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| Rank vs Position | Started by: Riddle on Jun 09, '09 09:27 |
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Riddle walks down the streets as he passes by an alley. Looking inside, he witnesses a Goomba shooting a thug. He shrugs and walks off towards an ice cream stand. While picking up a frozen dessert, two cars race by shooting at each as they disappear down the street. 'Humph' He thinks to himself. Walking further down the street, a boy who just snatched a purse bumps and causes Riddle to drop his ice cream cone. He just brushes off his shoulders then carries on. Everything seems normal enough but one thing has been puzzling him. He looks around for something to stand upon, finds a stack of wooden crates then climbs to the top. Using a handkerchief to wipe off any left over ice cream from his face, He prepares to address all respectfully. When I first came to this land, I was inexperienced at how to survive. By luck, I had some one mentor me to where I can firmly stand with my own two feet. He showed me the ropes. The ins and outs. I thank him. But I am not here to discuss that today. That's another day. I've known the rankings from the beginning. From the day you are taken in by a family, you are an associate until you reach the rank of Made Man. Thus making him a full fledged family member. Help me understand this, you can be Made Man rank and be RHM/LHM but still have people under the made man mark who are not full members of that family hold the same position. Don't you think this is out of the ordinary? Next we'll see an Earner hosting his own family. The bar is being pushed lower instead of being raised higher. To think, One making Made Man then see a Goomba take a high family position. I say this with the utmost respect to everybody. A man from below offers Riddle a glass of water which he accepts and drinks a few gulps then hands back the glass. Thank you for listening to me but It is too damn hot to be standing up here on these crates. I'm going for some more ice cream. Riddle hops down as he is waves for the ice cream man to come forward. |
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John went out from a grocery store with some grocery in his hand while the sun make him thirsty and open up a bottle of Dr.Pepper and drink it all, suddenly he notice a man giving a speech on the streets and realize that man is Riddle after listening him for a while John think you're right Mr.Riddle, not that I against my Leader decision but its really Odd seeing a thug that only came to our shore 20 minutes ago is a RHM and a Don is not even LHM? Thats strange if you ask me, I mean when a first bloodline in his/her family get a chance to shine and get the privilige to maybe start his/her own like Godfather Thomas did in NY? But then again I don't want to offend anyone here. So apologies me if I offend anyone. walks to the ice cream man and ask for vanila flavour |
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| Reply by: JohnAlviano at Jun 09, '09 10:37 | |
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I've always thought this was an interesting debate. I don't know that I've ever gotten involved in this debate, but I thought I'd chime in because it is something I've struggled with. I always preached that when I had the opportunity I wouldn't make a thug my RH. It just does seem odd that those who have spent so little time in this life of crime could possibly attain the position so important within the family. Now, you look at my RH and see she's a Made Man, and nobody questions. But the truth of the matter is she was RH when she was a thug, as her mother was RH before her. Why would I make a thug my RH? Because I trust her. I trust her more than anybody else in thie world. And that is simply by virtue of the fact that I trusted her mother. That's my bottom line. It's not a dig at my other crew members. It's just a personal choice that we all have to make. If you want to judge me because of it, feel free. I'm certainly looking forward to hearing more on this topic. And off topic slightly - it always annoys me when people say "No offense, but..." It usually goes on to something like "No offense, but you're stupid" or "No offense, but fuck you." So, just don't say it. If you have an opinion, speak your mind. If it offends people, so what. Back it up with facts, and be respectful and nobody will be upset, but when you stick something like "no offense, but..." then it just makes me think that you intended to make an offensive statement after that. |
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| Reply by: Brick_Pollitt at Jun 09, '09 11:24 | |
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*listening to the man as he leans against the pole smoking a joint* *smiles* I think Godfather Thomas stated it best in another disagreement that took place a couple of days ago and I quote, "that is not a leader, that is a friend, and the two are vastly different." *puffs, exhaling while speaking* Friendships eliminate the chance for others to advance, simply because, the same groups of people like to have a hand in power. No better way to do that than make your friend second in command. You die, guess what, you're a thug and second in command to your friend. It's a cycle that I've seen going on for over 6 to 7 years. Like me Riddle, you'll learn to live with it and just accept your position as the person standing on the outside of the inner circle. Tough part is that you want in, but the the FRIENDSHIPS won't allow that. *takes one last puff on his joint and tosses the roach* *heads up the alley* |
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| Reply by: JamaicanMob_Marley at Jun 09, '09 11:28 | |
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Thank you for the education Godfather Pollit, my father always liked the way you talk and now I know why. Yes I know RHM is the one that hold our trust the most, but in CosaNostra until he/she reach the rank Made he/she is nobody. I know you trust their parent,but in this life they just freshmeat that just come to our shore following their parent footsteps to join us in this life so until he/she get the privilige of being Made and be fully part of the family. Sorry if my english sucks, I don't speak english well |
