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| A thin line | Started by: SalvatoreGato on Feb 04, '09 14:38 |
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Sal was sitting in the office above the HQ slash Restaurant slash Bar. He was speaking to a few of the guys of The Gato Regime and felt the need to drag the topic outside to the streets. He grabbed his coat and his hat and left the warm office to the cold outside. As he arrived at the soap box he jumped on it. "Fellow mafiosi, I came here today to speak about something which I think is important for us and which needs to be discussed aswell. I'm sure this topic has been raised once in a while but due to the current circumstances we have in our world I thik it's that time again." He took a deep breath and looked around the crowd that gathered while he was speaking, while pausing he lit a cigarette and took a deep drag on the cigarette before he continued. "I want to talk about recruitment today as I think with the number of families/sub-divisons growing it becomes more and more a part of our life as associates are important for business, money and of course strenght. Now there will always be some people assume recruitment as 'member whoring'. The bigger families don't need to care as they're packed but all thos other smaller groups will have to make recruitment to a daily work which needs to be done to survive in this world." He threw away his cigarette to put his hands into his coat to warm them up a bit. "I think there is a thin line between recruitment and member whoring and to see a difference is hard. Then again I have to ask myself why should someone care about what others say about their recruitment/member whoring. I'd like to hear some opinions on that. What recruiting? What's member whoring and who the f*&$ cares?" He jumped off the soap box and walked into the crowd. |
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"member whoring" Now that's a very interesting comment you had there. But before you start to discuss this issue, you must define the terms that you use. How do you define member whoring? How is it different from recruiting new members? |
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| Reply by: Fu-ManjuRourke at Feb 04, '09 14:39 | |
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I believe that member whoring is sending an unsolicited invite. Recruiting is approaching someone about joining a family, perhaps while touting your own. Speaking of whoring, I have a prostitution ring to organize. Up, up, up, and away! Oh wait, I forgot, I can't fly. Walks away dejectedly. |
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| Reply by: Deadpool at Feb 04, '09 14:45 | |
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Mailing every fucking under 48 hour old gangster with some shit about can I help you etc etc. 3 mails later and its join my family or someone will shoot you... That's member whoring in my humble opinion. Surely there can't be that many new people to our shores now? When I look round our streets I usually see a constant-ish number of people walking around. That to me means a hefty percentage of the young gangsters on our streets have had relations here before. If the peons want protection they should go to the family heads. Not a family head him/herself begging the peons to join them. Totally unrealistic. FYI whoring CL's this makes you look a bit of a cnut. Please stop it. Ta. |
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| Reply by: _ at Feb 04, '09 14:45 | |
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"I believe that member whoring is sending an unsolicited invite. Recruiting is approaching someone about joining a family" Those are not mutually exclusive, in both cases you are sending a note to someone who did not first contact you. An invite is nothing but an offer, a hand that says hello. Its up to the person themselves to decide what they want ot do with it. During the same time, the conversation can continue about recruitment. DO you not believe that the person who you are talking to can decide for their own self if they want to accept the invite or not? |
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| Reply by: Fu-ManjuRourke at Feb 04, '09 14:53 | |
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"Mailing every fucking under 48 hour old gangster with some shit about can I help you etc etc. 3 mails later and its join my family or someone will shoot you..." So in the case of just mailing you "whats up" and not sending that third letter with the threat, is that STILL "whoring" in your eyes? |
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| Reply by: Fu-ManjuRourke at Feb 04, '09 14:56 | |
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| I hadn't thought about that. So, I suppose that's the question. If, as a crewleader, you approach someone to join your crew before they approach you, is it whoring? I don't know. | |
| Reply by: Deadpool at Feb 04, '09 14:59 | |
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I am still waiting for my invite. My basic point is valid you can try and argue the small details as much as you like Fu. A peon should approach the family head. No mafia member approaches random bums off the street offering them work. It is a annoying aspect of our world that the sheer number of bodies in a head quarters makes the leader stronger. Hence this frankly ridiculous practice of mafia members having to buddy up to every idiot walking down the street trying to lure them into their HQ. |
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| Reply by: _ at Feb 04, '09 15:02 | |
