What is your vision of it? How should we all be acting? Is there a certain way to carry yourself? Or is it entirely dependant upon the individual? Are bolds/hands above having their actions/words questioned?

I'll start this off by saying that I'm finding a lot of mobsters here seem to get their ideas of how our world should work from a 'fantasy world' (OOC: I took 5 minutes trying to think of a better way to say TV.. didn't really work I know). The idea that we all walk around in sharp suits, smokings big fat cigars, spending our ill gotten gains on whores, drink, drugs and The Lord knows what else! That every major decision is done behind closed doors and when a mob boss is walking down the street, everybody bows at their feet, agrees with everything they say and offers them gifts.

Incorrect in my opinion. 

This is an entirely different world with entirely different dynamics and personalities. Just look at the recent happenings with the death of a couple of LA'ers. It was a Consigliere that wasted his life and put his boss and family at risk for... well, fuck knows what by taking those shots. A CONSIGLIERE, supposedly one of the wisest heads around. If we do not question then this sort of stuff will become more frequent because there's no other way to vent emotions than resort to the gun.

This is why bolds, hands and those above Made should ALL be held accountable for their actions or their speech. If you fuck up, you should be questioned. Just because you made those dizzy heights doesn't mean you are untouchable or infallable, in fact I dare say you're more accountable and prone to mistakes than the lower ranked mobsters as more is to be expected of you. There are more tasks that require your attention so with the extended workload, mistakes are bound to happen, the key is how you react to those mistakes because God knows everyone makes them. It is those who can man up, admit it and learn from it that will succeed here.

Folk can't pretend this world is one they have read or dreamed about, it is not. There are people and personalities here that seek high standards and high standards comes with making mistakes and being questioned and then learning from them both.

If nobody questions then every mobster believes what they are doing/saying is correct. If they believe they are always doing the correct things then they never learn, instead they live in a fantasy world where every decision they make turns to gold until that fateful day when they make that last mistake and they're fitted with cement shoes without any prior warning because nobody could be arsed to teach them any other way than what they always believed to be correct.

In my ideal world, questions can be asked without fear of reprisal, it is not disrespectful to ask a question if it is worded without the "omfg you retard" type comments. If I got the chance to lead my own family, I would relish pitting my wits against some of the people we have here in an exchange of opinions. I'm pretty sure that even with how far back my bloodline stretches, I would learn a thing or two as well! If we go back to the streets being a place where you get shot for asking questions then a lot of people are going to die without ever realising they did something wrong and their son/daughter will go on to make the exact same errors their kin did.

Just my two pence.

Seraphyna had been whistling a merry tune that afternoon when she stumbled upon KevinOwens speaking. Abruptly stopping mid-whistle she decided to listen in. Next were a couple of other people that told their thoughts. She stood there momentarily before she began speaking.

Everyone makes some very interesting points.

She smiled politely before carrying on.

I like to think that we won't resort to times where it is unimaginable to question anyone. As you pointed out, there is so much more weight and accountability for those above Made Man.

Now as we all know I have come across a heated discussion not long ago on my daily walks. I do not think questioning anyone is disrespectful. The only time I could see any discussion being disrespectful is when we are belittling or swearing at each other. Swearing surely does not make you point any better and neither does trying to one up someone by using ancestors or belittling.

Not everyone will think along the same lines and I believe this can create ideas that can flourish in our community. At least more than just smiling and nodding will accomplish. Although not everyone will be able to hold their tongues or speak respectfully to everyone they should at the very least be held accountable for their actions.

Those holding the most important roles should be setting an example of how things should be done. Is attacking someone because you don't like what they say the new norm? If so, I can't say I would be surprised if we see fewer new voices adding to discussions. That is quite sad in my opinion. Everyone wants to see the streets flourish with discussions and creativity, but fear of possibly being accused of disrespect, or being attacked without cause could keep people away from it.

No one wants to be viewed as something they are not just because they use their voice. People seem to get criticized for speaking up and when they remain silent. Should we not find a medium that works?

Realizing that she had carried on for a little bit, Seraphyna added one last bit.

That's my two cents anyways. Voices can create ideas, discussions and ultimately tell good stories regardless of who they are or their past on these shores (whether they have one or not).

Well Kevin, I'm pretty sure most people think they are carrying themselves with dignity and respect and that they are ready to take responsibility for their mistakes, which is easy for them, because they think they never make mistakes anyway.

But we all make mistakes and at some point our flaws will be pointed out in public or in private. The ignorant ones don't learn and improve. They don't realize that slowly drops of annoyance are filling someone's bucket and once it overflows, action might be taken. This can be a demotion within a family, a rogue assassin strangling you in your shower-curtain or an organised crime family driving into your turf and killing every last one of your associates and members. This is true for all positions one can held in this world.

Assuming that everyone here wants to prosper, be rich, fill their stomachs and dance with their lovers at night, the attitude I'd recommend is an open-minded one. Be eager to learn. Don't accept other man's wisdom as truth, but question it in a rational manner. Counter with your arguments if you have any. Try to see it from the other man's perspective. Take into account how a certain attitude now might affect the future. Choose what is right, not what you assumed to be right. But in this all, do not betray who you are.

