I've been strolling through these streets and am happy to see that there has actually been quite a bit of activity.  And there have been some interesting topics.  A lot of the topics seem to be related, and so this one will be no different.  Some of the topics I've stopped to listen to have made me think.  So, I thought I'd stand on my own corner, and bring my own topic to the table.  I thought I'd start this discussion and see what you all think.  

Yes, this topic will touch on those issues you've been talking about on those other corners: loyalty, honor, etc.  

So, I've heard a lot about people choosing life over loyalty, and one particular gentleman stopping to say that we should choose loyalty over life.  I will say I agree with that sentiment, but during that conversation I heard a comment from another - a young man said he would be loyal to his crewleader and work his ass off, but he expected his crewleader to work for him too.  

Aha!  Now, that's what I want to talk about.

These young civilians and thugs come to these shores.  Right away they, it seems, they begin the process of interviewing crewleaders to see which family they are going to join.  Yes, that's right.  I said - these young newcomers interview families to see which one they're going to join.  Do we think there's an issue there?  They don't have to prove themselves.  There are many out there lining up to hire them, no (or barely any) questions asked.  You (thugs) don't have to prove yourselves, crewleaders have to prove themselves.  And therefore, the relationship is skewed to begin with.  These thugs feel entitled, and may expect more than they're entitled to demand.  

So, thugs come on shore, they're set up immediately in a family, and most likely offered a significant amount of cash to begin their career within a family.  So, is that start up cash payment for their loyalty?  

At what point does this loyalty begin?  

So, now you're in a family and making money, which you send up to your crewleader.  Are you paying back a loan, or offering tribute, or paying taxes?  And what is your crewleader doing with this money?  Are the now gangsters who are earning this money expecting something for this money?  Protection?  Life?  Bodyguards?  What they see is their crewleader getting rich and fortified, while they get exhausted.   And, perhaps, they think back to the beginning of their lives when they were recruited by anybody and everybody and think....just maybe the grass is greener on the other side.  And there - a ship jumper is born.  Maybe?  

I don't know.  Just a thought on this bright sunny day.  

It just seems like these young folks are a bit entitled these days.  They have anybody and everybody fighting for them when they arrive on these shores, and so they don't have to work.  And so when the day comes when they actually do have to put in some work, or when the day comes when somebody expects them to do something...they want to know - what are you going to do for me?  

Shouldn't the question be - what can I do to serve you?

Forrest was leaning against a street lamp listening to Wade talk. This topic had really caught his interest and he had to think at considerable length before answering. 

I think everyone expects something of their crewleader, but these expectations vary on an individual basis. I don't think it would be right to assume that this is the general attitude of the people of our society. 

I think it is important for people to understand, and to have the ideas reinforced from when they first venture into this world of crime, that as an associate, your whole aim is to do the best that you can is to work your ass off and prove to your family that you are a valuable associate, in the hopes that they will one day open the books to you.

When you become Made, that is perhaps when you can 'expect' and I use that term lightly, to get something back from your crewleader. This is not to say that you do not have to work your ass of, probably at this point more than ever in fact.

Yet, on becoming made, you take an oath to serve your family loyally and to the best of your ability until the day you die. This oath, in my opinion is reciprocal. One of my ancestors crew leaders put it perfectly in my opinion, and it is a memory that has been passed on through my family, and something in my opinion that all leaders should aspire to. The crewleader in question told all the made men and above in his family, upon becoming made, that if he thought they were right in what they said or did, he would back them to the last and defend them with his life, should he need to. 

In my opinion that is the perfect attitude for a leader to have, it shows balls and respect for the people that you have formally inducted into the inner ranks of your family, and that respect and kind of loyalty should be reciprocated between members and leaders. 

As for you point about people thinking the grass is greener elsewhere, this is infact a very valid point. To those people, I will say this however..

You may think the grass is greener on the other side, you still have to mow it though. 

