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| Just a little idea | Started by: DanielOcean on Jan 09, '09 13:37 |
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Danny walks on the street, a piece of paper in his hand. As he sees that the classical soapbox is free he stepped onto it. As a crowd gathered around him he began to speak. "Fellow mafiosi, hope business is going well for all of you. I've come here today because I'd like to share an idea with you which came to my mind a while ago. A topic which should be discussed and I'm sure at some time it had been discussed. As said, I had this idea a while ago and the reason why I'm here today is a speech a young Goomba held earlier today, a sign I'd say. You know, as family head Frankie Figs started the discussion about how many members the crime families actually have it came to my mind that not just the honored title of made man means something, of course. All the titles we earn in our lifes should mean a lot. It is something which will accompany us our whole life and it's a part of our character. Well, to the idea. My grandfather told me once that he knew families where mafiosi who got made by the Don haven't had the privileges a made man should have. Even worse, criminals who haven't earned anything got put in charge of mafiosi with a much higher and more important title. Mafiosi who were made. That's not right and that's why I am here today. I present:
As said, this is an idea, nothing more. Something I came up with and I felt the need to bring to your attention for a discussion. Personally I think it is a good idea. The titles you earn on the streets would be more important, the titles would be accompanied by privileges and you can actually go somewhere. Of course, titles can be attained pretty easy when you're a good jailbreaker or you knock over many 7-11s so I think this idea would also help family heads on their decisions, these titles would be harder to get as you give privileges to it. But is this possible? Can this be implemented into our thing? Does it make sense to base a structure on titles? I'd like to know what you all think of this. Thanks for your time. With that said Danny stepps off the soapbox and sits on a nearby bench waiting for the others. |
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| Good idea but most families already have this system in place! | |
| Reply by: Jack_Grimm at Jan 11, '09 15:41 | |
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| The thing that confuses me is Boss, Consigliere and Don. A Boss and a Don are in essence the same thing, and the Consigliere is below the Boss/Don, not above him. Also, the Cupola was simply a high ranking commission in Sicily that was the Capo Mandamento, Capo Provincia and Capo Di Tutti Capi in Cosa Nostra and it only consisted of the representatives/bosses not Consigliere, although they at times can represent a boss...the boss is usually the one who goes to the Cupola. | |
| Reply by: Carmelo_Gotti at Jan 11, '09 15:51 | |
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Carmelo: I believe Daniel is referring to the rank "Boss", not the status of "Boss of a family". Jack: No. Most crews have a basic sub-crew system in place. Where, it's 3-5 hand-picked people to lead the family in groups, no matter what rank. Daniel: I hate to break this to you, but you need more than a street speech and a nice presentation. We have had things like these (speeches like this, not ideas), and each of them fail to change anything. I'd advise you to speak with each of the leaders individually for their opinion, as most of them either don't give a shit about street speeches, or would rather blow it off than put in the effort to give an opinion publicly. Abeo skips back to his absolutely adorable HQ |
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| Reply by: Abeo at Jan 11, '09 16:36 | |
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Thanks for the lesson Carmelo but I have made my homework. The cupola as such as it is in Sicily exsits in a different form on IRC ave. The cupola was just a way express my thoughts on a higher structure instance which decides or leads the family business into a particular way and these decisions are made by the Don, Underbosses and the Consigliere. The job of a Consigliere you already know. And yes, as Abeo stated it was referring to the title "Boss" not the actual boss of a family. Maybe I should've made my thoughts more specific. I see the title "Boss" as a person who's acting as the "hammer" of a family. A person which executes the orders amde by the "Cupola". |
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| Reply by: DanielOcean at Jan 11, '09 17:33 | |
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| Since there is no "Underboss" rank, my assumption was that "Boss" was the equivalent of Underboss. The Underboss is essentially the crown prince to the Don of the family. When the Don is felled or gets pinched its the Underboss who steps in and becomes the new Don. In the rare instance when there are more than one Underboss then it is one of them who is chosen to lead the family after a Don passes. Consigliere is higher only in name as he usually controls no crew nor does he usually have the alligiance of any number of button men other than the ear of the Don. | |
| Reply by: bkstyle at Jan 11, '09 18:19 | |
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| bkstyle.... this wasn't introduced to change the "shift of power" that occurs when a leader dies. It's an entire structure change. When a leader dies, a RHM should step up, as the underbosses would need to tend to their own crews. | |
| Reply by: Abeo at Jan 11, '09 18:47 | |
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Sir, I think your idea is a good one, in theory. I have long held the belief that this thing of ours should have a greater correlation between rank and role. That being said, there could be practical difficulties with the concept. We are now in a time of peace and many bloodlines have flourished in the stability by raising themselves to high ranks. Certainly at the moment many families could staff their structure with capos, bosses, and even consiglieres as you describe. But in times of greater instability, and with a lower life expectancy, these high ranks are in much greater demand. How do you think your idea would transfer to these times of instability, when men and women in these high ranks are more rare? |
