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| So... About those rogues... | Started by: Slevin_Kelevra on Oct 28, '07 05:41 |
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*Slevin stands on the street corner, listening to many people feverishly debating the events of the past few days. Opinions fly this way and that, not unlike the stray bullets seen planting themselves in walls of late, and he decides it's time to express one or two of his very own.* So... Rogues... What's the point? I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't mind all the fuss, it gives us all something to talk about, and livens the streets up a bit for a while, but at the end of the day, isn't it all a little old hat? Someone goes rogue, spouts off about someone else, kills a few people, causes a little trouble, but ultimately ends up dead. Surely when people decide to take the step into the rogue shoes, they know it will all end in tears? So what is it all for, shits and giggles? I personally find it a tad childish, and the reasons are normally poor at best. I mean, if you're really that fucked off about something, why not do things properly, work at it, get yourself into a position of responsibility, and change things for the better? Most rogues have put a fair amount of work into their criminal career already, it seems an utter waste to me. *Running his hand through his hair, Slevin shakes his head, and gives a shrug.* I don't know, maybe I'm just not of the mindset to understand rogues, I'm a person who likes to do things properly, not cut corners. What do you think? Why do these things happen? And I'm not just talking about the latest incident, there are plenty of debates going on where those bitchings can take place. I mean in general, why go rogue? |
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My bloodline has had many conversations with many people during their rogue regimes. From what I understood, there are two principle reasons why they choose to leave their family and begin shooting. Simply, they become bored and are looking for some excitement, or they seriously believe they've been wronged somehow and have decided to take matters into their own hands. In the first instance, the monotony of this life causes a person to "snap" and try to liven the place up a bit. These rogues are usually the easiest to kill, as their move was spontaneous and they have no real course of action. On the contrary, the other set of rogues tend to stick around, much like that one goddamn popcorn kernel that's wedged between my second and third molars as we speak. They set up because they believe that the current leaders have somehow wronged them, whether this be not acting when the potential rogue was mugged by a member of another crew or not selecting the potential rogue for auth when he or she reeeeaaaally deserved it, or anything in between. They set up to remove leaders and have this skewed image of themselves as champions for the misrepresented. Usually they know that their mission will end in their death and are much more dangerous because of that. This is why they need to be killed as swiftly as possible (on top of their blatant disrespect, etc, etc). I hope that clears some stuff up for you. |
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| Reply by: Lucks at Oct 28, '07 05:56 | |
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I guess some people just have a very misguided view on the world, and events in it. One factor has come up several times when I've been discussing past rogues with friends... Ego. I guess that is especially so in the case of those passed over for auth, thinking they deserve something that is then given to someone else... That must smart... I guess when it all comes down to it, the very nature of our industry condones the forcefull taking of power, glamorises it even. With that in mind, I guess there will always be another rogue on the horizon. |
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| Reply by: Slevin_Kelevra at Oct 28, '07 06:35 | |
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Perhaps they have a death wish, no longer wish to stay around and prefer to go with a bang? Clear up old grudges etc on the way out. Or perhaps they just don't like the choices of auth and want to make a statement? |
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| Reply by: Witchyx at Oct 28, '07 07:02 | |
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I would like to expand on Lucks' opinions. These people feel they've been wronged because a person has got into a position of power, and they feel they should be in the position of power, not the aforemenioned person. (Loving the plosive p's just there). With the 'second' It all comes down to two things. Ego and Jealousy. Either they believe they could do a better job than the person already established (if only for a day) or they crave the position of the person already established. They are the two principle factors, if you ask me. I would also say there is a third group, of sorts. It occurs in only one situation: war. Either their leader dies and a person sets up as a shelter. Sure, they aren't shooting anything, but they're still a rogue; they didn't ask permission to set up. Of course, they may be given auth after the event, but they still started their leadshrip as, in essence, a rogue. The other option are the hitters who believe by gaining their own HQ to improve their shooting. Their leader may auth them in the same city, but in a time of war, amidst all the confusion and panic, is that really applicable? Does that really count? |
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| Reply by: Templar at Oct 28, '07 07:31 | |
