Butt Ox steps out into the streets wearing a giant sandwich board over his shoulders. The birds that usually swoop down from the sky to perch on his shoulders, and the children who normally run out from all the alleyways to gather around him with stars in their eyes, are dumbfounded by this sight.

The sandwich board reads:

"Do not pickpocket without permission. Do not shoot at me or my bodyguards, either. By the way, if you do pickpocket me, that's the same thing as saying I'm allowed to shoot you. I love Ruthie. No drug prices except for family. Rourke has been set free! Alfieri is my partner in crime".

Butt Ox stands still and looks around, observing all the pedestrians and woodland animals who are looking at him suspiciously...

No! I have not become one of "them"! I am merely trying to make a point by showing you all how stupid you look.

The Ox lifts a sledgehammer over his head and smashes the sign to bits. The children and animals breath a sigh of relief, for their beloved Ox is acting like himself once again...

Ok, so I will always love Ruthie. In fact, it is tattooed on my ass. And Rourke has, indeed, been set free. But what the fuck is wrong with you inbreds who wear these signs talking about getting permission to pickpocket you? What thief in his right mind is going to stalk some dumb-looking yuppie for an hour, and then right before he goes in for the swipe, stops and taps the victim on the shoulder...

"Ummm...excuse me sir...may I plz steal ur moniez?"

You should probably check into a new line of work, because you will not get very far with those methods as a thief. Worse yet...

Butt Ox motions towards another guy wearing a sandwich board on the sidewalk that has writings of death threats across the front. He walks over to the guy, blocking his path, and slaps him across the face.

Just who do you think you are? Are you going to shoot me if I pickpocket you? I doubt it. You can try, if you would like, but you will miss. I, on the other hand, will not.

Besides, what's with the paranoia? I know these streets are dangerous, but relax a little, sluggo! Do you see me walking around with a sign warning of the consequences for pickpocketing me? I should be more worried about it than anyone. I'm carrying all of Thomas Rourke's child support payments to the bank at the moment. The thing is, when you try to pickpocket someone, you never know what might happen. People don't walk around with signs across their backs unless they are advertising sandwiches. If you pickpocket me, I might laugh it off...

"Why you no good scoundrel!"

Makes a gesture, imitating grabbing someone in a headlock and giving them noogies...

Or, maybe I'm having a really bad day and I turn around and shoot you? Given my reputation for being a loose cannon, that might actually happen, unlike the several hundred fucksticks who currently advertise that empty threat on their sandwich boards.

Or maybe I will just ignore you.

The point is, when you try to rob someone, you never know what is going to happen. It's a risk you take each time you do it. So what's with the signs?

I'd like to make a point, you destroyed the bit of the sign saying we can't shoot your bodyguards. Does this mean we have free reign? 

Seems you completely missed the point of my speech. Everything you do is a gamble. Take a shot and see what happens.

I got the point sir, was just stating the obvious before some other poor schmuck got to it. I for one completely agree with your statements about people wearing signs in regards to Pick Pocketing.

I'm one to just steal away and disregard the persons wishes, it's the fucking mob, we are all crooked. Why people think others will respect their wishes is beyond me. 

I agree to both of you, I just put Pickpocket friendly in my profile so everybody now because most people don't. Well we are mobster we make our money not by honesty we take it from someone else by force if we need too. So I understand your speech very well Mr. Ox oowh like Mr. Ox said if I pick your pocket and you shot me, I'm going to ask my leader to do the same.

Point well taken Butt_Ox. When we first arrive in this world, we are taught. Be respectfull and ask first before pickpocketing. Then we move on, we get more experience and we get the hang of things. When I was younger, I absolutely wanted people to ask first, but now, hey...if I am careless enough to leave my money around and you get 5k, keep it. I'm just going to do the same thing to you, thats all. If people want to advertise, why not? It doesn't mean you have to listen to it.

I like the point you're making Butt_Ox but I won't take down my sign. Not that you asked me to, but just giving a little heads up isn't too much to ask. Also if it is a gamble then people getting shot over it shouldn't be a big surprise. I believe most mafiosi that walk the streets are semi literate. If you can't read my sandwich board there are two different punishments. $100,000 or target practice on that mafiosi.