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| Reply by: MacLeod at Jan 11, '09 19:24 | |
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Well That idea is a very good one being trueful and id say most crews tend to have this in place just like Jack said :) Nice Ideas nice to see your expressing your idea to all :) Shakes Daniel's Hand |
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| Reply by: DeathKnight at Jan 11, '09 19:28 | |
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Quite well thought out, I must say; however I think the problems that face us today are much more insidious than just basic structure. I think we are in full agreement that rank has become "just another number" so to speak. You do a certain number of things and it is considered as an entitlement, rather than as a privilege. This tends to go unchecked as, as you so astutely observe, there is no correlation between the rank and the responsabilities. Perhaps there is more to it though. There is good reason that the higher ranks cannot be attained without the assent of the family head. Once someone is made they're actions are the actions of the family. They are now (theoretically) untouchable and considerable pressure would need to be brought to bear for them to suffer any ill consequence. At least that is how it should be. Recent events in our community have not fit this pattern and there has been some unrest perculating as a result. Now understand, I do not question the actions of any of the family heads. The decisions that they have made were there's to make and I certainly understand the need to maintain order. When a Don, or a Godmother for that matter, clearly states that something is not to be done and someone, especially a made member violates their sacred trust and does it anyway then there must be consequence. It is also true that sometimes the vicousness of the response is what helps to keep others, even outsiders in line; however, to some extent, the punishment must also fit the crime. Otherwise there may well come a point when the family will become paralyzed by fear and at some point will likely rebel against the powers that be out of fear for their own safety. Not a pleasant concept. A house divided will surely fall and there will be no place for the survivors either. Who is going to trust someone who turned on their own family? In point of fact these times of peace should make it easier than ever to effect a change in this regard. There is no need to quickly promote people in order to strengthen oneself. Instead there are a multitude of potential candidates and it should be much easier to find people of sufficient metle to fill the upper echelons. If I understand correctly this is part of your point. We don't need to have multitudes of people occupying higher ranks. Restricted ourselves to the number of people needed to actually fill the roles at hand will help us to become more selective and more demanding. Correct? |
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| Reply by: Diamond_Jim at Jan 11, '09 20:19 | |
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* Tequin removes the cigarette from his mouth and taps the ash onto the floor* " I am all for this idea, personally I believe if you are a made man you should deserve it, not because you have managed to tick a certain number of boxes. This will give more respect to higher ranks, and obviously make the family stonger in the end, stronger higher ranks mean stronger leaders" * Takes a final drag from his cigarette and flicks it to the ground and grinds it underfoot* " However, limiting these positions may well create anger and jealousy within the lower ranks who may never get promoted. An individual stuck at wise guy while watching people around him, more worthy or not, being made will eventually do something drastic as fustration builds, perhaps in the end hurting the family more so than if they had just been promoted and controlled" " Now, it is up to family heads to decide which is more important to them, the chance of fustrated associates or unworthy made men" * Removes a pack of cigarettes from his pocket and pulls out a cigarette placing it in his mouth* " While I am not attempting to give an answer for this problem, personally for me, a mere thug however it must be said, there is always the chance to gain new associates, however gaining strong and worthy made man is something that does not come along so often" * Lights his cigarette and takes a large drag, breathing out heavily he leans against a lampost and crosses his arms* |
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| Reply by: Tequin at Jan 11, '09 21:06 | |
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Grimm steps back into the center of the group so that everyone can hear. "Tequin is right thats for the Don's to decide. Some people are in this to make money other for obvious reasons what ever the reason not are call! What we must do is prove ourselves worthy not only to the Don's but to the whole family! Show commitment!" "Are you Committed? it is a simple question! For breakfast are you the pig or the chicken! both are commited the chicken gives up her eggs. Thats committed to a certain point but draws a line when it's about their life. The Pig, well thats commitment! The pig gives it's life for breakfast! waving his hands to calm everyone done I know your all commited but I said it to say this Does your Don Know if your the Pig or a Chicken!" "I'm worthy i my mind just like all of you but as Tequin so elegantly stated it's not are call!" grimm takes a long pause and again he looks each one in the eyes then steps out fromt he center of the group. |
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| Reply by: Jack_Grimm at Jan 12, '09 06:30 | |
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Diamond_Jim, I don't mean to be rude, but obviously this is untrue. You see, lately -48s > Family. So, Made Men have less privileges than you think. Apparently people in this world are more worried about protecting new people, even without sponsors, than their own blood. ANYWAYS...