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Stapled acknowledges the last speaker but didn't manage to catch his name This is an interesting topic of conversation and I feel that I should give my opinion for whoever wants to hear it. As a new leader to Detroit, my first natural instinct is to want to have the best HQ around and be full of hard working mafioso. However, in the real world it is obvious that this does not happen overnight. I have committed to a small HQ for the moment and between myself, my RHM and LHM I am trying to encourage my new members of how to become a success in this business of ours. With regards to the recruitment of members, I feel that an honest and simple discussion with new members is the best option. You don't have to throw invites around left-right and center. Show them respect, explain to them how treacherous these street can be. I have always been a fan of helping out with new members to find a home. Not just my HQ, but anywhere they feel safe. I try to stress the importance of finding a family to serve for and the rewards that it brings in the long-run. I do agree with the unnamed mobster who spoke before me, ideally the new kid should approach a family head with respect and demonstrate what they can bring to your HQ and how they will be an asset for your family. However, we know from experience recently that the majority of new civilians to our shores are completely unaware of what their next steps should be and therefore need plenty of encouragement and advice.....but not to be hounded. He puts his hat back on and thanks the crowd for their time |
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| Reply by: Stapled at Feb 04, '09 15:05 | |
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No peon approaches the family head either. Im sorry thats not the way it works. Member whoring is sending an invite without first taking the time to discuss the persons situation. I personally mailed around 7 or 8 people when I was a recruitment officer working under Guardian, 5 replied saying they were new, 3 didnt reply. Out of those 5 1 accepted an invite to another family, 2 were not worth my time due to their attitude and mannerisms and the last two, until recention when one retired, were Wise Guys under my own name. Now you tell me what member whoring is. |
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| Reply by: LouisGato at Feb 04, '09 15:07 | |
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Nice of you to come out and speak your mind Stapled. Although as you have just heard I am totally against the concept of mafia members such as yourself approaching the peons its nice to see your open and honest and willing to talk about it. I just feel and it's going to sound ridiculous but as a no body if I were ever to run a family I would only want members with the basic wits to fashion out a decent invite request. For a family a member should give his everything, his work, his time, his life and his soul. Not too much to expect them to be able to knock up a decent application letter before doing all that... |
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| Reply by: _ at Feb 04, '09 15:09 | |
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It's pretty simple in my opinion. Families shouldn't be "recruiting" actively, and certainly CLs/RHs and the like shouldn't be approaching people. Why would a crime lord be interested in picking up randoms fresh off the boats? On the other hand, I can see why those coming in from the docks with nothing but the shirt on their back might want to make a name for themselves and try, quickly, to gain some work. We are in a situation where the options for prospective workers are numerous, let them sell themselves to families, not the other way around. |
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| Reply by: SwingingBo at Feb 04, '09 15:12 | |
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_ smiles to Louis. Nice to see another family head out here speaking her mind. I applaud you. Unfortunately you seem to have problems listening. I already told you my definition of member whoring. We have a difference of opinion fair enough. I can live with that...(FYI anyone retarded enough to send out random invites would never surely get the chance to lead in our world no?) I can understand people wanting to help the younger members of our thing. I surely can. But it is my opinion they must not be coddled. Imagine the scenario; You are born into our world, not a clue what is occuring, you look around our streets and see the many posters about families and the things that happen to those who work without a family. Do you A) Ignore it all die leaving no relations to continue your family line. B) Get into a dam family. 100% of the people here chose option B. Is the loss of people who would have chosen option A really a problem for our world? Are these the people we want to keep here diluting the gene pool? Thank you for your time. |
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| Reply by: _ at Feb 04, '09 15:14 | |
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I, myself, have approached people offering a helping hand. Like my brother and boss Louis already said some ignore me, many are new to this thing of ours. Now that's all I do, I offer help and try to get in a conversation with those people and then I see where it leads me. I encourage those who don't know it better to get a 'Family'. I don't say our Family nor I say any specific names. Some I've invited and some I just directed. Now I think that it's important to differ from family and protection by a family. In my opinion you are not part of a family until your made. But that's a different story and yes I know that I don't wear the title of a made man. Anyways, it's hard to stay alive and reach something even in peaceful times and a strong base is needed. A family costs money and to be competetive in this business you need money. I would not consider offering help as member whoring and if I invite poeple we offer them protection. Now sending out random invites with a conversation is member whoring and in my opinion it can be a dangerous thing. |
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| Reply by: SalvatoreGato at Feb 04, '09 15:25 | |
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| I agree with Don Stapled on this issue. And at the moment, with there being so many great HQ's out there to choose from, it may be intimidating for someone just touching the soil to decide on where to go and who to give their loyalty to. I don't see anything wrong with providing some direction, suggestions and general help. | |
