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| The Debate Concerning DorkRourke's Untaggeds | Started by: ThomasRourke on May 24, '09 03:38 |
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An interesting thing happened earlier that I would like to speak about. A gangster from DorkRourke's family by the name of -rmijares- was killed despite being under the protecton of myself and other families. I was even so kind as to list an end date for the protection period so there would be no miscommunication. No sooner did Mr. -rmijares- get killed than my friend Premier informed me of a debate in the coffee shops sparked about killing members who do not wear their family tag to show their allegiance. The argument was made that while killing an unsponsored, tagless member may not be preferred, it is at least understandable. It was implied that if you do not wear a tag you do not deserve protection if your family falls. I can get on board with people wearing the family tag for the sake of it being easier, but I will not in anything that would indict them as being lower tier members to their leader. I'm going to put aside the fact that the coffee shop missed the point in that I ordered a writ of protection be dealt for the homeless members, one that I am willing to follow through with no matter the victim, big or small within New York's former criminal enterprise, and that this writ was not listened to. The matter, thankfully, was dealt with quickly by Mr. Timello. Not following the order of protection is disrespectful to me and my city, and thus it does not matter if they are not tagged because they are under my watchful eye. The issue I do want to focus on is the idea that those without physical notification of their allegiance should be dealt with more heavy-handedly than those that do in this instance. Now, I'm not going to speak names of anyone who was involved as there are certainly boundaries between the coffee shop and the Streets that need to be observed. I respect boundaries. However it got me wondering... My tight knit little family of misfits gathered together as refugees from war and unemployment don't even follow a crew name. Does that mean I am valued less for not assigning one? Or my people? Because they all make me proud, and that would certainly create a conflict of ideologies between myself and the people who spoke out in the cafe over yonder. By the logic presented in the coffee shop I would have to carry a crew tag to be considered a mobster worth consideration. I know there are times where families made up of those tagged and untagged get obliterated either way, but I am talking about when orders of protection are given with the circumstances of disobedience to that demand stated right below. This is just an honest debate, but if people who make up our bold suits and slanty hats decide that those without tags shouldn't be protected then I'd be more than happy to trust in their knowledge. However if an untimely accident were to befall them tonight, tomorrow, next week, whenever, then here is the list of those who would be unprotected and a potential victim solely based on the fact that they aren't carrying a crew tag:
* Indicate those in the families ranked Made Man and above Shocked that mobsters in high positions carry the belief that some of those people should die if their leader goes down? Me too. My track record shows that I put it all on the line more often than not to offer protection to people. When I do that, it is my family's safety I have to sacrifice, because say a Right Hand Man from Las Vegas family X shoots an untagged member I state openly that I am protecting, I approach Crewleader Y about it and demand the death of that person, he tells me to shove it and shoots ForkRourke between the eyes. I'm a powerful kind of guy, not invincible, I can surely be wounded if one of my dear family were to fall, so when I offer protection I do it knowing what can happen, but I do it anyway. I don't expect thanks, I don't ask for my services to be paid for, I do it because I want to. This is a debate though, and if any of you believe that people who fail to provide identification don't deserve to be protected then by all means step right up and state your case... You can then send a personal mail to those who aren't carrying I.D. in your families stating you don't think they are worth protecting. If, however, there is silence to this speech, then I am going to assume that you are convinced in my side of the debate and go back to my card game with Premier. |
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| It makes sense but then if you think about it, what is the point in being a card carrying member of a crew? Surely if your saying that the same protection applies to anyone regardless, then there is no reason for people to show pride in the crew that they belong to by giving themselves a tag. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 24, '09 03:46 | |
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Anyone who takes the time to earn for me, to be in my family, espically thoes members who have earned made man in my family. Have put fourth enough effort for me to die for them and them to die for me. If i were to fall i know my good friend Thomas would be there to take care of my family. Maybe next time a leader falls i wont be so deligent in finding ws, offering protection, taking time out of my day to ensure the oldest to the newest members are kept safe. New York has very high standards, hopefully some can keep up with us. Hopefully no accidents happen anytime soon Thomas, seeing as some think crewless members should just be gunned down like rabid animals. |
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| Reply by: Premier at May 24, '09 03:49 | |
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awesome! no one from my "Family" is listed!! Good job guys! And the associates that made list should be going IA soon! woohoo! although the $1588 they have collectively earned might make me change my mind... but probably not... |