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| There's always a power struggle, someone out there who feels like they're not getting what they deserve and the like. They cross their fingers, hoping that they can duck bullets and come out on top. Now they're two CL's and it's up to them on who to auth. Will they're be another Rogue popping up and hundreds ending up dead because of it? You can bet your life on it. La Cosa Nostra has it's problems. But there's always some kind of a solution to every problem. | |
| Reply by: GiovanniTintura at Oct 28, '07 10:15 | |
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So we're discussing why it happens. Okay, well all the the people that spoke before me made some remarks that I agree with. The point that I'll add to this batch of comments is that there are always going to people that don't agree with the way that one leader is running their family - sometimes it can be several leaders. Why they don't rank up and get auth to change this matter? Well sometimes that option just isn't feasible. You could be the type of name who has has a despised lineage, or you could be trying your hardest to get noticed for auth and it just doesn't happen. Equally you can argue that to get auth it takes a considerable amount of time. And I think that a large majority of rogues don't do it on a mere whim. I think they consider their options ie. "Do I let this leader continue to live and to get stronger whilst I wait (and hope) for auth?" or "Do I go on a suicide mission to try and make a difference". In my somewhat patchy time in this world, I have come across two different types of people that apply to this disussion. Those that covet their life, who would do anything to hold onto it even if that means joining another family when their leader dies and not fighting to the end. And then the others, those who deem it a "bonus" to wake up every day and still be alive. The latter people are antipodal. They care more about the impact that they make in this world, even if it means that their life span is cut short by said impact. It is these people who appreciate the ephemerality of our lives in this world and know that they can try make a change, even if that means they will lose their life in the process. Now by no means am I attempting to aggrandise the actions of rogues. There are always two sides and both believe that they are in the right. But it is human nature to fight against oppression and people just do it in their own way. Some go rogue. Some start from the bottom and work their way up. Some just sit back and watch the actions unfold before their very eyes, choosing instead for others to do the work for them. But no matter what type of person you are or whatever leadership is in place. There always has and will be rogues. They are here to stay, no matter how much we debate their motives. And on a final note, I wish to let everyone know that I didn't kill my wife. Thank you. Dr Kimble hobbles off to gather information for his cause |
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| Reply by: DrRichardKimble at Oct 28, '07 11:28 | |
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I think we need to seperate rogues into more catergories. I mean you always call someone a Rogue if they Set up and kill people. But I believe there is more than just Rogues. Allow me to explain. Rogues do not plan at all they just act before they think. Which really is not smart to do. Now traitors are different they are smart, swift, plan from the very beginning, draw out every possibility, consider all their options, exceed the amount of kills needed to kill who they want, strike at the perfect time, have others who will participate with them just enough to have casualties and still be able to run a family. These are how battles, fights, duels and wars are developed. |
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| Reply by: Justified at Oct 28, '07 11:44 | |
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I would have to agree with Templar up until yesterday... With the 'second' It all comes down to two things. Ego and Jealousy. Either they believe they could do a better job than the person already established (if only for a day) or they crave the position of the person already established. They are the two principle factors, if you ask me. Right on in my opinion...now however its gone past ego and jealousy and into...who really cares anymore...get on with it...either appoint someone or dont The leaders have the audacity too go offline without doing so???....Whats that really say about leadership???...Theres serious peices to this puzzle missing here...You may take this anyway you like...Personally even those with like minds as myself wont be bothered to even reply to this rubblish anymore Your have the ability and intellect too shine right now...consider doing so is all I ask |
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| Reply by: Lux`et`veritas at Oct 28, '07 12:04 | |
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| Justified, if any given person sets up a HQ without the express permission of at least one leader, then they are a rogue. They may indeed be a treacherous rogue, but a rogue nontheless. | |
| Reply by: Templar at Oct 28, '07 12:12 | |
