"It's nothing I'll miss, as far as the money goes. And the implications that I would lie and forge my name on someone else's charity of purchasing that hit off the market says far worse things about myself than one curse word about you. How unbecoming of you to lay claims at my feet with no evidence you sniveling rat, and to do it in such a smug way to claim you KNOW I didn't buy it off, how did you KNOW this?"

I'll accept the wording on my part wasn't the best. I didn't "know" anything, I checked the hitlist and saw the hits, presumed you were simply offering an example of what to do. Not once did I claim that you were pretending to buy hits off or any such like activity, I think you've got rather ahead of yourself and made some incorrect assumptions, somewhat like I did when I made the assumption that you didn't buy it off and were merely giving an example of the actions.

So now twice you've used descriptive wording, I'm a cunt and a snivellling rat? Lovely. What exactly qualified me to be a snivelling rat, then? You seem a little aggressive and on edge for someone that was so uncaring about the topic to start with.

"Your intended wording or meaning isn't of my concern, what you said and implied based on what I actually know is. If you're so lazy with your words describing another or their actions then lie in the bed you've made when you chose to put little thought into those words and what they could possibly imply. I care little for the topic, I care greatly about unfounded accusations. I have many vices that can be called out on any given manner and will humbly take those hits when they come, but I won't stand for false accusations of vices I don't have."

then lie in the bed you've made

I believe I did just that, right there, when I admitted my error. Same cannot be said for your own incorrect assumptions as to my own conduct. I didn't at any time claim what you have said I did. My comment was in relation to the belief you were offering an example of actions, as explained already, so to assume that I was making other accusations is really of no concern of mine either so you can take a royal fuck to yourself and go cry in a corner about your butt hurt unfounded accusations that didn't exist.

"I'm not in the business of second chances and forgiveness or holding your hand and asking what you really meant. I grant neither on most occasions, nor shall I ever apologize for my natural reaction to an accusation of the sort. I do find it amusing that you find it unbecoming of me to react to a false accusation with a harsh word and then use them yourself when no forgiveness for your poor wording is granted. Is not forgiving really a crime on par with false accusations in your mind? If not, then Hypocrisy thy name is you."

OK.

We've gotten extremely off track. WhereWasI at least has offered his own insight into what he thinks about the effectiveness. Floor is open for anyone else to offer their opinion on this situation.

I'm pretty sure all the avenues have been covered:

1) Buy the hits off.

2) Take on the hits.

3) Find out who's put up the hits and deal with them.

4) Stop giving them attention for posting the pointless hits when that was the desired result of those posting them.

Not sure what other answers you're looking for MarshallMathers..

Desmand my dear fellow, I wasn't asking for options on actions to take. I asked for opinion on whether anyone thought that the actual process of buying a hit on a person was effective or not.

No because most of the time the target is an unreasonable one and the pay-off not worth the result. 

If people started posting targets that could be shot with maybe 10 days work and the reward worth it, I'm sure they'd be taken on. 

Thank you Desmand.

I wonder why then people persist with wasting their cash on these hits? I've never been one for paying for such things, so I'm not accustomed to what happens when the hit expires. Does the money disappear down a black hole, or does it return to the person who used the function?

If the money returns, then I guess there was less risk than I thought and it was worth the try on their part. I'd love to hear from anyone that knows either way what happens.

I believe they do it because even if it is just a little, I'm sure that many if not all of the hitlisted people would prefer NOT to be in there. So even if it is just that, the hitlister put those names on a place where nobody wants to see their name put.

There is also the fact that if they want to see their name removed from there it will cost them money. It will probably make more than one look suspiciously to people that have no ill will towards them hurting some relationships on the way.

And Marshall, I am going to disagree that they don't get notoriety because they are anonymous. They are probably listening to us right now and enjoying themselves even if we don't know who they are.

Oh, and I am extremely sad at how few really realize what Marshall was asking us... really disapointed in how little listening comprehension skills we seem to have...

