Now, let me first pose my primary question, then ill dig deeper into why I have come out to ask such a question;

Is the art of street speaking reserved for those who are silver tonged, for the wordsmiths of this world, for those whose mother tongue is the language that we speak, for those who’re in power and for those who excel at speaking in front of a large crowd?

Now, let me try to get you all to understand my rational on this, for some time now we have seen people come to the streets to complain about the state of it, how poor it is and how lacking it is in activity and some of this I buy into, although I don’t think it’s in dire, id like to see more productivity with it but the streets are very subjective to the time frame we’re in and I’m ok with that. I understand that it can’t always be a hive of activity, that would be an extremely naive approach.

Watching how it has presented itself over the past months or so, for me, there seems to a pattern or rather a failing. What seems to happen is when someone takes to the proverbial soapbox to rant, to tell us of an event or someone one simply wants to sit and shoot the shit about their times gone by we, as a society, for the lack of a better term, only pay enough notice to those who speak well, to those whose English is top draw or to those who matter in this world, don’t get me wrong I’m just as guilty as the next person and this is not a crusade.

My point is this, does this behavioural patter have a negative effect on the streets, it’s easily picked up on by the street speaker, imagine standing there, speaking and everyone ignores you, this would deter anyone away from this place. Trending behaviours tell me that you mostly have to hold a position of power or be an eloquent speaker to be listened to. This practice, in my opinion, is not the way forward and has a derogatory effect.

What you don’t see is, when a crew leader, or god father or some one of substantial rank is ignored, there are always people standing around, ready to listen and input. 

Behaviour breads behaviour, if we destroy someone for using incorrect English or we demoralise them by ignoring them, they will not venture out here again and rightly so, I’m a firm believer in; we’re a product of our own environment and this is a thinking and a behaviour that we have created.

Is it up to us to proactively push the activity within the streets, to make most speeches worth while for the speaker? Easier said than done sometimes but surely someone who presents themselves out here deserves some kind of response no matter of rank, good English or whatever.

In my humble opinion, a change of thinking and behaviour is a good place to begin. Heh, people may not think that this is the case; some may think it’s appropriate to ignore or bludgeon those who don’t put enough effort in.

Thanks for listening, or not, you may deem me all of the above and ignore my speech, the irony would be great.

I, for one, would agree with you, that our reaction as a society has an effect on street speakers and causes many to not speak.  As someone who encourages speeches, stories told, songs sung etc., I frequently hear that people do not want to due to insecurity as to how people would react.

Virginia pauses to light a cigarette and look over the people milling about.

I try to let these people know that there are those of us who would help if the fear is due to poor speaking skills, proper language etc., and that the more a person does it, the less fearful they will become. Public speaking is an art to be practiced to do well at, it is not something that all people immediately can do.  After all, no one plays a musical instrument or paints a masterpiece without practice and learning on the way.

I do however, see the other side of the coin, where hecklers can be right although rude when (for example) someone comes to speak simply to bicker about or insult another person, who responds in the same manner, back and forth until people get sick of it. That sort of speaking would be better saved for the bar rooms or coffee shops. Hopefully some young bloods will hear what we have spoken about and step up.

Stubbing out her cigarette, Virginia smiles at Louie and walks off down the street with eye watching for any potential godo deal on, erm, aspirin, as the headquarters was running low.

I try to let these people know that there are those of us who would help if the fear is due to poor speaking skills, proper language etc., and that the more a person does it, the less fearful they will become. Public speaking is an art to be practiced to do well at, it is not something that all people immediately can do. After all, no one plays a musical instrument or paints a masterpiece without practice and learning on the way.

I do however, see the other side of the coin, where hecklers can be right although rude when (for example) someone comes to speak simply to bicker about or insult another person, who responds in the same manner, back and forth until people get sick of it. That sort of speaking would be better saved for the bar rooms or coffee shops. Hopefully some young bloods will hear what we have spoken about and step up.

Who has been recently insulted for using bad english?

Well ted, old pal. It happens all the time, look through Ooc Avenue it happens there, which is even more shocking, but you’ve missed the point. The whole thought process behind it, is that people will see it not fit to grace a speaker because they do not use correct English or because they get their tongues twisted, it happens all the time.

