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Requiring Auth to Shoot Lower Ranks - ? Started by: Diamond_Jim on Jan 25, '09 11:59

... is more than three ranks below you. You need authorization to kill him.

This just doesn't make sense to me. I mean ok, I see where the gods were coming from with this; but as part of a RPG it just doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to go bursting into my bosses office to ask him if it's alright with him if I shoot some no-account, low-life associate who has been hanging around the family for the last two days and has started lipping me off and/or otherwise disrespecting me or someone I respect. I'm just gonna pull out my gat and wack the little puke.

It's even more annoying when you have something like the Piasta invasion and you can't use your gun because there's no-one around to grant auth! Jeeze.

This is going in OOC instead of Game suggestions because I think the solution is right in front of us, doesn't required the gods intervention and actually helps address another issue that many of us have.

I think that along with the benefits of being made permenant auth should be granted as part of the ceremony. I mean if you don't trust a guy with a gun why in the hell would you give him a button?

This would also help to bring back some of the lost status of "being made". The effect is, in fact, two-fold. Bosses will consider the promotion more carefully knowing that they are handing this guy permenant auth at the same time. Currently it seems to be harder to get permenant auth than it is to get made! From the point of view of the community the low ranking low-lifes would certainly pay mucy more carefull attention to how they behave around a made man, knowing that he can reach in his belt, pull out his gat and wack them.

Reality is that for most situations you are going to go to your boss and discuss things before you shoot someone anyway. That's just the way things are done. The current auth system is back asswards though. You need to arrange a sit-down to deal with problems you have with someone who has been made; most bosses would actually probably get annoyed if you came running to them everytime some podunk gangster needed a fish sandwich!

Am I out to lunch here or what? I'm not just blowing off steam; although that is part of it. I really do value the input of the community. I hope to one day be in a position to effect some of these types of changes so I think it is important that I understand how you guys think. So if you have a contrary opinion please, by all means, voice it. No one is going to bust a cap in your ass (or request auth to bust a cap in your ass if you're lower ranked - lol, see the oddness of that) for having a different opinion, provided you present it respectfully.
 
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Hey DJ.


I think as far the MR goes, it is basically to prevent those in the WiseGuy and Mademan area, from accquiring a god complex just because they got made and someone ran off at the mouth..I could be wrong though
Reply by: High_SocWinter_Hill at Jan 25, '09 12:04
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If you trust someone enough to be made, they should be trusted to use their own head when it comes to clipping someone, but hey I'm not everyone.
Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at Jan 25, '09 12:11
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Yes, but that is somewhat the point, at least as far as Made Men go. If we took a little more care in giving out the rank the problem shouldn't exist. Of course there will always be the odd individual whose orbs will go out of orbit and behave irrationally; but with appropriate screening measures in place it should be an isolated enough occurance to make it a non-issue I would think.
Reply by: Diamond_Jim at Jan 25, '09 12:12
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I couldn't agree more DJ, you seem to have grasped the concept that many have overlooked and I commend you for that. There's nothing I can add to your argument, and can only offer my agreement to your case.
Reply by: Denver at Jan 25, '09 12:15
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I can't go to far into detail - Omerta, afterall - but if you can't genuinely trust your mademan with the perm auth amongst other things, they don't have any business being made. It's not something the game mechanics should change for, but the methods the community uses.


Let it be noted - perm auth cannot be granted unless it's asked for... Just a little tidbit.
Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at Jan 25, '09 12:24
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Part of the joy of role playing games is being given the ability to control your own destiny through the choices you makes. Things like this interfere with your free will. The auth function should not be coded. If a mobster wants to wack someone, he wacks them if it is excusable. If the target is a mademan or above, he needs to get permission from the boss. If the old men feel the guy is getting a little too trigger happy, he gets fitted for cement shoes. Why is code needed for any of this?
Reply by: MrsButterworth at Jan 25, '09 12:38
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I came across the same problem as DJ when trying to rid our society of the dreaded Piasta family.


I wholeheartedly share you views on this although would suggest you do place it in the suggestions thread as it seems that some of the current crew leaders are blinkered slightly in their view point.


As I mentioned to DJ, it seems ludicrous that as a senior rank within the family, a position i should not be in unless the Don has complete trust in me, that I could potentially be shot at by a low ranked associate yet not even be able to shoot back without asking for auth. How can this be logically the right way to operate?!


It seems that a gangster who might have been on the streets for just a day wields a gun more readily than a Made member of a family. Who is more likely to act inapropriatly with their weapon, a gangster fresh of the boat with nothing to lose, or a senior rank that has worked on their account for weeks and months and probably has the ambition to want their own crew?
Reply by: Lucertola at Jan 25, '09 12:49
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yes all this is true,


but it fails to take in to consideration why the change came to be.


the admins saw that the CLs and other of the highest ranked were abusing the new and the homeless, and due to their rank getting away with it.


As you all know, you dont have the top of the pile heading out there to dispose of the trash. If Gotti got dissed, he did not march over and shoot out someone elses brains.


As a matter of fact, mobsters who did that kind of work (like dutch schultz) were considered mad dogs and ended up being eliminated.


I like the idea of give Made men perm auth, but then, that still does not resolve the issue that bugged Squishy about the absolutely non realistic way the top echelons were popping their guns.