WhereWasI sighs,

"So whose listening skills do you believe are off, and why? What point do you think was being asked and what point was being returned? It seems odd for you to pass judgement without speaking of whom, what, or why you're judging. Almost as if a chance to pass judgement and hide behind a lack of clarity in the words, a disturbingly frequent form of comment in our community."

WhereWasI, you answered my question. Not sure why you would suspect the comments were aimed at you.

Thank you Aemon for taking the time to give your view, much appreciated!

Despite my little back and forth with WWI, I welcome disagreement, I'm open to the views of others and enjoy debating such things.

I still feel this person achieves no notoriety from this due to the anonymous aspect, but I concede they probably obtain some sort of enjoyment from having it spoken about.

If the hitlist was actually used properly, it would be a very effective tool. That sounds pretty obvious now I'm saying it out loud. I wish there was some way I could take back what I say before other people hear it. Hmmmmm.

Anyhow, regardless of anonymity, you have gave the 'culprit' attention. The very attention that they desire. There can be many reasons that people use the hitlist in this very retarded fashion.

As already mentioned, attention. Probably the most common, as everybody here loves a bit of attention, and if you say you don't, well, you're a liar. I love attention, it makes people feel like they're important. It is a sought after emotion.

They could be looking to cost some financial pain to their 'victim'. With hits such as these those, any Crew Leader with two brain cells to rub together to get the money together to buy the hit off in a very small amount of time. So for this situation in particular, I don't think this was the case. I remember reading my ancestors journals of a time when a Roman Emperor ruled over Chicago, said emperor had a hit of $100,000,000 placed on him. For a city as powerful as Chicago was, it took mere hours for the city to get together $200,000,000 to buy the hit off. Whereas it didn't take much time, it was still very detrimental on the city, so effective in one way at least.

Back then, there was no expiry time on the hit, so the 'culprit' only had to pay the one initial fee. Now, they have to 'refresh' the hit, and pay more fees to keep the hit up. This makes it very easy for the 'victim' as they could simply wait for the 'culprit' to get bored and stop paying the fee.

Another reason could be to judge the amount of minerals the community has. Do you have the minerals to take a shot that's been placed on the hitlist? We'll soon see who, if anybody, does.

We are mobsters, we are the mafia. We like to make as much money as possible. If you were standing in the street, gun in one hand, hitlist target ten feet away, and five million dollars about to be transferred to you, would you take the shot? It's a quick buck that's for sure.

(Obviously this isn't how it works in the game, but thinking about it from a purely RP point of view, most mobsters would take the shot for a quick bit of cash.)

"I never said it was me, MarshallMathers. I would just like to know because it seems to be a pointless comment lashing out at imaginary villains. Without names, cursing part of a vague group without saying which part is pointless. So to prove it wasn't a pointless comment, I'm merely asking for names."

WhereWasI turns to Telkin,

"I will point out that I mentioned that attention seekers do want what they chase in my second comment, but it was a brief comment and I thank you for correctly pointing out the glaring lack of that point's mention in this discussion."

My take, so far i have had the pleasure of interacting with the rest of NY, we have discussed some ideas, and tried to make some plans.   Ares and I have already been involved over certain issues in the hope that the stability of NY is a long term thing.  I know some people on the list are not always the most popular, but thats life, is not about being popular sometimes is just about getting the job done.

Do i think anyone ever deserves to be on a hit list no, why, if you don't have the balls to do something is better to invest your money into changing things, as once one person is gone is always others to hate. 

So do i think these people should be hitlisted? no

would i waste time hitlisting? no is quicker to shoot them and cheaper

what would i gain from it? nothing really as just will probably mean another competition and more people others claim they don't want authed in there.

do i believe in competitions for auth? no, but sometimes even diamonds have been found in a coal mine.

Does anything change? not really just someones out of pocket, as people know the un-necessary bloodshed rules, means they will be dead for taking the shots anyway

My take, so far i have had the pleasure of interacting with the rest of NY, we have discussed some ideas, and tried to make some plans.   Ares and I have already been involved over certain issues in the hope that the stability of NY is a long term thing.  I know some people on the list are not always the most popular, but thats life, is not about being popular sometimes is just about getting the job done.