But I must say, that this world has progressed a lot, and it’s definitely not as rife as it once was and as I have said in another speech, that’s a credit to the current strong-hold, because we have evolved enough to be able to speak (more) freely. 

That’s going off MY point slightly though, my question was, is street speak reserved for the better speakers amongst us?

Why does it have to be about how well they speak? I don't get the point of this speech, tbh.

I don't get why someone who isn't a good speaker would get ignored. I usually only pay attention if they have something interesting to say, why can't it be because they just didn't say something interesting? Just saying.

Ted, of course it can be, there always has to be the, “want to read it factor”, and I’m the same pal. Behaviour doesn’t lie, if a speech is well spoken and interesting, you will get more people talking back to the original speaker, if it’s poorly written but still interesting there is always a less of a reply. If the person is less of a rank in this world, people will pass it by. Numbers do not lie, you can see how may people walked past and listened, yet they kept walking vs. how many people actually stopped, really listen and replied. 

Listen, I’m not here to slate those that do not have a good street prowess, it’s the opposite, the point here is to try to encourage us, society, to help those that fear this place to be more active. People for me, complain about the streets being “dead” yet are lack lustre in their approach to help it strive, me included.

I guess what I’m pointing out is that, we need to have a more open mind when we approach this subject, and that street speeches shouldn’t just be reserved for those who feel comfortable and those who matter. People will shy away from it for fear of repercussion because of their lack good-to-great language, that sir is a fact.

I don't get why we should encourage them to be lazy about it. If the streets are dead, is filling them with just about anything gonna help? Isn't feeling comfortable about speaking on something gotten from spending time talking about it? Also, I don't pass on stuff cuz it's just written in bad english, so who does since you know it's a fact?

You must have got my words mixed up, or you’re choosing not to really listen.  I’m not really sure where you think I said we need to encourage people to be lazy, you have lost me on that. It’s so far the opposite form that, pal. I always encourage people to actively talk here.

You’ve completely got the wrong end of the stick, of course its better to keep at something to get better at it, after all practice makes perfect and that’s exactly my point, so I don’t really understand how you got I wasn’t supporting actions such as this, I’m really lost on you, old pal.

Good for you pal, you shouldn’t pass on things because things are poorly written, a practice that should be more widely accepted, but sadly, its not.

It would not be best practice for me to name names here, but you’re arguing the very points that I want to get across, that I want you to agree with, so thank you.

I just think that taking time to make something sound good should be a good thing, and telling people they don't have to try will make things worse. I don't think you can tell someone bad english is good and tell those that have to work to speak good english that their effort was worth it.

I also don't get why you keep calling me pal. I don't know you.

Why not name names? If you don't and I don't believe it's happening why should I believe you if you can't even tell me one person?

I didn't think my english was bad... so why are you saying I'm agreeing with you. I disagree. People should have to try to speak good english.

Weren't you trying to convince others that some were speaking as if speaking without proper English didn't validate a point? Trying to convince those with a hard time speaking English to speak more often?

I believe that when you encourage some to speak with low levels you encourage all to speak with low levels. No one insults people for speaking with poor grammar because we understand as a community that not everyone can perfectly articulate their thoughts. That's why you can't name a single person who passes on a speaker because of poor grammar, because they are scarce or don't exist.

By the way, you're not the best of speakers so try to avoid using another person's grammar to score points in the future. As for your other point you're obviously a hypocrite because you just heckled me after complaining about hecklers. I wanted to ask you questions to see if you really meant what you said, and clearly you don't.

Good day sir.

Did I ever claim that it was a bad thing that you have poor grammar? No, I claimed that those living in glass houses should avoid throwing stones. You have a lot to learn about choosing what points to make, and your grammar isn't poor at all, it's just nothing to brag about. You're mundane, middle of the road, you don't stand out.

I'm still yet to sling an insult in my book. You have practiced hypocrisy by claiming a point from another person's poor grammar and you don't have the best grammar so it would be wise not to claim points from grammar. So I've stated descriptive words... and I'm left wondering where the insults are.

Your personal status is a bulletin board for why someone should come up with a good point before speaking if they want attention, in my opinion, because not all attention or points are good. Otherwise you'll be more likely to just start being overly defensive and going at curious minds trying to understand your point.

