rogues had a hand in our members falling over the weekend. So what Zoey did was protect our family from further instances of such nature. |
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| Reply by: Tither at Dec 01, '08 12:30 | |
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Azuela, I agree that perhaps Teruzio should not have addressed the family heads so generaly. Maybe he should have been more specific. But dont you think the events of the last few days have proved quite conclusivly that *some* of the leaders, or exleaders, may have been lax with the requirements or irresponsible with said requirements? Your point still stands though, and yes, I would also be offended if I was in your position. |
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| Reply by: Pure_Healm at Dec 01, '08 12:33 | |
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The phrasing of your previous statement: "Family Don's and Bosses should begin promoting people to Made and above only when they know they can fully trust that individual." means precisely this: The current leaders are not at this time promoting people we are certain we can trust. I understand what you are saying, but I have to reiterate my interpretation of my word choice: "Don's and Bosses" - This past weekend these leaders who were eliminated clearly didn't live up to these standards and therefore are classified still under the "present" rather than "past" because it was only a matter of hours and a couple days ago - this does not necessarily translate to the remaining leaders from the original generational category who are still alive and thriving. Sorry if this is confusing, but I am trying to elaborate into my "inner" thinking. The phrasing of "Should begin promoting" really refers to any future aspiring leaders, not necessarily leaders who are already in power and are still so because of their successful policies. As I said, the word choice wasn't exactly methodically plotted out and it can be somewhat confusing if you aren't thinking along the same lines I am. For that, I do apologize as it was not my intention to confuse anyone. |
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| Reply by: Teruzio at Dec 01, '08 12:33 | |
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Some people don't seem to understand the fucking consequences of their actions. This domino effect that only escalated to the death's of many could have been prevented, it should have been prevented. But those who have sat on high perched stools sought to preach about their perfection and allowed these morons with the ability to cause serious damage onto others for self preservation. Zero tolerance. Purging the unclean. Taking out the trash. This is just a prelude to what may come if you ever for one moment think that this is fucking acceptable. Titles to which the speech could have been called. I like, even if you don't, but I don't really care what many of you like so meh. |
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| Reply by: MickeyRourke at Dec 01, '08 12:41 | |
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QuickDeath listens to Tither and politely waits for him to finish his speech before giving a reply First off, I would like to extend my condolences on the death of your fellow family members. Secondly, I just want to make it clear that I'm fully aware of the nature of rogues and I am not a big supporter of such. I am also aware that the take down wasn't primarily due to Bi-Polar Bear's decision to allow the pro wacker to live. Moreover, I am not defending Hi in any way but merely expressing my opinions on what transpired. With that aside, let me address your point. I don't think Bi-Polar Bear and Hi intentionally assisted the rogue and from what I could infer from others' speeches, it was in fact one of Bi-Polar Bear's members assisting the rogue. I guess the contention here was the wrong decisions Bi-Polar made. |
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| Reply by: QuickDeath at Dec 01, '08 13:09 | |
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you know what . zoey you need to get your head out of Marietta's @$$. someone was right you let her pull all of your strings. i cant wait until we have another rouge, maybe the next one will take you and your girlfriend out. if it was up to me i would kill you right now but since its not i will have to wait for my chance. but remember this i will be back and when i have the gun to take you out i will, and your puppet master. I am tried of you and her thinking you can control everyone's family, who can live or die, and you think you are so much better then everyone else. well i am here to say you are not better, you just think you are. so you and your master can kiss my @$$, i will see you around in the ground. walks away laughing my @$$ off |
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| Reply by: -Merciless- at Dec 01, '08 13:37 | |
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| And i also proed malicious lmao | |
| Reply by: -Merciless- at Dec 01, '08 13:38 | |
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It seems we have another moron amongst us. When did you start to think that the weak have the right rule? Those in power set the standard in what they deem to be the standard. They exercise their will in an accordance to eliminate their threats. But all you can do, is come out here and retort to childish behavior. You are an idiot. I know exactly from which bloodline you belong. The "I cant stop whining, crying and bitching" type who cant deal with the fucking truth of being inadequate. Get over it, get on with it or get the fuck off it. |
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| Reply by: MickeyRourke at Dec 01, '08 14:05 | |