| Reply by: Carmine_Ttrapani at Feb 04, '09 16:50 | |
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The idea that part of a CL's (or RH's) daily business includes wandering around the docks, offering a helping hand to those fresh off the boats is completely ludicrous. Even more so when it's being done with complete impartiality, what is this, charity work or the mafia? Still, this is where we are it seems... |
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| Reply by: SwingingBo at Feb 05, '09 03:43 | |
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Who the hell is talking about charity. I see those new guys arrive in our world. They start stealing purses or rob stores. They begin to deal drugs and start to get into the business of crime. I see that they're doing all that. I see that they earn money with their crimes which tells me they have potential to be a part of the mafia so I go and talk to them. That's charity? Helping them out when I think they can go somewhere. That's charity? I don't think so. What's the mafia?! You guys really think the mafia is an organisation which sits in their HQ waiting for random poeple come by and throw in an application? No, that's not how it should be. The mafia is looking out for people who commit crimes or show potential for this live of ours and when they're acting good they can work for a family. Thugs or Civilians who want to be part of the mafia need to get the attention by those who can offer a job or protection and this should happen with their actions not with a letter. |
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| Reply by: SalvatoreGato at Feb 05, '09 04:00 | |
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That is not really how it works, either. The fresh members make a contact with someone in the family who vouches for them. They start off doing work for a lower level member of the family. It is a long time before a made guy, or especially the Boss, even acknowledges that they exist. As they do more jobs and earn more trust, they work their way deeper into the family and gain more prominence until they eventually become an associate and later still get their button. So, you are both right to an extent. No, the Boss is not out fishing for new family members, and no, they don't write application letters either. |
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| Reply by: MrsButterworth at Feb 05, '09 04:09 | |
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With all due respect, I'm going to retort.
I am, clearly. How would you define charity? It's not necessarily monetary. The fact you are showing a level of benevolence and a helping hand towards apparently random strangers is enough for me. You said it yourself, "I offer help" or "I don't say our Family nor I say any specific names.".....if this is not for selfish reasons, to me, it's charity. At the very LEAST, if people are being approached, surely you are doing it for your own family's interest? Why on earth would you be doing it with impartiality? The kindness of your heart? Why would a mafia boss spend time imparting knowledge and assisting a new guy, just to see him join another family. What a charitable soul.
You know they're doing this how? How do you differentiate between those that you think "can go somewhere" and those that are wander the streets aimlessly. Are you now saying that you wait until word gets out that they've hit a certain wealth status so you can see they're earning cash and only then do you approach them?
Who said anything about applications? Things come by association, by the bum on the street making contacts with people who have contacts beyond what he himself has. Certainly NOT by a family head scouring the streets watching from purse snatchers, then making first contact. If you have an issue with people contacting your family heads with a letter or application, surely you could get the word out that you have not to be approached with applications and that certain, named, family members can be contacted instead.....that you will only "recruit" through the street bums showing their worth to said named members. No?
What?! Family heads across the country are watching for potential and people "acting good". I think not.
So let them get your attention by their actions then, surely. |
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| Reply by: SwingingBo at Feb 05, '09 05:06 | |
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Bo i agree with you here to a certain extent but as Sal said there is a very fine line were forced to walk here. I am one of one captains setup in det to breed the expansion of the great city. With so many new crews popping up its not easy to sit back and watch others pack their Crew while you sit back and wait for that "perfect" applicant. And secondly most of these guys are not returning members (aside from the one's returning from the war this morning, who will be joining their mates) But a lot of these new members to our world look at the crew's page and are overwhelmed by it. They don't know what they are looking for and in majority of the cases they will join a city they like not necessarily knowing anything about the crew they are joining. In one instance this one new member was talking to me about advice and joined another crew. Which was fine by me, but it made me wonder when i told him that hey your no longer civilian speak to your Crew heads for tutorials now, and they insisted on coming back to me. So just a case in point that they don't really know what they are doing. Lastly, where is this fine line, my crew has a solid policy on this. We see someone new, we strike up a convo we offer Help to navigate our world. NO we Don't offer invitations unless requested. I want them to make their own decisions what i don't want is someone who doesn't know what they are doing, asking another CL for advice while joining a crew that begged them to fill their ranks! |
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| Reply by: DiggerRourke at Feb 05, '09 05:30 | |
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