Feeling satisfied with his response and that he had imparted sufficient wisdom to those who may be listening to the ramblings of a drunk country boy, Forrest continued on his way to the nearest bar. 

You know, an ancestor of mine had something similar to say on this subject. Yet it was stronger worded and ended up ruffling a lot of feathers. You are completely right, these youngsters do have a sense of entitlement and self importance and it is wrong on so many levels. We as leaders have given up that power to these thugs and civilians but it is also down to us to remove that power and return it to the rightful place. Alas, the fact that the gods force our hand somewhat in the ways in which we recruit doesn't help this situation.

I have no real problem with thugs or civilians finding out a little more about the crews they are going to potentially join, but I do have a problem with anyone thinking they are going to get fed by a silver spoon once they are within my walls or comparing what they can get from me in comparison to other families around.

You recognise the problem so I will give you a couple of scenario's and tell me what you think.

Scenario 1 - The number of crew leaders is reduced and so the demand for crew members is also reduced. This leads to leaders being able to pick the best from what's available by interviewing potential candidates to fill the few spots they have within their family. These candidates may have to jump through certain hoops in order to receive an invite, maybe a donation or a relatively impressive and well thought out statement as to why they should join the family. For me, this would return the power and would lead people to having some passion in serving their leaders.

Scenario 2 - Leaders have smaller HQ's and no longer approach potential candidates at all and instead candidates must approach leaders. Again this would return the power since there's no huge demand for individual crews and leaders will want to fill their crew with quality over quantity. Eventually as the crew grows, the HQ may grow larger, particularly if it's an active family with quality members who are willing to serve well. Again for me this would bring some passion back into the idea of serving a leader.

While these scenario's are unlikely to be seen in our life time, it's possible that one day we may just see them if people are willing to change their ways.

The only thing I will comment on is the families. When you first arrive to these shores you do jobs and get contacted. However, not every family is the same. We all have rules that are pretty universal but as far as running them, not every single family is the same. So in this way I think it is important to speak to people before you choose a family to join.

So in a way it is an interview of sorts on both ends. I am sure many want to know what kind of person they are recruiting into their family, and the person wants to know a little bit about the family they may be interested in joining.

Don't get me wrong, to get started with the self-entitlement attitude is not a good idea. However, if you can respectfully have a conversation with various people before choosing a family, that is not a bad thing. Jumping to the first one may not be a good idea. We all know that once you join a family there are very few ways out of it. Most common way out is the body bag.

So when you harp on people for interviewing their potential leaders, I believe this to be wrong. It's merely that certain attitudes should not come out when speaking to potential leaders, and they probably shouldn't exist but they do. How people choose to deal with that attitude I am sure varies. You could just not grant them admittance into your family, or you may take them under your wing and teach them a better way.

Illusive steps out of the shadows, his eyes are squinted and it shows the level of seriousness of the words about to leave his mouth..

"Most people here have relatives who been in out line of work before..yet some choose to move on and change ways. 
Now, the word loyalty means nothing to me, it's meaning is and can only be show by actions. I am the silent type who observes..So I don't speak much but when I do, it's because I stand behind what I say and interpenetration is not negotiable..
It has been said that most of rules are similar or even copied.. well then I boldly dare to say.. If you can't even think for yourself.. what rank do you have... made man? And  when do you find your members or your CL to be loyal? When one needs it? Ego's aside, loyalty is a two way street... fuck, a highway.. I find that if someone doesn't take the effort to speak when spoken to, "it" does not deserve my efforts.

You mention "to serve you", I assume you meant that to be a recruit to leader question..
explain to me or all of us here for that matter.. what do you mean by that? Isn't all of our lives just an ego game?
For he who does not have ambition, would just walk along".

"Or doesn't he"?

 

Delvin nods and takes a drag of his cigarette before clearing his throat and speaking in a thick Irish accent.