"I applaud you for lending a hand. I do feel the some in NY is more then capable of making NY strong again. However I do object to a few things in your response. As it is my own opinion just as what you stated are yours"

Do i think anyone ever deserves to be on a hit list no, why, if you don't have the balls to do something is better to invest your money into changing things, as once one person is gone is always others to hate.

"The purpose of the hit list is for those who may not have the gun to entice others to take the shot. Granted we can all agree that the amounts put up are far from just that, but that's most likely what happened. I don't think it has anything to do with Balls, just simply probably someone without the ability to do so. There has been a lot of disagreement on these said competitions so it really could be anyone doing it."

So do i think these people should be hitlisted? no

"Well someone felt they should have been. Regardless of how upsetting it may be it was done and nothing we can do about it but buy them off."

would i waste time hitlisting? no is quicker to shoot them and cheaper

"Well that's true, because your in the position to have the ability to do so."

 what would i gain from it? nothing really as just will probably mean another competition and more people others claim they don't want authed in there.

"Well I sure hope that wouldn't be the case. Competitions happen once in a blue moon to see if they will work. If we continue to run them every time a district is eliminated then stability will never be had. On another note, I would expect whoever was to take them out the claim the district themselves. Not making room for competition."

do i believe in competitions for auth? no, but sometimes even diamonds have been found in a coal mine. 

"Absolutely, some diamonds are found in coal mines although the carbon process has more to do with it being diamonds do not come from coal itself, that would be graphite. It is in fact extremely rare, so if the comparison is somehow related to what you have noticed from those in New York then there's in fact less confidence of their ability of "getting the job done" in your mind pertaining to the leadership in New York then your opening statement let on. However I may be wrong. I do believe that sometimes people with quality leadership and ability to make a positive change can be found under uncommon circumstances. As I'm sure we will find one in this situation."

 Does anything change? not really just someones out of pocket, as people know the un-necessary bloodshed rules, means they will be dead for taking the shots anyway

"That sums what I said in one masterful statement. Someone who cannot take the shot but wanting to make a statement. Obviously the sums of money isn't high enough to entice, but look at what has arose from doing so. The statements themselves didn't make a change or raise an ear to everyone, we as a community have done so by bringing it to the streets. So I'm sure they feel some kind of gratification and see it as a success."

"Not only are hit lists used for those who aren't capable of taking the shot but it also be used as a job. If done correctly, Crew Leaders can assign targets for their men and place them there for their Mafioso's to get something a bit more then just a plus one. I myself haven't used this idea as of late, but my grandfathers have done so in the past. They said it builds communication and loyalty along with self gratification. Basically, there is many reasons people can use the hit list for different outcomes. It's an ability we are given so I personally don't feel there is anything wrong with people using it."

"Mass hysteria, however it may be caused, is a very powerful tool if you allow it. Regardless on whether you feel this has caused exactly that, it has everyone in the streets. As much as I disagree with it, something was accomplished on someones agenda. They didn't cause the reaction, we did."

"Absolutely, some diamonds are found in coal mines although the carbon process has more to do with it being diamonds do not come from coal itself, that would be graphite. It is in fact extremely rare, so if the comparison is somehow related to what you have noticed from those in New York then there's in fact less confidence of their ability of "getting the job done" in your mind pertaining to the leadership in New York then your opening statement let on. However I may be wrong. I do believe that sometimes people with quality leadership and ability to make a positive change can be found under uncommon circumstances. As I'm sure we will find one in this situation."

Quite simply the compression and carbon content alone of diamonds and coal are chemically different as well as the impurities within.  However, diamonds maybe carried from the mantle and eroded or fractured and embeded in rock on the way up via kimberlite and lamproite pipes in eruptions.  Meteorite and asteroid impacts, some thousands years past can leave diamonds, nanodiamonds also so even though not formed in a mine, still can be found.  tectonic shift also can form diamond before they are moved through sudduction zones so i actally more common then though although the diamond not made from coal.  Even in the gold mining processes diamonds were sometimes found and partially blamed on the extraction method.