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| Marietta and Zoey are the boss of there city not everyone else that is the point i am getting at. they don't run the other city's but they sure think they do, and it is time for everyone to stand up for their own city and control it their own way. You shouldn't let someone else tell you what to do, how to run your city that you worked so hard to get. it's your city do what you want not what they want. | |
| Reply by: -Merciless- at Dec 01, '08 14:15 | |
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In response to QuickDeath, the fact is, my father didnt make any decisions on this matter, as we was sadly oblivious to the whole thing. Dont get me wrong, Im not here to make whine from sour grapes over the the death of BPB and the Clan(n) OMalley. Quite the opposite infact. Just a couple things Id like to clear up. The first, and only thing BPB heard of this whole buisness of his family member assisting a rogue was when Malicious' son came to the streets claiming Hi knew one of ours was pro wacking. To be honest, I didnt put alot of credit in Mals words. While he had proven himself to be friendly and helpful, honest and loyal werent exactly merit badges id have pinned to his shirt. Im still a little in the dark as to which Clan OMalley family member had been doing this pro wacking, but from what Ive heard here, I can only assume it was -K-. I can only assume because even now, noone has come to me and said, "Hey, are you aware that -K- from your family was pro wacking the rogue the other night?" This is also why -K- was rewarded with a promotion to Capo, rather than a punishment of death. So far as BPB knew, she was a good and loyal upstanding family member, as no evidence had ever been brought to him to show otherwise. I guess thats my only problem with the whole business. Noone came to my father to see if he was aware of what was going on. Thats probably the inevitable downside to having a man such as Hi as your second. While some Right Hands complain that they are not being taken seriously as the families head in their bosses absence, I think my father probaly would have had a tougher time convincing others that he was indeed the head of his family. Not to say that anything would have been done differently had BPB been brought into the light over the matter. Hi was chosen as Right hand because of his intelligence, his fortitude, and his LOYALTY. And to those of you who would think I should question his loyalty after this matter, I can tell you with all certainty, that had Hi thought for a moment that his "actions", or lack there of, would lead to the downfall of his family, things would have played out differently. I think it also needs to be said that His "mistake" presented a huge opportunity for the rest of the families out there. There is no doubt in my mind that when Hi showed that his formidable gun was able to take down a Don, the entire mafia world made in their collective panties a lil. Im not saying this influenced anyones decisions on what actions needed to be taken, but frankly, Id be surprised if it didnt. Noone likes the possibilty of being on the business end of a howitzer. Regardless, Marietta and Zoey, you made the decision you needed to make, and I dont think anyone could find alot of fault in you for doing it. Certainly there is no hard feelings from my family line. In fact, I'll let you in on a little secret. I visited my father as he lay bleeding on his death bed. In his final moments, he grasped my hand tightly and said, "Tell Marietta thank you for everything. Thank fuck its over!" With that he smiled, closed his eyes, and slipped away. |
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| Reply by: Father_OMalley at Dec 01, '08 14:37 | |
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| Well....you listen to a rogues thug son over approaching a Boss you all authed......Great line of communication really.... | |
| Reply by: Fracture at Dec 01, '08 14:44 | |
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Yes, yes you have done something to help the rogue. You have pledged yourself and your family to stay out of the hunting dealings, and are allowing them to carry on with their destruction. Striking a deal with a rogue is a pure bid for power or an act of cowardice, nothing more. Like Hi, my first instinct is to protect my family. I am a mother bear fighting for her cubs. There is also a time to realize that sometimes the cubs can fend for themselves better than the momma bears and cubs of other families, or cities. Therein lies the problem. While the rogues did not initially go after my family or Detroit, my men and women were on the front line of this thing. They were working their asses off to make sure it ended quickly, with little casualty to ALL the crime families of America, not just our own. I could have easily struck a deal with the rogue. At the time I had more than thirty million dollars in the bank, I live in one of the strongest cities in Crime, USA, and I belong to one of the most powerful crew leader duos that we have seen in this world for some time. I very easily could have made a deal. What more do people want than money and power? I have it in spades. And yet I didn't offer to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight (just for you, Nino, had to throw that in there). I, and Zoey, and our men and our women were there from the moment we saw Taskmaster die, up until the last moment when we said our goodbyes to Clan O'Malley. We lost some damn good people erradicating a force that had cost our community dearly. You say that in these instances it is best to look out your family. In the instance of a rogue, the community becomes one big family. I hate to break it to you, yet that's how it is. Rogues are bad for business, end of the line. But why would you not work with people to defeat the foe? Why would you go against something that ultimately will benefit us all? It's a very N.I.M.B.Y. attitude, and I'm sick of it. If you have these sort of feelings about the situation, consider yourself dead not long after the rogues.