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| Reply by: Odd at May 24, '09 03:54 | |
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Unfortunately, this isn't about what "perks" you can get by being a card-carrying member of a crew. If a leader in his or her life inspired another leader enough (whether it be through actions, business acquisitions or perhaps it was their mother's uncle's best friend) that after their death that leader puts not only their own necks, but the necks of their own family at risk to save those crewless people, than those boundaries should be respected. It's not about who's card carrying and who is not. If they were good enough to be in that family, and a leader decides they are good enough for protection, than that should be good enough for everyone else. I realize we are mobsters, but it's a matter of courtesy. I'm sure if the tables were turned, any of the leaders mentioned on this leaflet Godfather Thomas handed out would be asking for, or receiving, the same type of treatment. The only people who would be against such a protection policy are those leaders who are insecure in their inspirational abilities, and fear that their own families would not receive such a reprieve. They always say that you never find out what people truly think of you until after you are dead and buried. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at May 24, '09 03:56 | |
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| I don't hunt down members who have a recently deceased crewleader because I have neither the time or the inclination. However if this argument is followed to its logical conclusion then no one should be wearing a tag as they obviously now serve no purpose. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 24, '09 03:56 | |
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A very interesting topic indeed Godfather Thomas. My personal feeling towards this is that if a CL dies and his member's then become unsponsored, those without a family tag should be 'fair game.' If these people do have a tag then they are no longer protected. Having a tag shows people what family they belong to and identifies them when they become unsponspored. Carrying the family tag is an honor and people should be proud to carry whatever tag is relevant to them. A family tag is protection even when they become unsponsored, if they can not bother to carry it then why should we care for their well-being should their CL die? |
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| Reply by: Cruel at May 24, '09 03:57 | |
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If a crewleader is killed during a war, there's not much that can be said in the matter. People will die, card carrying or not, and no one really has the authority to say otherwise. But what if, tomorrow, your crew leader's gun blew up in his hand? He dies, through no fault of his own, and leaves every single one of you without shelter. Should you all just die? Not many would believe so. Should just the card-carrying members survive? Perhaps. However, when one of the highest ranking mobsters out there steps into the streets and issues a decree that no one, from the most loyal Consigliere to the lowliest of gangsters, is to be touched... who is anyone to disagree with that? Sure, maybe leaders these days are being "too inclusive" about who makes the cut for living and who doesn't for death. Yet if the person was in the family to begin with, they meant something to the leader. If they didn't, they wouldn't be there, am I right? |
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| Reply by: Marietta at May 24, '09 04:08 | |
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| Let's think about some of these people as people for a moment instead of targets. Some of them can be valuable members to a new crew. Should they die because they didn't join the longer lasting crew to begin with? Then we would miss whatever benefits they could give their new family. Some, high level, war criminals might need to die to avoid retribution, but many of the common infantry should be considered for protection. Who here has been homeless before? It's a horrible feeling! You don't know where your next meal is coming from. You don't know who's out to get you next. And, you have to sleep in a cardboard box shared with stray cats. Some are innocents needing a second chance, and deserve consideration. | |
| Reply by: Dr_Pickles at May 24, '09 04:14 | |
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| You're not wrong! I'm glad we can talk about this sensibly and heaven knows if Thomas Rourke decrees that survivors are to be protected I'm not going to disagree with that - a godfathers order trumps most conventions. However my point still stands, those who proudly wear a family tag should be more protected than those who don't, unless they're specifically protected by a godfather and then the result is obvious. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 24, '09 04:15 | |
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I have to agree with Cruel here on this one, My thing is, it takes what? 3-5 seconds to copy a tag and throw it in your profile. If you can't take 3-5 seconds out of your day to place a name in your profile then I am sorry but you are not worth being saved. If you are not proud enough to acknowledge the family you are in by Flying it's flag high in your profile then you do not deserve to be saved in the event your leader dies. Every person within your family should be honored to wear that tag as it is you who took them off the street and gave them shelter. I personally think a non tagged member of a fallen leaders family should be able to be shot. *shrugs* just my opinion. |
