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| Busting a Speech | Started by: Global on May 05, '09 13:05 |
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Personally I believe that we should share information, what is the harm in it? If I ask someone their drug prices and they decline to inform me in a polite manner, there is no skin of my nose. But if they reply back to me in a rude and half assed manner, there is skin of my nose, and thats when the mafia side comes into affect. We can all prosper, and if you want to make our life a bit more like a competition feel free to do so. And when it comes to coffee shops, if there is bad feelings and arguments in these establishments, which has caused this latest disaster then so be it, it is part and parcel of the life we chose |
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| Reply by: Leone at May 05, '09 15:17 | |
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Honestly I cannot see what the issue is with us all making money. That is not to say I give out drug prices left and right, but if you hit me at a time I am feeling generous chances are they'll be yours. However, I usually just tell the person to ask the coffeeshops. Why is this bad? Well, let me put some spin on it. Let's say I have a godfather in my city, and I am at home. Would it not be wise to tell people to come spend some time criming in my city? It helps my leader of leaders profit and gain. There is no losing side in a drug price share. Thus a friendly gesture to another family will only strengthen whatever bonds the families have. Alliances are a must. Straightens his tie. |
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| Reply by: ApolloJustice at May 05, '09 15:19 | |
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DorkRourke, you're welcome to talk about people's suits if you wish. But I'd like you to TRY and keep focused. Your response STILL lacks an answer for the central problem. Drug price sharing IS giving valuable information to other families for only the reason of "friendliness". If you don't mind, I'd like you to give it your best efforts to come up with something that answers that, rather than calling me a whiny bitch. By the way, very professional. Gumshoe, you bring up a good point. At the moment, there are no rival families, I suppose. Everyone is friends with everyone. Yay. Sanchez, you think that because I'm new, I'm stupid? Hicks, thank you. That's precisely what I'm going for. I'm somewhat sad that only a couple people can manage to find the core discussion topic within a small argument. |
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| Reply by: Global at May 05, '09 16:05 | |
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| Your welcome Global. | |
| Reply by: -Hicks- at May 05, '09 16:07 | |
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Sibilo listens to the point made and picks out a particular part from the original speaker. "Drug prices. People share them like they share the air. But, isn't it a bit disloyal to indirectly help OTHER families make money? Think about it." Actually, the air is something that can't be helped to be shared otherwise it might be a brilliant idea to restrict your enemies of it, now that would be stealth. In other news, I think this argument about drug prices is completely ridiculous. I believe the statement "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" comes into play here. Are we going to get to a situation where we can't play poker with members of other families in fear of helping them make money? Are we going to cut off people travelling into cities so they can't make their money there. I think we've already seen this plan fail and has otherwise been turned around so that the more people that enter the city, the more the city is making. Money makes the world go round, if helping someone I know, someone I've heard of or depending on my mood even someone I don't particularly like, gives them the opportunity to return the favour, I won't be complaining. In the end, yes we are in the mafia and yes "It's nor personal, it's just business" and this is exactly what this is, Business! He then walks away from the scene looking for some mug to get his drug prices. |
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| Reply by: Sibilo at May 05, '09 17:11 | |
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| I would give my opinion as asked, but all I've seen from this gentleman is heavy criticism to anybody who doesn't agree with him. And since I don't agree with him... good day, lads. | |
| Reply by: Adrian at May 05, '09 22:36 | |
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I think it's very funny that this is a point that actually needs to be argued. Global knows what he is talking about. The rest of you are fucking morons. Who is a rival family? Everyone, potentially. Perhaps if Global would have said "potential" rivals, he would have made his point more clear. Just because we are holding hands today does not mean we will not be cutting each other's throats tomorrow. Jimmy and Hypno were not "rivals" the day before they warred, either. A lot of this depends on how you define "rivals", too, but I don't want to analyze too deeply and make most of you burst a brain vessel. I'll just leave it at "you are all retarded and fail to understand core concepts of mafia business". The stupidest question brought forth here is "how can it hurt"? The stupidest statement is "it doesn't hurt anybody". Easy. You are helping another family to make money...a potential rival (see above if you need clarification). Money pays for bodyguards, helps purchase larger HQs, can be used to bribe, pay for information, and a host of other things that most of you are too dim to conjure in your pea-sized brains. I'll reduce this to a simple formula, for those of you who have trouble understanding big words: Money ---> Power So, you have the possibility that everyone who is not in your family is a potential rival. You have the fact that sharing drug prices helps potential rivals earn more money. You have the fact that ANYONE can be a threat at some point, and you might not see it coming. You have the fact that money equals power. Increased power means greater power over your family and more casualties, perhaps defeat, in the event of a war. What is wrong with it? Do the math. Of course, it would be much easier to point out that this is just not how the mafia works; that we work to benefit only our own families, but that argument has left people scratching their pointy heads for a long time now. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 06, '09 11:42 | |