I haven't had any problems yet with this except that rat Sherlock continues to stealth me arse. People just need to understand that there are those people out there that aren't afraid to get their hands dirty if able to.

My only one problem ever is the. "Oh I didn't see what your profile said, I'm sorry!" It questions my intelligence and really bothers me when they only forced into apologizing by their family leader. If I wanted an apology I would put that on my sandwich board instead.

This whole situation is just another big teeter toter argument. One side says things the other side then says things. It comes down to the family leaders for most of us. If I don't get authed by the mafiosos leader to pop him, then the $100,000 comes into play. It's just a big cluster fuck in a way. That's why I try to avoid the pickpocket scene.

Kung laughs

Pickpocketing is completely harmless. You will not die. You will not get AIDs. At the most you'll lose $5,000, and, unless your a terrible monster, that's chump change.

I see absolutely no point whatsoever with saying "I want 100K" or "I'll shoot you if you stick your hands in my pockets." Honestly, its just stupid.

I Agree with Butt_Ox 100% on this one, and I encourage everyone to be Pickpocket friendly Mafioso.

Tips hat

Good day.

Lights a cigarette as he walks away from the gathering, stopping to pat a bunny on the head.

Harmless or not if someone tells you to leave them be do you go ahead and keep annoying them? No. You can say my methods are stupid but it works for me. If they don't want to be shot or hand over $100,000 then they could drop a mail. It's like shooting a -48 on the minute he turns but not the second. You have a certain second where the -48 will disappear but he won't turn red or blue in the obits on the minute.

So if someone shoots a gangster and he has the -48 but no color does that make it right? No. It's not really that hard to read and stick to someone's wishes.

I disagree with the comparison to the -48 hour rule. That is more of a matter of respect for the young. Its been around for ages, since my bloodline first started on these shores many years ago. there is no rule that says you cant pickpocket someone.

But I think you've misunderstood me. Just because I dont like people who wear signs like that does not mean I will ignore their wishes. WHat they ask is what they ask, I may disagree, but I respect their decision.

The point is, when you try to rob someone, you never know what is going to happen. It's a risk you take each time you do it. So what's with the signs?

Good point Don Ox, but like Miss Lana said that when we first arrive in this world, we are taught to be respectful and ask first before pickpocketing, so the result is many people will asking first before they want to pickpocketing someone. I never consider pickpocketing as an attack, so i put "PP Friendly, no need to ask and don't return the money" is to prevent people to ask me about pickpocketing and i don't want to start some little war because of 5k.

The signs people wear at the moment are frankly laughable.

Considering how quickly some people will jump down other's throats (not in the Rourke sense) over trivial mistaken references in street speeches, I find it then highly hypocritical for them to display their true love for some nobody in another family on their person. How seriously should the information someone displays be taken? Do the same pedantic idiots care so much that someone has "<3" or fruity colours all over themselves? Yet done in the streets this is fair game for 10 people to correct the same point without adding anything to it themselves. That disgusts me.

Moving on to this actual conversation, the "if you touch me, I'll kill you" statement has always been one I've had a gripe with. Unless you have the power to enforce your threat, kindly shut your mouth.

A handful of people can make this threat and mean it. That's because they have the influence and the authority to carry through with it and will not face repercussions. When I see Gangsters and Goombas sporting similar sentiments, it offends me.

Why would I display the consequences for pickpocketing me to you? As Butt_Ox says, it is a gamble. You're trying to rob my hard earned cash. Maybe I'll shrug my shoulders and think "I should have been more careful" or maybe I was using that $5,000 to bribe the police to look the other way and you've just cost me my property. In that circumstance you've cost me considerably more than the $5,000 you've actually stolen. Is it then a harmless joke? No, I would likely be furious.

We can pretty much guess the consequences for some actions here, but others, like pickpocketing, you should be gambling. If your potential target is far more powerful and has far more influence than you do, then you could be in hot water. Alternatively if the would-be thief is far more powerful than you, might be best to draw a line under the incident and move on.