"When someone asks you to join their family... They are offering you a chance in 'the life', and if you accept that opportunity then you owe this new life to them, therefor you are always in their debt. Work hard, make a name for yourself, make some money but never forget who you owe everything to. Because the people who gave you this life can just as easily take it away..."

You mention "to serve you", I assume you meant that to be a recruit to leader question..
explain to me or all of us here for that matter.. what do you mean by that? Isn't all of our lives just an ego game?
For he who does not have ambition, would just walk along".

"Or doesn't he"?

Illusive, it is most likely true what you say, a lot of rules are copied from older families passing them down but I'm not sure what that has to do with what we're talking here. In addition, if the rules make sense, why change them? It's not about not thinking for yourself, it's about being resourceful, I'm sure as a leader you can respect that.

I think what he meant by "serve you" is what can the crew member do to serve the crew leader, as opposed to it being the other way round as it has been for so long. 

Illusive, it is most likely true what you say, a lot of rules are copied from older families passing them down but I'm not sure what that has to do with what we're talking here. In addition, if the rules make sense, why change them? It's not about not thinking for yourself, it's about being resourceful, I'm sure as a leader you can respect that.

I think what he meant by "serve you" is what can the crew member do to serve the crew leader, as opposed to it being the other way round as it has been for so long. 

The thing that fuels this attitude is the abundance of crews that are recruiting. I'm positive that there wouldn't be a feeling of entitlement from these young thugs and the like if there wasn't much of a choice for them. Something along the lines of: If you're not going to put the work in to do my jobs or approach me, you'll be sleeping with the fishes soon enough. Of course this wouldn't be ideal at all and I don't say this should necessarily happen, but I do believe it would be a good remedy for this issue. As of now we have enough leaders who want to fill up their family, even resorting to contacting random bums on the streets. 

Illusive, I think you will find most rules are copied from older generations because they work. Most of us, if not all, have agreed that those rules are just and fair and it doesn't make much sense to differ from that set of rules. Of course there are leaders who put their own stamp on those rules, perhaps you are one of them? What would you like to see different from the commonly accepted set of rules that most leader use? I also feel we're talking off-topic here and I would love to hear your thoughts on the topic that the original speech presented to us. 

TTD listens to the conversation intently.  Being new to the shores and having to go through the process recently - He feels that he has something to add.  But - not before he chugs 4 bottles of mouthwash and picks up some littered cigarette butts to smoke.

"Life is short, legacies are long.  If I run around interviewing crew leaders about what they are going to do for me - to me that's already painting my family's legacy with a sense of entitlement.  The fact is that I will die eventually and my son will be painted with that stigma.  When I was a young thug on these shores, I did what research I could before I contacted any CL's, and messaged the one I selected.  Jobs were not performed.  I had the benefit of a couple generations of family journals to help me make my choice, and a few respected mobsters who are always willing to offer advice to a young lad.   Once the decision was made - I corresponded with the the family with the full intent of joining and being loyal to them.  I am thankful for the opportunity."

"Now - I know when I join a family I'm going to work my ass off for them, and I'm going to be loyal.  But honestly, I would fully expect that those words are worthless to a potential crew leader.  Like the fine gentleman Illusive said - words are nothing without actions."

TTD walks off to a nearby tree to relieve himself before staggering off to find his next drink.

Let's start with a short comment about WadeWilson mentioning people might feel left out as their crewleader becomes richer on their donations. I'd say there's a mess up from the crewleader or sponsors if that were to happen. I always mention to recruits and members that each donation to your crewleader is an investment in the family and therefor yourself. It's easy to explain the benefit of Forts and even while hiring bodyguards for others, it's not hard to point out that the safety of the uppers or hitters gives the other members an increased chance of survival and a longer-lasting career as well.

Moving towards the actual topic, I'd say that young thugs and gangsters aren't entitled to a lot, or anything other then basic humane respect. But I've found that when you give them attention, care and explanations they quickly become much more valuable within your operations. It's not just socialist bullshit, but it's enabling people to be better, making your family stronger and your business more profitable.