For example, a hand feeling so superior over his associates, pick-pocketing them, downtalking them, would be a bad attitude. You don't reap anything but negativity from such behavior. Investing positively in your associate would bring you far more benefits then any pleasure you might get out of making the hierarchical difference obvious.

Otherwise, in case of a discussion where the other party might offer the best arguments, not accepting them and starting to repeat or ridicule yourself by ignoring the obvious is pointless. Admitting you're wrong, but really improving with your newly obtained insight isn't a loss. If you become smarter, less ignorant, less green... you win, even if you lost a discussion.

So an open-minded, strategic approach that aims to progress is my advise. But if you are simply right about something, feel free to express that trough the right channels. If further interaction proves fruitless, seize the communication respectfully. If someone crosses the line with plain and uncalled for disrespect, prepare them a spot on the cemetery.

Why wouldn't you see JoeShmo the Consigliere belittling DonnyTheThug? And what does Omertà have to do with anything you cited?

Our Mafia, the one we operate within here, is and always has been about power. Somewhere along the line it's become convoluted and distorted into something else, some sort of social club where everyone needs to be polite, speak to each other like a bunch of aristocratic bards, blindly respecting everyone they encounter. I vomit at the thought.

Those who have power wield it however they choose until somebody stops them. They have no obligation to take anybody's incorrect opinions, and especially their feelings into any kind of consideration. That's the order of how things are done.

The people who truly get it are in the minority nowadays. Consider yourself in the majority Tommy.

TommyAngelo, I outrank you.  DooDooBrownJr's father outranked you, and had the same views as his son, so I'd advise you to manner up when talking to men like us.

Now, what are you saying, you human?

Regardless of how those in power choose to wield their power I am sure you can agree that the reaction to their actions is not in their hands.

So if they want to act like they can't do anything better than belittle those around them until someone gets tired of it and shoots them, then so be it.

I don't agree with that but that is your opinion.

I don't agree that everything should come down to shooting someone. Just because you're a part of this community doesn't automatically make it right to be a dick to people just because you can.

TommyAngelo, whilst I respect people who have no natural ability at something attempting to do that something, in this case, I think you should defer to the experts and simply stop, because you are to street speaking what Douglas Bader is to Olympic sprinting.

Seraphyna, yes, we are part of this community, and that is beautiful, but some things are wrong, aren't they?  Is this the dichotomy that you have previously spoken of?

This is a tough one. My vision is that this is a very serious place to be, but then at the same time I enjoy having some light-hearted fun, mostly at the expense of others but also with people who can handle a bit of fun too (As you know yourself).

In terms of my vision of the mob, if we take quite literally how it should be, this place would be very different. However, it's difficult to impose certain values and traditions because of the limitations we have on this world, the gods can only allow us to do so much. We're bound by the laws of physics and it makes it impossible to carry out certain acts.

I'm not sure what you mean when you're saying that people should be held accountable for their actions, as quite often they are. 

For example, just this morning a Consigliere was killed for shooting what would usually be saw as a couple of Joe Nobody's out in L.A. They had no affiliation to anyone, they were not connected in any way, yet the Consigliere was killed for it. Did he deserve to die? Probably. Should he have done? Questionable. As said previously, it's difficult to impose certain ideals. Even if we overlook the fact that a Made Man and above shouldn't really have to face repercussions for killing a couple of nobodies with no affiliation (Forgive me, my dear DooDoo), it wasn't as if Eredin could have given Salvatore a verbal bashing with a base ball bat across the knees as a punishment. So what is left? Demotion, death or donation I guess. Given that strict rules were put in place by the Don of Chicago over on OOC avenue that no outside interference was permitted, Salvatore had to die. So as you see, quite often people ARE held accountable and more often than not, this will lead them to their death as it tends to be the first reaction of a leader these days (at least unless you're a popular person).

As far as your point around questioning leaders and hands go, it's not something we seldom see either, why just yesterday you did this exact thing and nobody really batted an eyelid, and why should they? It was put across in a way which wasn't disrespectful, perhaps a little blunt sure, but not disrespectful. Questioning the upper structures is something that has always happened and it's something that I have absolute no problem with, I agree completely that a leader can be questioned if it is put across in a respectful way. However, I also agree completely that said leader can turn round and tell you to fuck off. They've made their bones, they can choose whether or not they want to respond and if they do, they can choose how they want to respond.

The high standards you speak of slipped long ago and it will be a hard slog to bring them back. The importance and respect that ranks deserve are no longer there, instead we are provided with people that hold minimal intelligence running around with the power to do a lot of damage. We have people who are content with staying in the shadows, offering very little to this community. We have people who think that doing the right thing is shooting a couple of wise guys in an open city to stop some kind of great oppression. We have leaders and hands who are content in their little bubbles, hoping the world around them will forget they exist while they build their guns and jail break. It's a fucking tragedy, man.

Rusty, pardon me but that is bullcrap

That's the point I'm making about the mafia.