I still think our wires have mixed. You still do not grasp my first, very simple points, you have chosen to read it the wrong way to create, i didn’t insults anyone’s grammar, because i cant, as we pointed out, I’m mundane. so by your logic because I’m mundane, middle of the road i shouldn’t bother? 

I will try to put this across to you one more time, my original point was try to encourage people to use the streets more and that we shouldn’t, shun, or take a lack of interest in a persons speech because it wasn’t well spoken, or because they are of no importance. No matter of what you think, this happens, i have known leaders, gf's who do not come to the streets because of the very same reason, small minds like you, who believe people need to be of an excellent voice to do so, and this is the notion that id like to see gone.

This doesn’t mean people can be "lazy", this doesn’t mean that "encourage all to speak with low levels" it’s not a disease. The whole purpose of this speech was to try to help people understand that people with a lesser mouth full or words should be encouraged through the correct channels, ie. Working with people in their respective to set up, to help them talk in an "acceptable" manner for people like you!
That’s a very small minded approach, and one that I personally would not welcome. 

All you have done here is pick holes, twist and create an argument, much like another bloodline has done recently, any relation, if not, and the likeliness is uncanny.

Anyway, we’re flogging a dead horse, good day.

"i didn’t insults anyone’s grammar"

"You have just made a mockery of your points! You're completely blinding yourself and not really trying to get my original points!"

That seems like a contradictory set of quotes... I also love your sudden need for atrocious grammar for just the first part, it was quite entertaining because it was not nearly subtle enough to make your point. Your following grammar is mundane.

You claimed that we shouldn't shun, but you took a point from someone you thought was a poor speaker for using poor grammar. You don't like being heckled but you then used the above quote to rub it in that speaker's face. The wording isn't that of the type of man you're trying to portray, if you truly wanted to help others with lesser speaking abilities you should've just offered to help them with the wording.

Stating that a thread should get attention regardless of the quality of grammar completely discounts the value of grammar. If you can't understand that, then I'll explain. Imagine wanting a cheeseburger, now imagine being given three equally sized cheeseburgers, will the third taste as good as the first? No, because your desire for speaking has gone down. Now imagine that the third cheeseburger had by far the highest quality and you ruined its true value by eating (giving attention) to lesser cheeseburgers. You're asking others to pay attention to speeches regardless of their level of grammar. I'm saying no, I won't have those lesser cheeseburgers, I want someone's best attempt and it's easy for me to tell when it's actually a best attempt even if their native tongue isn't English because of some of the subtle hints one learns to notice from listening to speakers. A speaker can have high quality with broken English, you need to stop assuming and prove this phenomenon you're claiming because I think it's ludicrous for anyone to believe a large portion of the population passes because the speaker clearly has issues articulating their thoughts using the English Language.

What your suggestion does do is encourage people to believe that low level attempts at grammar should get attention, well what will that do to the mind of one with average speaking skills? It will tell him that someone else used poor grammar and got lots of attention so grammar isn't important and the whole thing will start going down hill rapidly if people accept your premise.

How can you call me small minded after claiming to want to help those who speak in broken English and discounted one of my points for being in (what you didn't know to be) intentionally broken English? I never claimed that low level grammar is a bad attempt from those who struggle with grammar, I claimed telling people low level grammar isn't a negative is unacceptable because it encourages lower standards for proper grammar which should be encouraged, but not mandatory.

I haven't twisted a single word. I've pointed out the holes in your logic, if you still believe you're right, prove me wrong.

The relation might be because I have a method of communicating with him from beyond the grave (he left me an email address because I like his stuff) and I'm not the best speaker myself, so I let him articulate my thoughts. It's like having my own personal writing staff :D

Oh, and he would like to know why me sounding like him matters if you mean what you said :D

To answer your initial question Louie - No, you do not have to be the most eloquent speaker on these streets to be able to speak in the streets, and have their voices heard.

The most important thing to keep in mind when it comes to whether people will participate in one of your speeches is, how relevant is what you are saying to them?

What seems to happen is when someone takes to the proverbial soapbox to rant, to tell us of an event or someone one simply wants to sit and shoot the shit about their times gone by we, as a society, for the lack of a better term, only pay enough notice to those who speak well, to those whose English is top draw or to those who matter in this world, don’t get me wrong I’m just as guilty as the next person and this is not a crusade.