When aspiring gangsters approach you with an attitude that they're entitled to a beneficial treatment, I'd just ignore them. The more important someone thinks they are, the less attention I'm likely to give to them.

But when people approach you inquiring with an open mind about your family, to see if it's a good fit, I don't see any wrong in that. Some people are actually looking for a family which motivates them to grow on all kinds of aspects and not just in the donation-area. When my father joined with Senza in Chicago, he was entitled to nothing, but he got positive attention nonetheless. He suspected it would be like this, based on initial conversations with Senza before joining. The more my father felt valued by his upper structure, the more motivated he became to prove and improve that value. My father was a hard worker to begin with, but feeling valued only improved his worth. To me that approach from both parties makes complete sense, but I know there are families and organizations who don't work like that. An interview before joining could really help in determining whether you're just gonna be a money-making machine that's expandable or whether you can grow into a true family member based on what you have to offer.

Upon entering this world we got away from penpushing and other dull jobs, I find it reasonable that people are looking for a great working environment. Ofcourse they have to understand that there's nothing free in this world either and each person has to earn their way to the top. A misplaced attitude of entitlement is bad news and to be honest, I rarely seen top quality people have this attitude. So when I see people displaying this attitude it usually means the opposite of their supposed value is true.

Ok let me explain to you that what I have just said.

"Most people here have relatives who been in out line of work before..yet some choose to move on and change ways. Now, the word loyalty means nothing to me, it's meaning is and can only be show by actions".

As you will see and agree with, when I say most have  had relatives, that means that their motives have been set once before, It's not human like to change motive.Thus, they will have the same motive or ambition as they had before. They might have changed their minds about the person they used to see as their leader.. or boss.. but it doesn't change the mindset of that line.

I hope you understand that, and if not.. ask me about it.

Then we have..

 "I am the silent type who observes..So I don't speak much but when I do, it's because I stand behind what I say and interpenetration is not negotiable..It has been said that most of rules are similar or even copied.. well then I boldly dare to say.. If you can't even think for yourself"..

If a person is static in his believes.. he or she will obviously not change their opinion on themselves and their goals..But if you let them have their own insight on things, and then give them the opportunity to imply it, they eventually see what is wrong or what is not..That's what thinking for oneself means.. people can say all they want, they will do what they want without even having to mention it...Making or having someone follow your ways, is not about having rules that say so..It's bout being honest and truthful, You'd want people that have the same interest as you do rahter then people who just do your bidding..Interest matters..

Next up is,

"What rank do you have... made man? And  when do you find your members or your CL to be loyal? When one needs it? Ego's aside, 

loyalty is a two way street... fuck, a highway.. I find that if someone doesn't take the effort to speak when spoken to, "it" does not deserve my efforts".

Yes, we are all nothing but that. We've earned our place on the ship. Yes we may rule different stations, and be on different ships. Once that place is yours, you're nothing but part of the ship.Loyalty is where one sees benefits. And there is no such thing as the same benefits unless "you and another" make it so. Thus requires effort to move in the same direction. Anyone can knock on my door and choose to be able to get invited..people will say and do say many things.. actions matter, not words. 

"You mention "to serve you", I assume you meant that to be a recruit to leader question..explain to me or all of us here for that matter.. what do you mean by that? Isn't all of our lives just an ego game?For he who does not have ambition, would just walk along".    
"Or doesn't he"?

Then there is that part and the conclusion. There is no such thing as serving one, we all serve what we see is right, in following and in obeying. All that matters is ambition, if you can make it so both are the same. you're on the winning team.And those where my thoughts in that comment.

Appelsap wasn't sure what people where talking about now but he had a flyer in his hand with the question:

What can I do to serve you. what can you do for me? what is the right question. 

Appelsap wasn't even sure if he had writen this himself or he had gotten this flyer from someone. He really needed to watch out with those nights out with his cold friends. 