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| To be fair though there is also the point most of us have contacts outside of our families where a 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' system isnt that detrimental or unrealistic, however, giving out drug prices to people you don't even know is wrong and I do agree with Global on that point. I think there might just be some anti-globalist, coffee shop bandwagon going on. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 06, '09 11:56 | |
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Fair enough, NBF, but I think what we are discussing here is the unfettered distribution of drug prices rather than the isolated incidents where you may have a close contact with someone outside the family. Having close contacts outside the family is another issue that I could give a nice rant on, but we will save that for another day. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 06, '09 12:00 | |
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Aah Butt_Ox, I wondered when you would arrive on the scene. I do believe a lot of what you have said is to back up Global's point and as I have already answered these with my own opinions, I'll let you read that and see what you think. I will pick up on one particular point though you have made. It's a short but simple one. "What is wrong with it? Do the math." Yes do the math indeed, you help someone outside your family with their drug prices, yes they make some money, buy a bodyguard, something that may go against you in any future war. However then they help you out, you make some money, buy yourself a bodyguard and something that may go against them. Now would you rather be in a position where you're making no money but neither are they or in a position where you make some money and so do they. I know what I'd rather have. Business between families needs to happen to allow business overall to flourish, if you refuse to do business with no-one outside your family, I can't see you making too much money and in the end you'll create more tension between families and more wars are likely to happen and war isn't good for anyone's business. Thank you. |
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| Reply by: Sibilo at May 06, '09 12:06 | |
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Now would you rather be in a position where you're making no money but neither are they or in a position where you make some money and so do they. A "false dilemma" is a logical fallacy where someone tries to point out a flaw in your argument by offering a set of alternatives (the dilemma) under the guise that they are the only two options available. My answer to your question is: Neither If someone is asking me for prices, they are using the wrong avenues. They should be relying on their family. If they do not have that resource, then they are probably going to miss out on the good deals. Yay! Good for me! I win, they lose. I have never needed to ask someone outside my family for drug prices, and I get by just fine. I do appreciate the fact that you at least have a theory behind your reasoning, even if it is an illogical one. Having an illogical theory is at least better than half of these cretins who have no theory at all. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 06, '09 12:12 | |
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Of course you are right, I was wrong to put that neither party would make no money and as sure as I am that you have made a fair bit of money through using only your family to rely on for information. I'm sure you have yourself missed out on a fair few deals by not being able to open up to other families for information. As a change to my point you picked out, would you rather keep business between families closed off by not being open about a few drug prices or would you rather make some more money, keep the heat between families at a low level and in the end open up avenues for possible alliances in face of a war. Rather have someone you can have next to you, not part of you but next to you to help you out or for them to be on the other side, just because you wouldn't give them a high cocaine price? |
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| Reply by: Sibilo at May 06, '09 12:18 | |
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Perhaps if this sort of activity were effective in making alliances and keeping low heat between families, then that could be a justifiable rationale for this activity. The truth is that the events that lead to war will never be nullified by a panorama of goodwill gestures. In theory, at least, war is used when there are no other alternatives. The decision to go to war will not be based on these goodwill gestures being present. The family that is self-sufficient will be the strongest under a pure system of competition. The family that needs to rely on outside resources will be weakest. So, if anyone is to be offended by the lack of outside help, it is the weak. Let them be offended all they want, in my opinion. If they want to grow strong and be someone I should be concerned about offending, they will have to get organized and become stronger. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 06, '09 12:24 | |
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| i dont think we are being to nice, because no one would die if we where to nice. I think and jhonny said you have timed this badly. | |
| Reply by: Mangler at May 06, '09 12:27 | |
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| It may just be me but as i am growing up on the streets of the seven cities i find that i am making friends everyday in the bars and coffee shops, when one of these friends ask me for my prices they oftern send me theres and many times we swap cities. in the time of war we are still friends but there are orders to follow and if that is to take the persons life you do it, no ifs no buts. then you go to he grave yard and pay your respects and try to find there son. In this world you need your friends just think about it | |