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| Reply by: AlfonsiTimello at May 24, '09 04:16 | |
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Obviously i meant to say ' If these people do NOT... |
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| Reply by: Cruel at May 24, '09 04:21 | |
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What is a crew tag? 3-4 words sometimes more? I know who is loyal in my crew through the work and actions they put in. I know who is loyal by the people who prove it. A crew tag proves nothing. Anyone can take the 3-4 seconds and put in a crew tag. By saying a crew tag means your 100% is the same as telling me, if anyone ever shoots at me from your crew, and they are tagged up it most mean you support it, because they are 100% loyal to you and your crew, so they must have gotten orders from you. Crew tags are words. Lolyalty is actions, proven to me over time. My members have to put in a lot of work to earn my trust. No one in my crew is just given their button, no one is given anything without earning it. I know my crew is loyal tag or not. If you want to run your crew on words, more power to you. I'll run my crew on actions and proven facts. I know if i fall or god foribd godfather Rourke fell our family's would be taken care of. Why?? Is it cuz i have omfgGodfAtherRourke in my profile, or because over time we have both shown each other lolyalty through actions, and we'd fight and die for each other. |
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| Reply by: Premier at May 24, '09 04:22 | |
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If we want to peel away all the layers and get down to facts, it's this: Family tags cannot stop a bullet. People in high places, like Godfather Thomas, or myself for that matter, can. I personally am a very all or nothing person. Either the entire family dies or the entire family survives. I'm not about to play God and hand select the chosen few from each torn family, bestowing upon them the gift of life. Perhaps this is a subject too close to my heart. If in my younger years a late Don by the name of Iris had not given me that second chance at life and my career, I would not be here today. Because of this, I'm a woman who firmly believes in second chances, a woman that believes every member of every organization is worth something. As I said before- if a soldato didn't mean something to the family, they would be either dead or with another family. Actions definitely speak louder than tags. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at May 24, '09 04:24 | |
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Dr.Jekyll walks up and decides to speak up Well Boss, What about are members? We have people in are family that don't even have are tag what should you do to them? I don't mean to be rude but you have always taught me to speak up. Sir, we must remember he was killed by a rouge and GodFather Rourke did have them under his protection. Now I do agree that you should have your family name in your profile to show which family you belong in. This is just really a touchy subject or I might just be a young capo learning new things Dr.Jekyll shrugs and stand beside his boss |
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| Reply by: Dr_Jekyll at May 24, '09 04:29 | |
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| But the thing is people cannot see your actions and loyalty and everything you've put in for your crew when your CL is dead. They can only see your tag and if you want to say that the tag now means nothing we're going to slowly move towards a system where unsponsored are killed unless the Godfather has decided to protect them. Not saying thats a bad thing but it is what will happen and then tags will be utterly meaningless. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 24, '09 04:31 | |
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| NewBestFriend, crew tags are meaningless, that's why we all fly flamboyant crew banners over our Headquarters to signify who belongs to who. Now that banner does fall with the death of a crewleader, but isn't it all just a little to a lot stupid to have the crew name labeled every which way on your person? A person is loyal as soon as they accept an invite, the banner is easy for everyone to see. | |
| Reply by: ThomasRourke at May 24, '09 04:35 | |
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Godfather Thomas has handed out a list of persons that will be under his protection.Most if not all of the leaders have stated their willingness to help in protecting these people.The name of the victim is on that list.Tag or with no tag,he should have been protected. The fact that the victim is now dead only means that there are still individuals who do either make an honest mistake of pulling the trigger on those who were listed on the protection list or who do disobey the order of their CL's not to harm those on the list. |
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| Reply by: ysis at May 24, '09 04:36 | |
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| Ok i'm glad thats clarified then. Crew tags are meaningless - thats no bad thing but it is good to know. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 24, '09 04:39 | |
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If you think about it, in a way crew tags are meaningless. As you all know, it was a Left Hand from my own city that rogued and killed DorkRourke yesterday, thus starting this entire turn of events. That man proudly carried the family tag- even as he bought out, killed a leader and died for his sins. Again, a perfect example of how actions speak louder than tags. It's not the tag that means something, it's the feeling, the loyalty and the family behind the tag that matter. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at May 24, '09 04:48 | |
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