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the argument that rogues follow some nobler course of action to right the wrongs perpetrated against them is laughable. iceprincess solidified that stance. after a day of people defending her actions as being justified, it was by her own admission in agent scully's funeral that she stated she was, in fact, a rogue. let's look at the facts here, iceprincess may have started with intentions of killing just sprozza, but in the end she did much more than that, leaving her in the area of being just another rogue. it's always so sad to see rogues initially try to explain how their course of action as being that of an innocent person who is just standing up for their rights. anyone who defends a rogue's right to try to avenge themselves is equally as misguided and pedantic as the rogue itself. as members of the mafia, we have no rights except those granted to us by our crew leader. you were wronged and felt your leader didn't do enough? well here, i have two shoulders for you to cry on, fucking baby, pick one and let's call it a day. you should've chosen your family better if the decisions your leader makes offend you to such a degree. unless you are in bold, you have no rights except the right to contribute to your family. a family is not a set amount of individuals who get to follow their own routes. it's a group of people who follow their boss's route, and pray that at the end of the day it's the right one. |
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| Reply by: CathalTheCleric at Oct 28, '07 12:33 | |
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| CathalTheCleric I do recommend being a little more respectfully in the funerals when you talk about people as a group you piss more than one person off. Please just be a little more gentle with your tongue is all I request. | |
| Reply by: Justified at Oct 28, '07 12:57 | |
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| in the streets (not funerals) sorry about that! | |
| Reply by: Justified at Oct 28, '07 13:10 | |
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i should harbor and encourage rogues then, justified? did i miss the memo about being polite to people who set the community back? i'd say being harsh with my tongue is getting off pretty light compared to the systematic slaughter of three families. please explain to me why i shouldn't be offensive to those who serve as detriments to society? i'm not being sarcastic there either. i'd really like to know your position on this, as taking up for people who don't follow a family structure befuddles me. |
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| Reply by: CathalTheCleric at Oct 28, '07 13:19 | |
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I often see people on the streets who think that everyone should be shown respect. This is not true. The role that respect plays in the mafia concerns respecting those above you, those who are your equals, and those who are Mademen in other families. Rogues are never worthy of respect, unless they somehow go from being a rogue to being legitimate. I can only think of one time in history that this has happened. This reminds me of one episode written in the history books, when the acting Godfather of New York, Ganelon, ordered the death of everyone showing any sort of support or respect for any underground organization, individual, or rogue leader. These people are the antithesis of family organization. Family is what separates us from common criminals. It is the foundation of organized crime. Rogues, undergrounds, and their ilk, therefore, disturb the entire foundation of La Cosa Nostra. |
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| Reply by: maxwell at Oct 28, '07 13:31 | |
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| Look I just trying to protect you from being shot by the next rogue who ever it may be. I mean dont piss the rogues off you may end up being one of their targets. Just show your respect you can offer them and move on. You don't have to like them just dont be extremely evil to them. If they are rogue then I indeed no that they went rogue for a reason. Whether it be because of their emotions at the time or what someone may have done to them. | |
| Reply by: Justified at Oct 28, '07 13:39 | |
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| as we've just discussed in private, justified, the act of "rogue" in this world is more often than not accompanied with dishonesty. normally they lie about their reasoning for going rogue so as to still seem heroic in some peoples' eyes. that for me is the final straw in any respectability they could hope to attain. if any future rogues want to shoot me as a result, then i can't say you didn't warn me. by the end of their run, unless the rogue establishes him/herself as a legitimate crew as maxwell had stated, most rogues are normally found to be fraudulent in their intentions and i see no reason to cut them any slack. | |
| Reply by: CathalTheCleric at Oct 28, '07 13:47 | |
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You're so right Justified. If I ever were to go rogue, I wouldn't be arsed about the Leaders, I'd shoot everyone who insulted rogues. ... That'd be the whole site then. |
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| Reply by: Templar at Oct 28, '07 14:19 | |
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If you were a family head and your family was being attacked and you didn't have the power to overcome your attackers. Would you then condone those within that family going rogue in order to defend their leader (for the HQ boost)? I know it was said earlier that not a single rogue has any honourable intentions. But surely those who wish to fight to the death to defend their leader and there family can be deemed as being honourable? Or are they not classed as "rogue" as such. |
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| Reply by: DrRichardKimble at Oct 28, '07 14:27 | |
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I've said it before, and I've said it in the past. (Gotta love Ron Atkinson) If you are in a war, and your leader auths you for the HQ boost, fair enough, provided you are in the same city as your Crewleader, and that if you and your Crewleader win the war then you either disband, or request formal permission from the remaining Leaders to stay bold. That's my take anyway. |
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| Reply by: Templar at Oct 28, '07 14:29 | |
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