To emphasise this, I will use what you've stated as your response Absolut. There is just no way, if Butt_Ox took it upon himself to pickpocket you that you could demand his head. You would probably be laughed out of the room. I would also like to see you attempt to squeeze $100,000 out of him. What would you do then, when he said no? You could take a shot at him, miss and die. You could stamp your feet and kick up a fuss and maybe anger them enough into shooting you. But in terms of compensation? You would be lucky to get your $5,000 back if he wasn't of a mind to give it to you. Why? His power and influence far exceeds yours. This isn't meant as a slight to you, just a presentation of facts.

This would make the sign you wear redundant and to be honest, upsetting you would likely pose him few problems.

~T~

This is a pet hate of mine too. As stated, there are probably a handful of people who can get away with this, and most of them probably don't bother.

Tallien, to take Butt_Ox is a bit of an extreme example, even those with power might have trouble "doing" Butt_Ox for PPing them, given his stature. Nevermind Butt_Ox, if any Made Man PPed Absolut, he might have trouble getting $100k out of them. Whether he then has free reign from his leader to go around shooting at anyone who PPs him, who knows, but I'd find it strange for him to have that authorisation.

Lets not get onto cities that are completely open to PP, such as Philly (" Pickpocketing is encouraged. And allowed. Upon entering Philly you have given consent for anyone to Pick your Pocket."). Oh, ok lets. Absolut, where do you stand on those? Do you take your sign down when in Philly?

Boaby puts on his sandwich board telling people he's not giving them drug prices, unless they're family...and wanders off. Wander in this case meaning serenely 'floating' as all Master Jedi do.

Nobody has trouble "doing" Butt_Ox, he's a goer.

~T~

Tallien it is true that I could probably never kill Butt_Ox and more than likely he wouldn't pay me. Yet he's never pickpocketed me. I agree that only so many people can enforce it. Through my ancestors journals there have been times where they've been allowed to shoot who did pickpocket them.

Everything goes back and fourth with their problems. I don't shoot with out authorization. My point is are people that stupid that they can't read what's in my profile? Is it that complicated? I find that if you're pickpocketing someone that doesn't want you to that you're just trying to piss them off and in this case trying to get shot.

The pickpocket friendly cities are for me to chose to fly to or not. If I do, I know the risk. If I'm in New Orleans though and someone tries to pickpocket me then I'm sure I'd be talking to their crew leader or right hand man. This problem usually doesn't occur though except at lower ranks.

My point is that if a made man is as ignorant to try to pickpocket me without my consent then he knows the repercussions. Just because I have my rules about my pockets, doesn't mean I'd disregard a leader and shoot their member without talking to them.

"The thing is, when you try to pickpocket someone, you never know what might happen."

To a degree. However, it's one of the most basic rules of the Mob that so much as touching a made guy without permission can lead to a punishment, death is the most common although this obviously is not always fitting for the crime. Therefore, I'd expect (certainly were I not made) for them to be some sort of repercussions were I to pickpocket a made man who did not explicitly give me the go ahead to do so, whether through their signs or communication.

My personal view on this is that if an unmade member pickpockets me without consent, I will lobby to my leader to do everything I possibly can to get them severely punished. I don't give a rat's arse about the money, so why bother? Well, because it's a complete insult to my station. I have worked hard and displayed my loyalty and dedication to my Boss to recieve the honour of being one of his made guys, and if some unconnected schmuck puts his hands all up in my shit like he's some kind of equal; well, that completely removes the importance of my rank. An issue I've very plainly put my opinions forth on recently.

For these reasons, when I see a made guy holding up such a sign, I generally don't get too agigtated about it. True, it gets on my tits that people plaster themselves with all sort of irrelevant, nonsensical and obvious statementsbut I can understand the people who hold them up in an effort to segregate themselves from the mere plebieans. Absolut is a good example here I feel. Personally, I think his sign is absolut-ely ridiculous, but I can understand his viewpoint completely. Presumably he's worked damn hard to ascend to Boss, and therefore he wants to reap the rewards; notably the ability to seperate himself from the chaff, as it were.

