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| What is a Made Man to do? | Started by: Mongo on Apr 16, '09 09:37 |
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Mongo walks out before the large group of businessmen. He sees some important faces and gets a bit nervous. He fidgets a bit, then steps up and speaks. High_SocWinter_Hill, my boss, was killed last night. Traditionally, this would be an act of war against his family, however, after an appearance by the Philly Godfather, the members of his family are to be protected, until they find a new family. However, how can someone like me do that? How can I, a Made Man, just jump ship as soon as the captain goes down? I have no resentment for anyone involved in this situation, but it seems a bit disloyal to leave within hours of your boss's death. Why not continue the family? Why do we just give up? High_SocWinter_Hill promoted me to made man. He entrusted me with the coveted rank of the "inner family". Yet, those in his family promoted even higher have just jumped onto the first family available because they didn't want to get shot. Why is this? Isn't it a little sad that we go from loyalty to self-preservation as soon as something bad happens? Now, despite everything I've said here, after a conversation with GodFather Lionheart, I am joining Giovanni, a separate subsidiary of JimmyTheLionHeart's operations. But, I'd like anyone who has had the honor of being a made man think about what I've said here. What would you do? Mongo steps down, and waits for a response. |
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| When you are given your pin, you take a blood oath of loyalty to that family. The only way out is in a pine box. That's it. Nothing really more to discuss. | |
| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 16, '09 09:43 | |
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High Soc was my captain in New Orleans. Now if we look at this they Yes there closest tie was to High Soc as he was the boss who made sure they kept to there business and worked to make the family money as well as bring respect to our families. Now I could have if needed offered a full slaughtering of his members. I did not do this because in the grand scheme of things these men all worked for me through High Soc. Think of it as a supervisor at a plant. If he gets sacked the boss replaces him or places people beneath another supervisor. I chose the road of keeping the people employed rather then sacking them with the leader. |
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| Reply by: JimmyTheLionHeart at Apr 16, '09 09:46 | |
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| It would be a better game design when the boss is killed the second in command takes over instead on the family disbanding | |
| Reply by: Leone at Apr 16, '09 09:53 | |
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If a Boss needs to die, so does his second in command. Point moot. Jimmy, I think your analogy only applies in the situation where someone is a true Captain. I'm having a hard time distinguishing between Captains and Bosses around here. Their functions seem identical. Do the Captains pay tribute to the Boss? If not, they are Bosses, not Captains. A Godfather, as we use the term, is a Capo di tutti Capi. The way the mafia views that position, if they recognize it at all, is not as a Boss of all families, but rather as a Boss of all Bosses. There is a subtle difference. The Capo di tutti Capi presides over the other families in the city during Commission meetings. He might settle differences between families in the city. The families, however, are still autonomous and the members of the individual families are still primarily loyal to their Boss. To use Carlo Gambino as an example, he distributed the rackets among the New York crime families. It was a decision to settle differences between the families. He did not, however, act as a Boss of the other families, and the members of the other four families answered only to their immediate Bosses. /tangent |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 16, '09 10:06 | |
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Emoretti steps out to give his opinion today's topic. "When your leader dies, you die with him, when he has promoted you to the rank of Made Man, you become part of the inner family, you are one with the family and you should go down with him in the art of a war, an attack or similar circumstances. If your leader dies through a mistake, illness, natural death or decides he doesn't want to be in this part of the world anymore, then it is up to society and yourself what your options are. In your case Mongo, your leader the late High_Soc was your leader but he was also Jimmy's captain. As far as I am aware, you were part of High_Soc's family but you are also part of Jimmy's family. Jimmy being Godfather of the fine city of Philly and the one in charge of your entire family has given you an option to continue under his overall reign. What you do with this you will, in the end you always have a choice but in terms of what "the right thing to do" would be, I believe the above option should be taken. That is all." Emoretti walks off to continue his daily routine. |
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| Reply by: Emoretti at Apr 16, '09 10:09 | |
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High_Soc was a card carrying member, The Winter Hill Gang La Cosa Nostra - N'Orleans La Famiglia di Giaquinto |
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| Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at Apr 16, '09 11:29 | |
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| I think those who do jump ship at a rank of Made or above should be demoted and no longer have a Made status. One leaders judgement on a character could be a serious error on their part, which in due time other leaders may pay for. | |
| Reply by: Scully at Apr 16, '09 16:26 | |
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Depending on the issue at hand? This is a very difficult position to take. But as a person on the inside of my families inner workings I feel I would have no choice but to ask for a demotion and work back to the level of trust in my new family, OR I would ask to be shot as a possible liability. Even if I didn't have the urge or where withal to be a rogue or to betray my family, I think remaining at a high rank in a new family would be dishonorable. This is however, my own choice and not one I would expect anyone else to make. |
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| Reply by: KittieCapone at Apr 16, '09 16:34 | |
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I think that those who achieved made man and above with High_SocWinter_Hill should be considered a threat. After all these are the people who High_Soc trusted enough to bring them into his inner circle, so their ultimately loyalty should be to him. Since High_Soc's death was an act of agression and not an accident these people should be considered dangerous at their current rank. When they join a new family they should be demoted to wise guy, after all they will not have built up the trust needed to be a member of another families inner circle. They should be working twice as hard for their new family to prove that they are loyal and can be trusted to not shaft their new boss a few weeks down the line. |
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| Reply by: Deviant at Apr 16, '09 17:13 | |