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| Reply by: JohnAlviano at Jun 09, '09 11:33 | |
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Walking past the streets, she pauses to listen to Riddle give his speech. She stands aside and listens to everyone else speak before she gives her peace. I have to say I agree most with Godfather Pollitt. Trust would be slightly more important than rank. A leader could have a Don whom they do not trust as his or her RHM, or said leader could have an Earner whom they do trust. I, personally, would rather have the Earner whom I trust. Now, I want some ice cream too. She wanders over by the ice cream man. |
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| Reply by: Natalie_Marrie at Jun 09, '09 12:04 | |
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| I feel like this. There are just some people you know you can trust. Why I would let someone join and be a full member as thug or gansgter. Or even hold a high up postion in the family. Some people are not ment to hold responsible jobs, or hard jobs. These people usually have other talents or skills for the family in other ways. Just what I think. Not about rank, about trust and dedication to your leader. They have the final say anyways. If thats how they want to run things they can. In other areas in our thing, women don't usually run things, they handle other business. Not in our part of the world, we do what we want to as long as its approved by our higher ups. As you can tell, our higher ups in some instances are women. | |
| Reply by: Ceelo at Jun 09, '09 12:08 | |
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Try the Vanila Natalie,its awesome wink well Natalie lets say you reach Godmother and there's a Don in your family that you don't trust, if you don't trust him why you give him title Don or Consig in the first place? Damn, my ice cream is melting gonna run to buy some more |
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| Reply by: JohnAlviano at Jun 09, '09 12:11 | |
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That may be true Natalie, but if you have a Don whom you don't trust as much as a earner RHM, than that member should not be a Don. CL's control promotions. Or does it come down to how much money he can make for you and that's the only reason he has that rank? The Don that is. It's a double standard. Either you trust them or you don't, but don't give a false perception as if they are a important part of the family, when they will be pasted up for a top position by a thug or gangster, ow I mean friend. |
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| Reply by: JamaicanMob_Marley at Jun 09, '09 12:13 | |
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Here is my two cents. From what I have seen, new gangs form. As they form the leaders of those gangs will be of low rank bringing with them low ranking crew members. Thus having a Thug or Goomba as a RHM or what not. My personal opinion is no one should have a gang or crew until the appropriate level has been achieved. Made man or higher. As we all know, people have there friends join their crew and want to offer them a place next to them because they trust them. Now if we all were to role play this game the way it was intended, or at least the way I think it was, this low level crap would never happen. But the game is played the way it is being played. Bottom line from me is, who do you trust. Because the thought of lying in a pine wood box does not appeal to me. Tin |
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| Reply by: Tinman at Jun 09, '09 12:19 | |
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| position is over rank, definitely. CLs give people positions because they trust and respect them, not just because they are a high rank. A CL would not give a member of their family a position just because he is a high rank, A CL would give a member a position because he respects and trusts that person. Although it does cause problems at times, It is a thing called Respect (and trust) that get those low ranking members of crews positions within a family. | |
| Reply by: Anthony_C at Jun 09, '09 13:43 | |
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Ah there is always a bit of a quandry with most over why low rankers seem to get away with positions such as RHM/LHM subcrew leaders and the like. But really it's very simple. When you become a Family head you have a responsibility to your family to ensure that their protection is paramount. In doing so you place people who you have known can handle certain situations. In time yes people rank up within your walls and show themselves to have true value. But if something happens to your RHM or LHM you generally go with their off spring, as from when they were born they had been following in their parents footsteps, were groomed you might say to be able to carry out the same tasks their parents did. Yes it's hard to accept at times, yes you feel like your being passed over. But you need to realise this, While the Famliy Head is away teh RH or LH runs the show and for your benefit the family head needs to know that this person can handle anything that's thrown at them with the entire family in mind. |
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| Reply by: Dave_Klein at Jun 09, '09 14:15 | |