When I see an unmade member parading around such signs though, it really pisses me off. Who the fuck do you think you are? You're absolutely nothing, you don't make demands and inform people what you <em>will</em> do unless you have a shiny button on your suit lapel, that is, or at least should be, a fact of Mafia. Again, these trumped up little cunts swanning around above their station is another thing that is diminishing the potency of rank.

Essentially, it's a question of the power you wield and how much it can be exerted over those around you. If you wanted to be absolutely literal; the only four people who can truly claim to shoot those who pickpocket them are the Godfathers, as everyone else is subserviant to them. In reality though, I feel anyone above Made has a genuine right to feel aggrieved by an unwarranted pickpockting, and perfectly within their rights to pursue some sort of punishment for involved parties.

It isn't complicated. But the point is, you're not a leader. If someone chooses to ignore your statement, unless they are going against their Bosses wishes, you don't really have much recourse against them. Whilst I agree, as a Boss in Los Angeles, you have some standing in our world, but I wouldn't grant you a hit on one our Made Men over this. I wouldn't force them to compensate you for $100,000 either unless other factors came into play.

Personally, there isn't much you can do to force my hand on the issue if I choose not to. The fact that The Northern Lights require people to gain consent before pickpocketing, makes the matter more or less redundant anyway, but hopefully you see the point.

~T~

"Whilst I agree, as a Boss in Los Angeles, you have some standing in our world, but I wouldn't grant you a hit on one our Made Men over this."

I should've clarified here Tilde Tee Tilde, I meant that in the case of anyone below Made performing a pickpocket on Absolut as the example (or any Made Guy who has not given consent)  should be facing punishment. I realise that pickpocketing is not a severe offense but the bottom line is, whenever a dispute involving a Made Guy and a non Made Guy is brought up, the Made Guy's words should be considered legit and should carry more weight, no matter how wrong or right he is. One rule for the rich and another for the poor? Abso-fucking-lutely. Made Men and over are the people who die for their family, and should be reaping the rewards. Anything less are just an expendable workforce and unless they hold a considerable position in the crew structure, should be treated as such.

In a matter involving two made men, then some sort of meeting must be arranged and a middle ground must be reached, I think everyone could agree on that. However, this is not always the case. As we saw only too recently with the case of Valdemar (I'm sorry to bring this up again but it remains poignant and relevant), the word of Made Men seems to carry much less weight than it used to, and indeed should.

In fact, the lack of total diffrenation between Made Members and others is what has probably led to all these jumped up wallies and their signs in the first place.

Like I said, I don't see problems coming from made men normally. It's almost always at lower ranks these problems get encountered. Once you learn your way around these street's you learn it's easier to let certain things go and just not to cause unnecessary problems. My sign is a little ridiculous I can even admit to that, but I'll leave it up.

I just think if it can be a gamble for someone to pickpocket another mafioso then they should understand they might have someone put a bullet in their head. I mean $5,000 yes isn't much to a lot of us, but maybe it's more morale to some? If I caught someone in my house stealing my belongings they'd leave to go to the morgue and nowhere else.

If it's a gamble then actually make it a gamble instead of just "Oh get over it, it's $5,000."  This argument can go back and fourth but I believe those with the signs up really rather just be left alone for the most part. I don't think killing is needed over pickpocketing but when someone blatantly ignores your requests then it's disrespectful. Am I making atleast a little sense out of all this, I just feel like I'm going in a circle.

I respect every argument I just don't want my words misconstrued in anyway.

I hadn't heard you speak when I was giving my own, so I wasn't really addressing your points with my response.

I never said they would not be punished, I just said I wouldn't grant the hit to Absolut. Made Men are part of our family and as such matters like this would be dealt with in house. The example I've used is also of a Made Man, someone who has earned my respect and trust. This is a person of importance and value.

I agree with you below Made Man, that is a Wise Guy or under, are associates and earners for our organization and touching a Made Man is folly. Should they make trouble with a Boss in Los Angeles, they are definately going to face consequences for that. However, the consequences will be what we deem them to be, not a Boss from Los Angeles. Whilst he outranks the Wise Guy and obviously can bring the matter to our attention, these are Godfather Aurora's rules he has broken and her authority he yields to. Vicariously I am in a position as LHM to use this authority to mete out punishment to our associate as I see fit. 

~T~