Let's look at each one of the points that has been brought up.

1. If someone has spent the time to prepare a well- thought out speech, and manages to execute it well, why would we then not reward this sort of behavior? We WANT people to take the time to speak well and to contribute to the streets, not spew out garbage that people will wonder why the cleaners have not been by to take out the trash. If words are not communicated well, no matter how interesting, it will be lost to the listener because they will not understand what the speaker was trying to convey. This is important because not everyone speaks English as their first language, so if there is too much language that doesn't translates well, then you have lost a potential listener.

2. If English is not your first language, I don't think it is terribly bothersome to ask for help, so that you represent yourself (and your family) in the best light possible. Also, if you rush through your words without taking the time to go over what you want to say before you say it, then it must not mean very much to you. If it doesn't mean that much to you, why would it mean something to others?

3. Most of the time when those of importance come to the streets, they tend to bring information that is relevant to our business. We want to hear what they say; as a matter of fact, there have been many complaints when these people are not as forthcoming with information as people would want them to be.

 
I believe too that good behavior breeds good behavior, and bad breeds bad. If someone speaks and they have no one to listen to them, instead of that person blaming society, why not take a hard look at himself or herself and think how it could have gone differently. Why didn't the person's family members come out and support him or her? That would be the easiest audience to gain, right? So if the person couldn't get a few family members to support him or her, why would said person look to outsiders for support?

MMMMMM cheeseburgers, now im hungry!  despite anything said here today, i would have never, ever engaged in any form of debate with anyone or anything that is associated to that lineage, simply because i could have the most valid points you're ever likely to see, yet your fucked up logic would interpret them as something they were never meant to be, because you are a troll.

but just for shits and giggles ill say one more thing, god knows you'd never let anyone get the last word;

"You have just made a mockery of your points! You're completely blinding yourself and not really trying to get my original points!"

i fail to see how this insults grammar, it does not make reference to how something is spoken or words you used, so that point doesn’t really stand.

" I also love your sudden need for atrocious grammar "  please quote where i have indefinitely said this, we all know you love a block quote or two. This is what i mean by twisting, and fabricating and giving a sentence a meaning that it was never meant to, you're clever at doing that!

"What your suggestion does do is encourage people to believe that low level attempts at grammar should get attention, well what will that do to the mind of one with average speaking skills? It will tell him that someone else used poor grammar and got lots of attention so grammar isn't important and the whole thing will start going down hill rapidly if people accept your premise."

You're a deluded individual aren’t you, so because the person in front of me uses "poor grammar" it will catch on, ill think fuck it, ill join them and not bother, that is laughable, at best, And if people accept your premise they will be to worried to even try! unless we help them <---origanil point spoiler alert!

anyway, we're done, i shall await your reply, it will give me a good laugh, if nothing else (nothing to do with grammar, just simply your twisted logic and concepts) your relation will be ever so proud of you!

"i fail to see how this insults grammar, it does not make reference to how something is spoken or words you used, so that point doesn’t really stand."

The explanation point says your excited and it's pointing out something that someone who is looking to help those struggling with speaking in English would avoid pointing out :D

" I also love your sudden need for atrocious grammar "

It was talking about your first paragraph silly, I just forgot to copy this broken part to the front

"You still do not grasp my first, very simple points, you have chosen to read it the wrong way to create, i didn’t insults anyone’s grammar, because i cant, as we pointed out, I’m mundane. so by your logic because I’m mundane, middle of the road i shouldn’t bother?"

"You're a deluded individual aren’t you, so because the person in front of me uses "poor grammar" it will catch on, ill think fuck it, ill join them and not bother, that is laughable, at best, And if people accept your premise they will be to worried to even try! unless we help them <---origanil point spoiler alert!"

I guess you don't get why teaching by example is important either, lol. Bad examples breed more bad examples, like Miss Blaise said.

"anyway, we're done, i shall await your reply, it will give me a good laugh, if nothing else (nothing to do with grammar, just simply your twisted logic and concepts) your relation will be ever so proud of you!"

I'm glad we can both get a laugh from my jokes, Im quite the riot!