| Reply by: Chemical at May 06, '09 12:29 | |
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| All you've really said there is 'I make friends, you need friends, think about it.' | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 06, '09 12:34 | |
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Fair enough Butt_Ox, a few goodwill gestures towards people outside your family may not help you too much in the lead up to a war or with any events that could increase the chance of war. I will go back to my original point. Business is Business. I would rather be making more money in any situation I can even if it means that other families may make a few more dollars as well. My point was that I'd rather be able to do business with someone no matter who they are rather than limiting my own drug prices, creating a little hostility between myself and the other person, thus hostility between the two families if either of us are anyone. Chemical, I don't believe the idea of friends come into this, I may be involved with people outside my own family, so may of my father, my grandfather and all the way along the bloodline but I will never have been or will be friends with them. I deal with people outside my family for business and political reasons, not social, even a poker game would be more about the money than the event. NewBestFriend, Chemical may of made an ineffective point but at least he made a point, don't go shooting people's ideas down without giving reasons or your own, I believe what you said was, To be fair though there is also the point most of us have contacts outside of our families where a 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' system isnt that detrimental or unrealistic, however, giving out drug prices to people you don't even know is wrong and I do agree with Global on that point. I think there might just be some anti-globalist, coffee shop bandwagon going on. Giving out drug prices to people you don't even know isn't wrong, it allows you to open up links of communication with other people and gives you the option to do business with them in the future. You may not agree with this but this is my opinion, at least I gave one instead of shouting you down. If you had listened to Chemical, you would of followed his instructions "think about it" and actually thought about it, you may have given an opinion on his point like I have. Thank you. |
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| Reply by: Sibilo at May 06, '09 12:56 | |
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| Yeah I did actually 'think about it'. Which is really annoying to be honest because it made me look for a deeper meaning to the post when there wasn't one. Chemical didn't give an opinion that was possible to reply to without going over exactly the same arguments made earlier, Arguments that he seemingly didn't bother to read as he merely rehashed the same points that had been made earlier. That was why I 'shot down' his point. Another thing that is annoying is this idea you have that opinions are sacred, like its to be equated with a religious belief and so can't be argued with (which I dont agree with either by the way). Sometimes opinions are wrong and to say 'at least he has an opinion'in defence of a point is just intellectual cowardice. In some cases its better not to state your opinion as people won't have to waste their time reading something that is not up to scratch. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 06, '09 13:07 | |
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"Another thing that is annoying is this idea you have that opinions are sacred, like its to be equated with a religious belief and so can't be argued with" How am I supposed to believe you actually thought about Chemical's point when you say something like this? I clearly stated that you may not agree with what I said but it was my opinion. I did not say anything about my point not being able to be argued with, neither did I give off this impression. If you had been following the discussion, you would see that I had conceded to a couple of Butt_Ox's points earlier on, surely this would show that my ideas can be argued with and in fact, proved wrong. "In some cases its better not to state your opinion as people won't have to waste their time reading something that is not up to scratch." If anyone has an idea and a reasoning behind this idea, they should be able to state that idea no matter what. If you decide to waste your time by listening to it then surely that's your decision, what isn't your decision, is whether they waste their time by stating their opinion in the first place. Chemical's point may not of been completely reasoned and you may not have agreed with it but he didn't say much less than you did, so when you come up with a proper argument of your own, then go shooting people down if you really want to, or follow your own idea and don't waste your time. |
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| Reply by: Sibilo at May 06, '09 13:18 | |
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I'll demonstrate whats wrong with your opinion. Ok you're a mobster that makes a living buying and selling drugs. You're sitting in your office at home one day and you get an E Mail. Its coming from someone called, I dunno Miekal Corloan, the point is you've never heard of him and he definately isn't in your family. The message says 'Can you give me the list that contains all of the drug prices, by weight in your city.' He may or may not have included a list of his own. Do you choose choice A - give him the list or Choice B - Ignore the message. Considering the fact that even if he did include his list you probably have an hour until you next flight goes out and by then the prices have already changed anyway. If you're choice was B you're an idiot. |
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| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 06, '09 13:26 | |
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