You would think that, but it is actually the opposite. People are sadly content with stagnancy and don't give a fuck enough to change it, because it would: 1. Require effort 2. Require intelligence 3. Require going against the social norm So, most leaders these days won't be changing jack shit.
Why should it matter? It's not about the fucking individual. It's about the family. If everyone wants to be stuck-up and only preoccupied with their own rank, not caring about their leader's well-being, then they don't deserve the rank. |
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| Reply by: Abeo at Jan 12, '09 09:22 | |
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Leaders will always have an incentive to promote everyone as highly as possible, simply because it makes their family stronger. However, you will also find that no leader will promote anyone to made man straight away, without really knowing that person - and as a result the only people that make it past this key rank and progress to the upper echelons of the family structure will be those capable of such roles. |
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| Reply by: BiblicalDevastation at Jan 12, '09 09:59 | |
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"Once someone is made they're actions are the actions of the family. They are now (theoretically) untouchable and considerable pressure would need to be brought to bear for them to suffer any ill consequence."
"...context..." Perhaps the whole subject raised your blood pressure so much that you missed the rest of that statement. I think that you'll find that we're on the same page here:
N'est pas? " However, limiting these positions may well create anger and jealousy within the lower ranks who may never get promoted. An individual stuck at wise guy while watching people around him, more worthy or not, being made will eventually do something drastic as frustration builds, perhaps in the end hurting the family more so than if they had just been promoted and controlled"
Very true, it shouldn't matter; but it does. In a perfect world we could operate driven solely by principles. In a perfect world communism would work. In a perfect world... The problem is that we don't live in a perfect world and no, it shouldn't be about giving the candy to the crying baby; but if that is what is in the best interests of the family. Now, it may not be in the best interests of the family head. At least not if he is concerned about how history will judge him. Unfortunately, in the short run, it can bring about the destruction of the family. Which is more important. Actually now that I stop and think about that I'm not so sure. I mean the gut reaction is to protect the family; however what is really in their best interests, not in the short run, but in the big picture. I would much rather be remembered as one of the made men in a family such as that of MeM than forgotten as a made man in one of todays bloataucracies. Well, thanks for making me think; that's always a good thing. 'Till later my friend. |
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| Reply by: Diamond_Jim at Jan 12, '09 10:24 | |
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* Leaning up from the lamppost a cigarette hanging from his mouth Tequin nods* " Abeo you make some interesting points, if not a little pessimistic however. As I said before this is not the answer to the problem, it is merely a discussion" " You stated how the change would require three main changes or actions" * Sticks out a finger for each point* 1. Require effort 2. Require intelligence 3. Require going against the social norm " This is very true indeed, and as you mentioned it is this fact which may well stop changes from happening, at least for a while. It seems to me a little pessimistic though to believe that this will never change, and you seem to be saying, deliberate or not, that this discussion is pointless as it will never come into effect. However surely the point of discussion is to explore different ideas? And not to swipe one aside as you believe the current leaders are too stuck in their ways" * Lights the cigarette in his mouth and has a long drag* " Now then as for it all being about family, that is true, but perhaps far too much of an ideal view. You must remember that the family is made up of individuals, each with their own eventual goals, and whether or not it conforms to the leaders, their own views. Whilst you may be happy to sit at wise guy, others may not, believing that they are perfect material to be made. It seems that most people can only see the short term, and the quest for the next promotion is the perfect example of this. Unrest in the ranks can cause can damage families, I am not saying it will, but it could well do" * Flicks cigarette ash onto the floor and takes another drag* "I realise that I am rambling on here, and I have made quite a long speech, but one final thing! While I realise that the larger amount of higher ranks there are the stronger the family appears, but if we think of the long run is this actually true? Surely with selective promotions the family will then infact be stronger, with made men who are more than up to the job?" * Places his hand palm up* " On the other hand though is it possible for a family to grow with such selective recruiting? Or is it in fact a better idea to only bring in such considerations once a family has reached a certain size?" * Leans back on the lamppost and chuckles* "Ok I'm finished now!" |
