DonPardo stands in the middle of the speech ready to deliver a speech.

I have to get this off my chest. I am new to this world. Just got off the boat a couple of weeks ago and have noticed that the "new blood" seems to think something is owed to them. I for one could not agree less. For all of us who are new remember respect in this thing of ours is earned not just given. Those at the top were not just given their titles they worked their way to the top. I respect everyone of our leaders and look to them for knowledge to help me progress in these streets. If they just gave everyone what they wanted what would this thing of ours become. Us "new blood" need to take it easy, if we want something we need to just go out and show the higher ups we diserve it and if and when we earn it we need to respect what we are given and continue to build on it. I have faith that if I do what's nessasary those that need to will take notice and then and only then will I gain respect.

*Htaed simply nods, knowing in his heart DonPardo is not talking about himself*

Sexy was standing around when he heard DonPardo give his speech. Then decided to speak up on the subject.

I was given my respect. When people saw me they looked at me and said "Damn you got to give that man respect. Sexy as he is walking around like that. Strutting along with no care once so ever. Hes just that damn sexy."

You can't argue with that,my friend.

Sexy smiled and strutted down the street back to the Riot castle.

Jeff steps forward and says,

When you got it, you got it.

The fact that respect is earned and not given, although true, is quite a difficult statement to make - if its brought up by either a boss or 'new blood' it seems self-serving (the boss would be basically just saying 'I am a boss and therefore worthy of respect' and the new blood would be saying 'i am giving respect, the others aren't therefore I am also worthy of respect.)

In fact I dont think its a statement that really needs to be made by anyone - a boss should make sure he has respect through his actions and the 'new blood' should have common sense enough to do the same.

Well, look at this.  Another wise guy who has a knack for the obvious.  Respect is earned not given.  Where have I seen that before?  Hmmm... 

But you're right.  Respect is earned not given.  Thanks for enlightening me.  And I should really leave these streets because I'm getting a little testy in my old age. 

In fact I dont think its a statement that really needs to be made by anyone

I agree, but for different reasons.  It's a statement that doesn't need to be made by anyone, because it's completely inaccurate.  Who in their right minds gives respect to anyone who hasn't earned it - do you?  No, well neither do I.  

Much more accurate would be 'Respect is earned, not demanded/taken/expected by default'.  The problematic issue is not that respect is conferred, i.e. given, when it isn't earned - this never happens.  The issue is that some new blood punk expects respect from a higher rank, simply because he is uneducated to this thing of ours, or doesn't understand how respect works.  Alternatively, he may demand respect by mailing you out of the blue rudely 'requiring' your drug prices.  This is demanding that you respect him enough not only to send him prices in the first place, but to put up with his rudeness.

The moral of the story is, apart from being a fallacious and widely ill-quoted phrase, it is not really addressing the key 'respect' issues that this thing of ours faces.  Much better would be

"I'll assume that you're a nobody lowlife punk until you make serious, concerted efforts to prove to me that I'm wrong".

Cato ends his rant, dusts himself off and heads for his favourite NO drinking establishment.

Michael steps up

I agree to Cato. Respect is earned it can't be damanded. It's only ear to the ones who do things right. I earn respect to people when I just go up and talk to them. I don't talk to the big guys cause they have better things to do. You proably get more respect for lower ranks then leaders or Capo's. But the most important to do is just talk to your crew. To be a made men, you have to make name of yourself. Why would they make you Made unless you talk to them.

Enough said

Michael steps down.

If you were following me, the point I was making is - by using the phrase 'respect is earned, not given' you yourself are demanding respect without earning it, not literally but semantically. whatever level gangster you are. The phrase isn't fallacious but it is ill quoted.

and I'm sorry but its not about respect being conferred, demanded, given or expected. We're talking about earned, which already encompasses all of these things. In this case I think you're missing the trees for the forest.

Tony was walking down the street when he heard this and stopped to put his two cents in......

"I made it to Made Man. Not becuase my Don gave it to me but because I earned it and I showed him I deserved it. I worked my ass off to get here. All the new guys need to learn respect and remember its meaning. You never disrespect people of high rank. You shouldnt disrespect anyone. But do not give respect to those who do not deserve it. So I agree with you 100%. They do need to earn respect. They especially need to show respect."

Tony walks away down the street to see what else is being ranted about and see if it is worth his breath to comment on it.

See I told you, every person who has to say this seems self serving.

"well is good to see someone knows how things work. I hope all the new arrivals heed these words this and understand. I agree with Bateman and Cato, in that this is a statement that it doesn't need to be made... well, it shouldn't need to be made anyway. But sadly, sometimes it does. I see these young gangsters all the time who think they know how things work or if they do, they don't care. But all is fair in our lives because in these streets, people get what is coming to them. I wish more thugs and gangsters would understand this. They think just because they have a gun it means they have power."

DonFish snickers

I dunno I think its more subtle than that, I think if people manage to (finally) learn, some tiny lesson for themselves like - respect is earned not given, always listen to your boss, butt-ox usually has good advice after the fact, don't talk back to those higher up than you etc etc then you should keep it to yourself not spray it around on the streets thinking that will make people think you're an intelligent player because instead it will help people understand exactly how far you've travelled in this business and usually that will be a lot less further than you think.

and I'm sorry but its not about respect being conferred, demanded, given or expected. We're talking about earned, which already encompasses all of these things. In this case I think you're missing the trees for the forest.