But just as he started to sober up Appelsap heard a man that looked like Illusive say " All that matters is ambition".  And he started thinking about that sentence. and after thinking about it he wanted to say something. so spoke out. 

"good man, may I first say you look a lot like Illusive a man i know. But i heard you say something about that all that matters is ambition. I must disagree with you on this part. I don't really have a good ambition I even talked with some friends of mine about the meaning of life.  the only reason we are on this world. We wheren't planning on becoming part of the biggest crew. We just liked to have fun in our crew and have fun in this world of ours."

As Appelsap was sobering up he looks at the man he was speaking to, and he realised that it really was illusive next to him. 

"And on this subject of what you where talking about. new thugs asking what the leaders do for them. but i think this is a good question they have the right to know what a leader does for his or her crew. He keeps them safe and in return a member should work and help the crew become stronger. But to become loyal i think a crew leader should deserve it, but also a new member should deserve the loyalty of the rest of the crew. it's a two way street if you are a good loyal member the leader will also be loyal to you."

Looking at the people around him he took out a new beer and opend it. 

"But I'm going back into this nice buzz i've been having for the last couple of days. And i'm going back to thinking about the meaning of life."

Appelsap drank his beer took a seat and lit his cigar.

Cato closes the book in his hand and places it under his arm. He pulls his glasses from his face and pockets them.

Self-interest. It's so causal and natural that it's almost uncomfortable to put a label on it. We may decry this instinct as something that pulls us from principles, loyalty, and the things we try to distill in our recruits, but the truth is it's something that can never be wholly suppressed. Until you show people that doing something harms them or their interests, they'll persist.

I think people are going to end up where they end up regardless of how "recruiting", "member whoring", or "interviews" are done. Doesn't matter if you make them do a few jobs first. Doesn't matter who approaches first. They're going to end up in a crew (or not, and die as an IA) and begin their career as a criminal. To bicker over how this process is handled is merely an argument of interests; some prefer to do recruiting and some would rather the young thugs do the work and approach the sponsors. There isn't an innately "good" way of doing it.

However, from the moment they've joined their crew, leadership must be present. And this, my friends, is why I began my unfortunately lengthy response to this question with a brief statement on self-interest. The great leaders, like Leonidas and his three hundred Spartans, are the ones who can bring his men to defy their self-interest and accomplish something. Not all leaders need to be legendary, nor do our members need to march to their death against the Persians to be of good character.

My point is, I see a duty on both the leader and the member. The leader has the responsibility of showing that following and supporting him is in their self-interest. The leader has the obligation of giving that member something worth being a part of; or nothing will overcome the selfish drive. And, in turn, the member must get on board and do his part if the CL has done his. Not every CL has the charisma to stir three hundred men to defend the Hot Gates, but they do have to give each of us something to go on. Otherwise, why not look out for myself? If I'm not persuaded otherwise, I don't see why my employment with my CL has to benefit the CL more than myself.

Listening to the others discuss their thoughts and feelings, Forrest felt that he had missed something very important from his earlier statement, he had been feeling very profound lately.

I know I have already made my thoughts clear on this issue but upon reflection, I feel that I and everybody else has missed, is knowledge.

Now don’t get me wrong, all mobsters aspire to have money and women, Bodyguards and a cannon. But one thing they really need, more than anything else in my mind, is knowledge. Knowledge is not a material good, it is not something that can be purchased with currency, but yet it is arguably more valuable than anything else in our society.

There are different kinds of knowledge of course, the knowledge of the physical workings of our lifestyle and how best to apply them to rise through the ranks. There is also social knowledge, to build connections, friendships and profitable business associations.  

All good leaders and upper structures should aim to empower their members, not by giving them money, or bodyguards or any of the other finer things in life. They should aspire to empower them through imparting the knowledge of how to do this themselves and be offered the help they need to achieve them. For that is the only way our society can truly progress and develop for the better.