If you want to abolish that 3 rank thing, you have to come up with a solution as well to the other problem.
Reply by: Fu-ManjuRourke at Jan 25, '09 14:36
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Thank you Fu. You've made an extremely good point and one that I hadn't even considered.
Reply by: Diamond_Jim at Jan 25, '09 14:42
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I do have an idea about that :)


I'll post it to you later
Reply by: Fu-ManjuRourke at Jan 25, '09 15:09
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My key issue is that personally speaking, being accepted as one of my Family's hitman is always the greatest honour. For me, being on the mailing list for the hitsquad IA list, and being invited into the Hitsquad's irc channel was always the greatest honour, above getting made and even getting authed.


Call it rose tinted vision, but I remember when being a hitter was a big big thing. People looked at you differently becuase you were one of the few who were dedicated (or stupid) enough to train a gun, knowing that when a war arrived you'd be first to die; nowadays, you just get acknowledged as the person with the fast connection.


In my opinion, although Made Man is unequivocally a massive promotion, to give every Made Man perm auth is to further diminish the sense of pride and honour that comes with being a hitman. I can think of much better ways to celebrate the arrival of a new button man into the family.
Reply by: KingOfOnePercent at Jan 26, '09 06:37
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I think they should just go back to the olden days when you needed authorization to kill anyone over earner.
Reply by: RourkeyRourke at Jan 26, '09 11:12
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We can always remove authorization, however, to make it fair, the same would have to go in reverse. This means that any gangster or above could shoot at any high ranker.


With the 1%, this severely changes the game. This means that every account, regardless of how strong or how badass it is, could be killed in 16.6 days by gangsters with 0 work put into their gun. (And this is assuming the high ranker never voids his pro and stays proed the entire time)
Reply by: ForkRourke at Jan 26, '09 15:40
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well i aint gonna lie i have never been a fan of the auth system(or bodyguards to be honest) but i understand Made men and above would not be out and about beating or shooting these people. I think the perm auth is there to do the job though as if someone trusts them with being made, they should trust them with perm auth.
Reply by: BetterOffDead at Jan 27, '09 21:10
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Yay for PermAuth


Amirite?
Reply by: Lobotomy at Jan 28, '09 23:45
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Well look at it this way. I mind my own business on these streets and work hard for my Family. One day I flew to LA for a drug deal. I was still a Gangster at this point. Whilst in the midst of this deal, a Made-Man took it upon himself to have a pop at me.


His reasons for this are unkmown to me, I had only ever spoken to my Consigliere!


But now the Made-Man is Dead.


Perhaps people of higher rank should take this into consideration before they try to earn some gun brownie points, which I see as abusing their posistion and not letting anyone make any progress on these streets.
Reply by: Angelo at Jan 29, '09 06:30
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DJ approaches Angelo and introduces himself


Good to meet you sir; It's fortunate that he missed!

at this point DJ pulls Angelo aside, out of earshot of the others and speaks quietly to him


(OOC) So you are, whether you realize it not, actually re-inforcing my point. For that man to have taken a shot at you he either had to have auth for that shot or have permanent auth. It would trouble me some as either way his CL would 100% have to know about the shot either way. If it was authed his CL would have had to auth it or if the man had permanent auth his CL would have been notified of the shot after it happened (all shots taken under permenant auth are reported to the CL). So either this particulary gentleman had a few of his orbs out of orbit or there's more to it than you may realize!(/OOC)


I think that it's atrocious that someone would take a shot at you without just cause and I certainly agree that it was quite reasonable for his life to become forfeit due to what is doubtless a flagrant violation of the oath of loyalty he must have taken to his family; however a word to the wise: I would be a little carefull discussing things like this in the street. The death of a made man over an incident involving an associate does not sit well with some people in this community. I'm not chastising you for it; I would just hate to see someone else decide to take a shot at you over the same stupidity...perhaps you should let sleeping dogs lie my friend.
Reply by: Diamond_Jim at Jan 29, '09 07:23
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LOL - too early in the morning for me. All that trouble to stay IC in an OOC post...jeeze


Still, bottom line here is that either this fellow had a valid reason to take the shot (which seems unlikely, elsewise you would be dead now instead of him) or he was a very poor choice for a made man and an even worse choice for permenant auth.


I'm not suggesting that things should carry on the way that they are with people being promoted willy nilly and just giving all made men perm. auth. I am suggesting that considerably more care should be taken in whom we promote and only those worthy of such trust as is displayed by the granting of permenant auth be promoted. You see? Unfortunately in this man's case it is likely that his CL had that kind of trust in him; otherwise he wouldn't have had sufficient privilege to take that shot!
Reply by: Diamond_Jim at Jan 29, '09 07:31
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Thank you sir for the advice. I did not intend to upset or disrespect anyone. I think I have been wise enough to limit the information to just a Made-Man.


Which brings me to another point.


This is the OUT OF CHARACTER FORUM.


If someone is going to have a wobbler and start shooting at me because of a discussion in here, then they really should'nt be playing this type of game.


Only children or immature adults will shoot me for what I have said in here on this thread.
Reply by: Angelo at Jan 29, '09 07:45
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