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| Reply by: Tequin at Jan 12, '09 11:08 | |
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| I guess what I am trying to say is that ideally, in my own opinion, the RHM should be reserved for a Boss and the LHM should be reserved for a Consigliere. That is the structure that would make most sense to me. | |
| Reply by: bkstyle at Jan 12, '09 11:22 | |
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bkstyle, a structure might be something highly individual but for me a RHM and a LHM are both executives and a Consigliere is an advisor not an executive, in my eyes. Well, Tequin, if it would be me I'd rather have tons of frustrated associates and few worthy made men than happy associates and unworthy made men. A strengh of a family isn't based on how many members or better said on many high ranked members. For me the strengh of a family is about the connections within the family, people who are willing to reach up high. For me it's quality above quantatiy. A strong foundation on which can be built, I hope I chose the right words. Things can be changed if those in power are willing to change, there will never be change without willing. Now some might say the old classic..."Then do something about it."...as seen in a speech by KOOP and I agree with him, a speech is a way to try and get things changed, what more can I do without breaking any rules? Anyways, things can be changed, I'd like to see changes as I think that the titles we wear are nothing more than a few letters and a bigger drug bag anymore. |
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| Reply by: DanielOcean at Jan 12, '09 15:23 | |
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* Tequin smiles and nods at Daniel* " Could not agree with you more there pal, it's good to see that some of us think the same" * Takes a drag of his cigarette* " As I said before I also believe that what is a few fustrated associates when compared to a strong upper structure. All I was doing was attempting to show how there is always two sides to an argument, and it is up to the family heads to decide how they wish to deal with them" " However whilst I may make these speeches I myself am in no postion to tell the family heads how they should behave, it's merely suggestions. The difficulty it seems to me, if we decide that these changes take place, is when do a family put them in place? A new family will struggle to grow if its members are not promoted into the high ranks." * Pushes back his hair* " Then again maybe if they see the big picture, in the long run it will help them" |
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| Reply by: Tequin at Jan 12, '09 15:41 | |
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Strolling the streets, MacLeod hears an interesting discussion. He stops as he hears words of anger from a nearby gangster. "Diamond_Jim, I don't mean to be rude, but obviously this is untrue. You see, lately -48s > Family. So, Made Men have less privileges than you think. Apparently people in this world are more worried about protecting new people, even without sponsors, than their own blood. ANYWAYS..." After waiting a few moments, MacLeod speaks up. Pardon me, sir, but you seem to be a bit confused. You speak of loyalty, sir. The deep, limitless bond of trust that flows between a boss and his made men. The ultimate trust. "Their own blood", in your words. And you profess disgust that a boss would disown a Made Man who has committed crimes against these citizens so new to our shores, who aren't even family. Correct? Yet a Made Man, a true Made Man, swears his unending loyalty to his boss. To defend his boss's life at the cost of his own. To conduct himself with honor at all times. And to support his boss and family at all times. It is common knowledge that every current CL (as far as I know) is at least nominally supportive of the 48 hour world. You speak of blood, sir, but in your hypothetical situation there is a Made Man who has willfully cast off the trust and honor that his boss has bestowed on him, by engaging in what is known to to an encouraged and forbidden activity. Such a man does not deserve the bond of ultimate trust you speak of- so why the vitriol? Turns his attention to another matter. My congratulations on an excellent discussion, Mr. Ocean. I never underestimate the power of words, and while they may not cause the immediate change that a bullet might, they often have a greater range. Tips his hat to DanielOcean and continues listening. |
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| Reply by: MacLeod at Jan 12, '09 17:49 | |
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