Therefore, perhaps young  aspiring mobsters  should not be asking what their crewleaders or sponsors will give them, but rather what they can teach them.

Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he’ll eat for the rest of his life.

Forrest tips his hat before going on his way.

Listening to the others discuss their thoughts and feelings, Forrest felt that he had missed something very important from his earlier statement, he had been feeling very profound lately.

I know I have already made my thoughts clear on this issue but upon reflection, I feel that I and everybody else has missed, is knowledge.

Now don’t get me wrong, all mobsters aspire to have money and women, Bodyguards and a cannon. But one thing they really need, more than anything else in my mind, is knowledge. Knowledge is not a material good, it is not something that can be purchased with currency, but yet it is arguably more valuable than anything else in our society.

There are different kinds of knowledge of course, the knowledge of the physical workings of our lifestyle and how best to apply them to rise through the ranks. There is also social knowledge, to build connections, friendships and profitable business associations.  

All good leaders and upper structures should aim to empower their members, not by giving them money, or bodyguards or any of the other finer things in life. They should aspire to empower them through imparting the knowledge of how to do this themselves and be offered the help they need to achieve them. For that is the only way our society can truly progress and develop for the better.

Therefore, perhaps young  aspiring mobsters  should not be asking what their crewleaders or sponsors will give them, but rather what they can teach them.

Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he’ll eat for the rest of his life.

Forrest tips his hat before going on his way.

Very good topic.  I think things have changed over the years.  It used to be that as a new family member, or even a new gangster wandering the streets, it was expected of you to impress the leaders.  You had to explain yourself, give the leader a good reason to even invite you.  When you were in a family, you had to work hard to earn that promotion.  You didn't ask for money, you earned it. 

Now, I would have to agree with you, new gangsters expect things.  They are asking their leader or high ranks for money.  They get pissed off that their leader is not paying for their BG's and everything else.  They constantly ask for auth because they feel they should get it, not because they actually did something to deserve it.  Leaders are even having to impress new people to get them in the family, which is not how it should be.

Maybe its because newer gangsters don't know the rules or how things work.  Some people may see their leader as hoarding money, instead of actually using it to protect the family.  That has always been an issue, people don't understand how much it costs to keep the family protected.  If your leader has no protection, neither do you.  But on the other side of that, leaders should definitely repay some of that money as appreciate for the work that it done. 

It could be because some leaders and/or members have catered to new ones in the past, by giving them money or credits every time they ask.  I'm not saying don't help people, but there are those who take advantage.  You help them once, and they expect it to happen again and again.  I'm all for helping people, but I've always worked for what I have, never ask for anything, so I feel that anyone should be able to do the same. 

Whatever the reason, things are completely turned around from how they should be.  Leaders are working to please their members, when it should be the other way around.  Will this ever change?  Unfortunately I think we are stuck in this way of living, and I don't see it changing.

Now, I would have to agree with you, new gangsters expect things.  They are asking their leader or high ranks for money.  They get pissed off that their leader is not paying for their BG's and everything else.  They constantly ask for auth because they feel they should get it, not because they actually did something to deserve it.  Leaders are even having to impress new people to get them in the family, which is not how it should be.

I've never paid a single soul to join my family, nor have any asked. Not a single member of my family has asked me if they could 'go bold' in my district either because they know better. I've never gone out to impress someone to join, if someone doesn't show a keen interest in being under our protection then they won't be joining us.

I do believe the problem Hayley mentions exists, however in my opinion it all boils down to the quality of the recruiters. Have upper structures taught their sponsors what to look for in their members? Or has it been a case of 'Here's sponsorship abilites, go recruit!'? New mobsters sense of entitlement stems from sponsors that are too willing to send an invite out to someone who did a few jobs for their family and replied to their first mail with 'sure I'll join'.