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| The only problem with the demotion theory is that someone cannot be "un-made". Once you are a mademan, that's it. You do not lose the honor. It's for life. Of course, things are a little different around here, but perhaps that aspect should be discussed with the powers that be. | |
| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 16, '09 17:17 | |
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| Im not one for disagreeing with anyone theses days(bad things seem to happen to those who do) but i agree with what has previously been said, that the honor of being made seems to have become lessened to what it used to be. Made used to mean being within the family's inner circle. Maybe this is why everyone is spared regardless of what position they have achieved within a family. It was always the practice that when a family head was taken down that everyone made and above was taken out as a threat as their loyalty was, without question, to their family leader. Whilst im not arguing that this practice of sparing everyone is necessarily bad, it would, however, seem prudent to remove everyone who has clearly given their loyalty to their family head. | |
| Reply by: TheBabyfacedAssasin at Apr 16, '09 17:56 | |
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ok so this is more a suggestion than a comment and someone may have already written it but im tired and an not going to read everyones replies, could we not have something coded in to the game so that if the CL is shot then the RHM is made the CL if he is dead then the LHM takes over and if all three have their brains splattered against the wall then highest ranked is made CL ?? thoughts ? and once again apologies if you have said this and if you would like me to move it to the suggestion thread then please ask me n get this reply wacked. many thanks for your time |
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| Reply by: Artios at Apr 16, '09 20:12 | |
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Well, Deviant - it's a good thing you thoughts arent policy isnt it. Being invited in the higher echelongs of Our Thing, it's a thing of honor - CANNOT ever be stripped away, save death. |
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| Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at Apr 16, '09 20:46 | |
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Artios, if you can't be bothered to listen what everybody is saying, what makes you think you should try to get us to listen to you. Me for one... I will not be paying attention to you if you can't be bothered to listen to other people. About the topic at hand... A mistake from a CL shouldn't necessarily reflect bad on ALL the crew. I think the loyalty should come into play depending on the circumstances surrounding the CL's death. If the CL got too cocky and power hungry, or is in a power trip, or is getting senile and forgets his place and pisses off a GF or a stronger CL, it shouldn't be held against a soldier that proved his loyalty to that CL when he was too young to see that CL's true colors. I agree with the move that was made, the whole crew was redistributed and should stay in the same city. I would agree with having that mobster under *serious* scrutiny to make sure that he will be loyal to the new head, but I don't think he deserves to die. And I apologize for not being able to make my next point without suffering from OOCitis, but when someone gets demoted, the points are taken away, so a Boss may have Don points, but all that will be lost with a demotion. Again, I think unfair to the people that do not partake in the CL's mistake. |
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| Reply by: Adrian at Apr 16, '09 22:01 | |
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First of all, what does fairness have to do with anything? That concept has no place here. The words "fair" or "unfair" should never even leave our lips. There is no place in the mafia that it can be applied. Secondly, a family should follow their Boss, whether he is right or wrong. It is antithetical to the concept of "family" for everyone to have their own agenda. If the Boss says the sky is green, well then the fucking sky is green. You should have thought about whether or not you could support his whims before taking the blood oath. I do not understand how you can put these two sentences together, Adrian: "A mistake from a CL shouldn't necessarily reflect bad on ALL the crew. I think the loyalty should come into play..." If loyalty comes into play, how can the family NOT support their Boss? I'm not saying everyone must be loyal at all times. There has certainly been many cases throughout mafia history of an Underboss having his Boss killed and taking over the reins. But if loyalty is at issue, then the family must surely support whatever decisions or actions are made by the Boss. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 16, '09 22:17 | |
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| When the boss is dead, where does the loyalty go though? Should you really have to sacrifice yourself after your boss is dead. I don't agree with RHM becoming the new leader as no one has authed him but the thing is - everyone knows loyalty does not stop at the commander. If the family leader dies then there is a responsibility towards the rest of the crew. | |
| Reply by: BestestFriend at Apr 17, '09 01:26 | |
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OK, replace "unfair" for "bad for business". JTLH loses a Don when High_Soc has to die, why should he lose whatever Consigs, Bosses, etc. that crew had as well? "You should have thought about whether or not you could support his whims before taking the blood oath." The problem is that I had NO room to think. I had to get myself into a crew in less than 48 hours. How can people be sure their leader is worth dying for? My point is that if a mobster works his ass off to get where he is, and his CL screws up and does something the rest of the crew doesn't believe in, then no matter how brilliant they are, they're dead because they couldn't foresee what their boss was going to do. |
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| Reply by: Adrian at Apr 17, '09 02:13 | |
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| But fella's we all gotta agree at the end of the day business is business regardless. | |
| Reply by: CrazyRoss at Apr 17, '09 06:44 | |
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Adrian i had just got in from work my mum had been taken into hospital and i had other things on my mind to be fair when i was writing this, as i said what i had to say was only a suggestion and if you didnt agree or did not think it should be there tell the admins to delete it and i will type up a hole thread and put it on the suggestions forum, Intsede you see fit to ruin me in the streets for all to see when a privet mail would have done. i have been in this situation and before my self and have died many a time for my family and there cause even if i did not agree. i am just saying that when a CL dies why does it have to be the end of the family, why can a worthy member that the Godfather sees fit take over the family so that it can continue. If the Presedent dies does America fall to its knees with all its citizens emigrating to other countries?? No they elect a new President and move on learning from the mistakes to make the USA a Better place to call home, it just makes things more realistic |
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| Reply by: Artios at Apr 17, '09 08:28 | |
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