See above. Like I said, there is a certain line that needs to be crossed in order for a city to take down another city. When one city or one family becomes a threat to the general community- one I worked my ass off to create- they will be eliminated. End of discussion. Whisks her girlfriend Zoey off so they can play "puppet master". Oh kinky. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Dec 01, '08 14:56 | |
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Ah, I forgot to mention... Before those dieing words, he also went on in great length about how much he wished he could have one more moment with his family, to tell them how much he loved them, and how much he appreciated all their help and understanding through the times he wasnt able to be around as much as he would have liked. He said he was truly blessed to be surrounded by the very best. Hopefully their sons and daughters, and those that survived will have the chance to hear his words here. |
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| Reply by: Father_OMalley at Dec 01, '08 14:58 | |
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| May your father rest with the angels Father_Omalley he was truly a great guy, and did not have to take me in but you and Hi did so. I thank you for that. You was also kind to me and even shared a secret in which you did not have too. I appreciate that too. I did not get to stay in your family long and for that I am sad cause I felt welcomed and at home. I do not see how anyone could scorn you for what happened or blame you. | |
| Reply by: WilliamClinton at Dec 01, '08 15:06 | |
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| Follows Marietta and Zoey to watch them play puppet master... | |
| Reply by: Santa_Claus at Dec 01, '08 15:14 | |
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Marietta, I am not angry with you for your decision. It is possible I might have made the same decision in your position...maybe. It's a coin flip. More likely, I would have killed the prowacker myself if that person's Boss refused to take action. That's more my style, but different strokes for different folks. The reason I have to put in my two cents one more time here is to give you a reality check on your role in the seven cities. You seem to be patting yourself on the back for being on the front lines against the rogues and against families who were a threat. Guess what? In your position, that goes with the territory. I cannot tell you how many times my ancestors and my hitsquads stayed up for 24, 48, or more hours pursuing the bad guys while everyone else was tucked away safely in bed, counting sheep and sawing logs. When you are the most powerful, policing the community falls in your lap. So, for one time in my bloodline's history, my father sat back and let others do the work, and wtf? He is condemned for it. Take a look around at all the lazy asses who have been around for months, who are leading families, and who have not done a damn thing during their time. What were they doing to help? Because I did not live up to my legacy and save the day, it seems I'm a bad guy. Oh well. As far as -K-, no Hi did not kill her. He did not even have proof she was prowacking, until I confronted her on it. Even at that point, she swore she was trying to kill the rogue. I did not believe her, but she WAS a hitter with a decent shot record. She proved that by her contribution to the Chicago takedown. If it WAS an intentional prowack, it was a poor choice of choosing a prowacker. So, I took away her gun and she logged off. BPB promoted her when he woke up the next day, oblivious to anything that happened the night before. We later found out that it was Dickie doing most of the prowacking, and that -K- only shot and missed once. Was she trying to kill or to prowaack? I don't know for certain, and my father would not kill an otherwise exceptional family member over an uncertainty. So, he made the right decision and only removed the gun. Also, by this point we were aware of Striphe's plans. It was my hope that the rogue would attack Chicago and save us the problem of risking war against a larger and stronger family. Of course, my father was fucking awesome and it turned out to not be such a huge problem. At the time my father went to sleep the night of the rogue, there had been no attacks on your family. Had my father known that Tatiana was destined to die, you can bet your ass Hi would have stayed awake and killed every bad guy in his path. So, anyhoo, I'm not here whine, only to let you see the other side of the coin. As my father said in his reply to SuperSonicMal, "Things are not always as they seem". Yet, you saw a letter and took it at face value, then made an assumption about a Clan member which may or may not have been false. Things are usually more complicated than you think, which is why communication is helpful in resolving disputes. In this case, there was none, but I do not regret it. I am happy my father is dead, to a certain extent. Now I can move on and do the things he always wanted to do, but never had time for. |
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| Reply by: Pig at Dec 01, '08 17:32 | |
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Pig, I sypathise with the situation your father found himself in. However, your ancestory made many decisions regarding the deaths of others with far less evidence and with dubious conjecture. I'm not saying this is karma at work or anything that hippyfied. I'm just saying that we've all been wronged (in our own minds or others). However, it was good to see an alternative view. I'm sure the pork will make bacon soon enough. |
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| Reply by: QuagmireRourke at Dec 01, '08 17:42 | |
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| Run free Pig, run free! | |
| Reply by: SwingingBo at Dec 02, '08 03:17 | |
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