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| The Deal With New York! | Started by: Guardian on Mar 05, '09 17:51 |
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On the contrary Viva, with respect, I think it is you who is missing the point. Chicago does not need to have a conscience when it comes to other cities and/or other families. Ultimately, that is the bottom line. As for dangling the carrot, are we not all grown men that are in full control of their actions? You do something wrong, you deal with the consequences. If an individual does go through this process without discussing it with their leader, and that pisses their leader off, I would suggest that leader should deal with their (possibly former) member in their own way, up to and including death. Guardian has stated that any NY auths will not be aligned with his own, he is not offering protection. I would also re-iterate the fact that this "carrot" might not just appeal to individual members, but to leaders themselves. Is it so unbelievable that another family head might actually fancy branching out and instructing his own trusted member to pursue his interests of expanding into another city where certain money streams may be untapped? Assassin, if you are "old school", then it will be easy for you to grasp the fact that his fellow family members/auths in Chicago and money are probably the top two priorities for Guardian. Other families or cities (beyond NY) are not his concern. You speak of things being "softened". I would argue that things softening would, in fact, be a Godfather and his Dons actually caring about whether one of his initiatives might "dangle a carrot" for those that do not know how to handle such a situation. |
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| Reply by: Calcium at Mar 11, '09 11:29 | |
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Maybe you're right, Kingston. Or maybe that's the problem with this place nowadays. Everyone just sits back on their lazy asses and accepts what happens and moans about it later. Be true to yourself. Actually have the courage to speak your mind. If people want to go for this opportunity then good luck to them, it is their choice. However I shall not hold my tongue, simply for fear of people disagreeing with me. That has never been my blood's way and as much as this world HAS changed and my blood has mellowed, I will not be reduced to stopping short of what I really think on an issue. |
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| Reply by: VivaLaTeQ at Mar 11, '09 11:36 | |
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Having had my father killed for speaking his mind in a war of words where there was only ever going to be one loser (him), Viva, I applaud your stance. However, I do believe in the midst of telling us about your personal policies, again, you've neglected to respond to my last retort. I am enjoying the debate, but as you say yourself, better for us to air it now than sit on our lazy arses and accept it for the meantime, only to whinge later. |
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| Reply by: Calcium at Mar 11, '09 11:45 | |
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Granted, I had not considered it as a money making prospect for my own Boss. On those terms, I cannot do anything but agree with the idea as it would help out my own leader. However, from the original post it seemed a lot to me like a "Come get your bold suit, as long as you pay me for it" opportunity and I still don't believe that in the current climate of too many crews and very little activity that it would even be possible for a family to do that. Example; I setup in New York. First, a HQ has to be paid for. I may have the money to pay for that. Second, I have to pay rent on the district. Third, I have to give Brick a kickback. Fourth, I have to protect myself (BG's). Fifth, I have to protect my closest (RHM, LHM, HS leader) Sixth, I have to buy crackdowns in order to help my family rank and earn me more money All these expenses... Plus, I need an active, decent size family to cover them. It is not easy to recruit with so many families taking in members. I do not believe your idea is financially viable, Calcium. |
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| Reply by: VivaLaTeQ at Mar 11, '09 11:47 | |
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| I didn't see your post, Calcium. I was still writing my reply to Kingston. :) | |
| Reply by: VivaLaTeQ at Mar 11, '09 11:48 | |
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Ah yes, Viva, but perhaps the expense of doing it properly is what rules out the plums (those tempted by dangling carrots) from actually going for it. I also believe that Godfather Guardian stated that monetary discussions, for his part, won't take place until a suitable candidate has been approved. No one knows what form the rental structure will take, for all we know, it might be per member (note, I'm not saying it is, I've clearly no idea). Regarding the other points - anyone interested will already have HQ money upfront. Protecting yourself, your RH and so on is done over time, always. No one needs to buy crackdowns. Someone backed by their leader will doubtless have some "kickback" leighway. Infact, any CL that has set up a second family before will know that, initially, it will cost them money until things are established. It is more than financially viable. These expenses are barely any different to the normal expense of "setting up". As we have seen, those are no stumbling block. |
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| Reply by: Calcium at Mar 11, '09 12:01 | |
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I guess our opinions don't really matter, because we will see soon enough if it is financially viable as I'm sure one of the big guns is willing to sacrifice a bit of spare cash to make more. Then we will know who is right :P A rent and a kickback to a previous boss can prove quite expensive Calcium, as you said... no figures have yet been mentioned. :) |
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| Reply by: VivaLaTeQ at Mar 11, '09 12:41 | |
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I see it like this....this is a great opportunity for those who feel this opportunity best suits their situation. Really it's about your mob beliefs as a mobster. Like you were saying Calcium, "anyone interested will already have HQ money upfront". Having said that, if a member of a family has has the money for a HQ and family set up upfront, either they are not paying good tribute or they're a big part of the family they already are apart of. Having said that, leaving to start a family would be selfish and self-centered, considering the numbers of familys we have already, added to the cost it would take to start the new one (TeQ pointed out the expenses). Also take in mind there are very limited amount of crew members to take in. Too me, thinking in that "old school" manner, why would I leave a family that I make stronger as a whole to divide that family and raise the expenses?? Too me that sounds like a bad business move. Taking in mind that the proposal from the Godfather is a great business move for his family. Who really wants to make a bad business move so others can prosper?? I guess we'll just what and see. With respect, this is a good debate! |
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| Reply by: Kingston_Assassin at Mar 11, '09 12:43 | |
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Viva, agreed. As we're also aware, not all CLs take a kickback either. The fact is there are many factors that we have no idea about. At this stage, it's premature to say it's not financially viable, if people are motivated enough and, as I suspect will be the case with most, their boss is behind them, then cost will not be a problem. Assassin, I'm starting to wonder if you are actually reading these responses or just overly focussed on your own thoughts and getting your voice out there. Of course it is highly unlikely that some Made Man is going to be sitting with millions in his own bank account. If he is, I'd suggest he's a poor family member. That is not the case, however, if either A) his boss is the one behind a move, or B) he is planning on applying, with his boss' blessing. If someone is going to do this, they'll be intelligent enough to do it through the proper channels, we're not talking about someone doing a rogue style buy out here. You say "why would I leave a family that I make stronger as a whole to divide that family and raise the expenses??". There are many reasons for branching a family out (current HQ is full, expansion into a second city, more members means more money, more strength in a war, etc etc), if this was a bad move, it wouldn't happen so abundantly in this thing of ours. There is initial expense, but beyond that there is only profit to be made even after rent has been negotiated. Never will money stop someone setting up a new family, or an extended family, if they want it enough. Larger families mean more money and power, there's no two ways about it. Again, being "old school", I'd have thought this was all common sense. Anyway, this is all empty banter, if someone wants it enough, money will be the least of their worries. First they'll have to impress Guardian, Frankie and anyone else involved in the initiative. |
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| Reply by: Calcium at Mar 11, '09 13:41 | |
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*nods head* Sounds like the plan of someone who should be running a family. Hint hint *sits and awaits Calcium to move to NY* Well looks like you seems quailified. Why don't you take that first step. |
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| Reply by: Kingston_Assassin at Mar 11, '09 18:46 | |
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| My grandpappy left me a note before his own leadership came to an end. It said "Don't end up like your 'ol pappy, Calcium, it's just not worth it. That Marietta lass has breests of kevlar. Just chill out, live off Guardian's hard work and bug some plums on the streets". So here I am, following his advice and smiling all the way. It's much easier than the life he chose, so thanks, but no thanks! | |
| Reply by: Calcium at Mar 11, '09 19:03 | |
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