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stumbles into the conversation Well I have personal experience on both ends of this quandry, as I too once yelled at the top of my lungs against the Gangster RH... Now I am on the other side of the coin, being trusted to take the reigns when my leader is not around regardless of my rank... I think it is a tough decision to make, yes at times people may be held back in terms of "position" but one has to wonder why ? Perhaps they are not ready, maybe they do not have the time or in many cases perhaps they are on at the exact same time as their Boss. So it would be rather redundant for that person to be a RH. I can't answer for anyone else or even some of my previous bloodline BUT I can state for myself it is a struggle and a little bit of a humbling experience to have such responsibility at such a young age. I thank, appreciate and reward my Boss on a daily basis by giving everything I can to him. Even at the expense of my own experience and growth. Keep in mind, it makes it harder on us to move up as quickly in "rank" because we are answering more mails and questions than the general person.... To end the rant or speech I will say this, each Leader finds his own flow and for some families it works extremely well to have relatives populate that position. Where as in some leaders have found a way to really excel with constant turn over. |
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| Reply by: Voltar at Jun 09, '09 16:08 | |
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Godfather Pollitt essentially captured my thoughts, but I'd like to make them known nevertheless. A CL's RHM isn't about rank or power or money... it's the single person that they trust to do what's best for the family when they aren't there. Is it a perfect system? No. LHM, subcrew leaders... all these positions should perhaps have a prerequisite rank. But I do think RHM is a different story. |
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| Reply by: Kates at Jun 09, '09 17:57 | |
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Riddle, my dear friend, I see it like this, if you care to know. The Boss picks whoever they feel fit, whether from their level of experience or from their friend-status. To me its never made much sense to give someone that low a position, but then again what the hell do I know? We should wait until the person has hit MADE before giving them the opportunity to acquire that position because (in character) they have yet to be given a chance to prove themselves. I understand that they are the descendants of a close friend and all, but I believe its fairer for the rest of the crew whose wanted an opportunity and has worked their way up for the position. Don'tcha ya think? |
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| Reply by: Schizophrenic at Jun 09, '09 18:09 | |
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Trust is the key element here. I once argued like you that made men should have be rewarded with the status of RHM, but in the mean time, I have seen RHs sick with power and hungry for the blood of those closest to them who would destroy a family whilst their leader napped just to preserve their own position for a short period of time. My own father was killed by 'fucking clipper' weeks before the great Don war when Clipper had tricked his way into the position of right hand within my father's family's crew. That along with some other examples of dubious RH appointments has strengthened my view that only your most trusted colleagues can/should be appointed to this one position. There is room in every other position for deciding that it should be a made or above who gets preference, but as regards this one position, it can only be one of your most trusted confidantes. As Kates said previously, it may not be a perfect system...but it's the only one we've got. |
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| Reply by: Mac at Jun 10, '09 00:42 | |
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No offense but you all are great upstanding citizens that I hope to emulate someday. I hope my words haven't stepped on somebody's toes and I am still in good standing with everyone. Please forgive any offense I might have caused anybody. I am simply an ignorant and innocent newcomer to these shores. By the way, if Mitch or Scarlet Rose wants to get back in touch with me, that would be cool. Otherwise, see y'all! Best wishes! |
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| Reply by: redseth at Jun 10, '09 01:28 | |
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There is also the fact that in most cases, the LHM or RHM represent the leader himself, and we have seen many leaders taken down from something a RHM or even LHM said in the streets. If somebody has the rank of Consig. or Don, I'm sure they are trustworthy, but it takes a whole other level of trust to make somebody your RHM, and you know that the son or daughter of your former RHM will have the same qualities and skills the parent had. It's uncanny how genetic works that in our world, it's almost as they're the same person. |
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| Reply by: Adrian at Jun 10, '09 06:56 | |
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Even before hearing what everyone had to say, just by knowing what you were all talking about, I knew what I would have said out loud as my opinion. Godfather Pollitt, I would say has made my point. Associates that are appointed as RHMs or LHMs are either the Sons or Daughters of those the Leader of the family trust dearly. It is just as how our thing goes that by blood we are put into this world, and only by blood you shall leave. And as heirs to the bloodlines of our parents, we are obliged to be the best that we can be in this business as they were, even maybe surpassing them in their own right. And being appointed RHM or LHM at the young stages of your life as a mafiosi, is a sign of respect and responsibility that you, like your parents before you, would do your family good and keep that respect that the leader has given to your parents, and unto you. |
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| Reply by: JennaBambino at Jun 11, '09 10:49 | |
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"That's a very good point, John Alviano. To avoid being an echo, I agree with what Adrian has said. Sure, I trust my Dons, my Consigs, etc. But if I know the lower ranks bloodline and who they are and how they act, I trust them slightly more, I suppose. In other words, high ranking is nice, but trust is greater. I'll be sure to try that vanilla," Natalie says with a smile. |
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| Reply by: Natalie_Marrie at Jun 11, '09 11:30 | |
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