I think you slightly missed what I was trying to say. I agree that the moral is that respect must be earned. I introduced the issues of demanding/expecting because I think in the phrase "earned, not given" doesn't reflect our society well. The point is, respect is never given when it isn't earned anyway, not by any mafioso who knows what respect is.

To extrapolate: as the phrase is, it reads, in full; 1. "Respect is earned (by a mafioso), not (simply) given (to them by another mafioso)".

That's fine, it's true but it's an empty saying, since that never happens anyway. What does happen everyday on the street is new blood demanding/taking/expecting respect, so; 2. "Respect is earned (by mafiosi(, not (simply) demanded (by that same mafiosi). You will notice that in the second phrase, the only person doing anything is the mafioso seeking respect himself - he is to earn it and not expect it, whereas in the first phrase, there were two actors - the one earning respect and the one giving it. The second is a more accurate reflection of society, since the disrespectful mafiosi usually act autonomously, not even striking up a dialogue with any other mafiosi, and thus making it a demand of respect independent of any other mafioso. In summary, the problem of our society is not with made's giving respect where respect isn't due. This is what the phrase 'respect is earned not given would suggest'. The problem is that new blood are trying to take or expect/demand respect when it hasn't been earned. This is what the second phrase says. C

Sorry, appear to have had a bout of being unable to move my mouth properly, making more of my speech slanty than it should have been.

Astray smiles, then takes a bottle of aspirin out of her pocket and offers it to Cato

Maybe you're having a stroke. Or bout with Bell's Palsy.

She shakes her head a bit, then turns her attention to the speaker in the middle of the street

I'm finding that I need a little more concrete detail. For example, if, as you say, respect is earned, how is it earned? What are some of the specific things we can do that are worthy of respect?

is walking down the streets and hears lots of murmuring and a man standing their speaking intrigued he decideds to walk over.

i couldn't agree more  if you want respect you have to be clever, and have to be wise cant be a trigger happy gangster who thinks if i go out there and shoot someone and mouth of to a leader i will get respect.NO. you have to respect others give them respect keep yourself to yourself get up in the ranks donate be a good family member follow good morals then you will truly be respected.

after he said his think he walked of thinking about what he had just said

I'm fairly certain that I opened up a "Respect Shoppe" of some sort in the Streets a while ago. Since I don't seem to have my notes on hand, lets assume for all intents and purposes that I have.

I'm going to be selling respect for $1,000,000 apiece. For each unit of respect purchased from me, I will be happy to give any person of any rank or family the "respect" that they properly deserve per their payment to me.

The terms of the deal, however, will be unique to each transaction and completely subjective to your negotiation skills and the quantity of respect I have in stock. Users will be pleased to know that this respect is redeemable at all businesses in Detroit at no service charge, BUT I cannot be held responsible for any service charges applied to you by family heads in other cities.

Benefits of Rourke Respect:

1. A happy pat on the back when I see you on the Streets.

2. My immediate support of your ideas so long as the pose a potential business profit to myself or my family

3. A friendly handshake in the coffeeshops and over on OOC Avenue.

4. Witty insults of BrianRourke that I have stolen from Tallien

5. The opportunity of a lifetime: Accompanying me on my pickpocket mission across the States!

I would highly recommend this engaging in this rather lucrative business venture with myself. As our slogan proclaims: "There ain't no respect like Rourke Respect (Patent Pending), cuz Rourke Respect won't stop!"

Rourke grabs his coffee cup from the table next to him and sips at it violently:

Sip.

Well well what do we have here... Oh I see it people all with an opinion. DOH!

WillHayes, I am going to pick on you since you're the highest ranked with the most judgemental post of them all.
Not including Boss DonFish and Don Rourke since their posts weren't ridiculous.

Well, look at this. Another wise guy who has a knack for the obvious. Respect is earned not given. Where have I seen that before? Hmmm...
But you're right. Respect is earned not given. Thanks for enlightening me. And I should really leave these streets because I'm getting a little testy in my old age.
Reply by: WillHayes at Sep 22, '09 23:27

So basicly you're mocking my member for trying to become a Made Man? For trying to show his face in this world? For developping?
To be frank with you I am not even sure that was his intention here and if I am not sure, how can you be? Assumption based on what his rank being a Wise Guy?
If you would have read his post you would have read he's new to "this thing of ours". So let's assume you read what he said then it would only make sense he was not around to hear these previous speeches now was he?
Why do you think this matter is brought up for discussion so often? Because it's something people experience along the road...
I read your Wise Guy 101 thread and I am suprised you come here now so bluntly whilest I was under the impression your intentions were different.

Oh and for the rest of you that all felt like this shouldn't be discussed... go away, move along, go some place where you're comfortable. But this topic is going to be discussed. I think it's an excellent observation for someone fairly young and I 100% support him in bringing this up for discussion (in case that wasn't clear yet)
You don't need to be here listening to the men his speech, nobody is holding a gun to your head.