I'll show you guys a copy of what is usually said when I first contact a potential family member, it may slightly deviate from time to time but this is the general jist of it. It also show the bit of analysis on my own part and the key areas of my recruitment drive.

KO passes around a clipboard with a sheet of paper attached it, it reads...

Hey there.

I see you have been doing some small jobs for us. Low pay and small rewards(1). If you're looking to join a family, the possibilities are endless here given we are a fresh district with just a few members(2).

All we ask is that you're as active as you can be and commit yourself to the family(3), that will in turn commit back to you(4). Bonds can only be made over time if the parties involved are willing to participate(5). We're not interested in mobsters who 'half-ass' it(6).

If our family sounds like something that would interest you, feel free to get back to me(7).

**Key

1, Show them recognition of their work, but how small those rewards are whilst outside the family.

2, Sell the family/district. We are a very fresh district so there are opportunities here.

3, What I want from them.

4, What they are guaranteed should they abide by (3).

5, We don't expect you to be friends with everyone here, but a true family is only created when the majority of people there participate. Whether that be to chat, coffeeshops, family competitions, the streets... it doesn't matter.

6, My 'disclaimer' here. When I get a 'yes I'll join' reply, I poiltely reply that the offer is no longer welcome as they didn't even bother to read or just didn't care that I asked them not to 'half-ass' it. I never offered them a home.

7, The offer is open to talk further, but still no promise of an invite.

So, as you can see... although I'm sure it's not completely without flaws it is very possible to turn the tables on potential members of the family and find out who is going to be worth it and who isn't. It may leave you a few members short for a while but the quality you bring in will attract others to your neck of the woods. Couple this with limiting the amount of members you allow to sponsor fresh mobsters and you have the makings of a solid recruitment package and avoid the majority of problems people have mentioned here.

Moving onto the loyalty side of this, as mentioned in my initial recruitment mail this can only be built over time. I don't expect undiluted loyalty from mobsters I've never spoken to instantly. However, a lot of my family already know that I will defend them as much as I possibly can without putting the lives of the rest of the family at risk. You can only gain loyalty from your members by being put into difficult situations and resolving them quickly, making sure your own family members get the better end of any sort of deal. 

I think most people find true loyalty when they are impressed by someone, hence why a lot of us are believers that the streets are vital to our society as this is the easiest and most public place to impress the rest of the world... or show them you're a complete asshat. It's not the 'be all and end all' of our world but if used correctly can be extremely significant in the kind of mobsters you end up with by your side.

Another policy I have is to set taxes to 0% and inform the family that they are not expected to tribute any sort of set amounts to me at all. I am have enough 'irons in the fire' to make enough money for myself. So... should they CHOOSE to donate, they can do with safe in the knowledge that it's going towards something family related. Whether that be to the forts, towards bodyguards for our stronger members to protect us, a cash boost so a hitter can get a DFP to help pay for his shooting expenses or just back out to the family in prize money for 'top earners' and competition winners.

To inspire loyalty, you have to do exactly that... INSPIRE.

KO looks are his watch and realises he's been rambling on for time... late for his next 'appointment', he tips his hat and hastily departs.

Thanks to everyone who has joined this discussion.  There have been some very good points brought up, and I would love to address all of them.  Right now, I'm going to address one or two because my mind is jumbled right now and I'm not thinking very well right now.  I do apologize if what I say doesn't make sense.  

This word - interview - keeps coming up.  I think it's a great word.  I used it in when I brought up this discussion.  But I've been thinking about it, and I want to have more discussion about it.  

To me, interview implies a two-way discussion.  And sometimes that is really not happening.  I would like to see there be more of a two way conversation.  I appreciate the fact that crews come out and tell young gangsters about their organizations.  I think, in return, they should demand that those young gangsters reciprocate.  It should not be too difficult to discuss yourself for a couple minutes.  

The typical interaction should not be:  

     "We are such and such crew from such and such city.  We are a large organization.   We are well fortified, and our leader will offer your protection, a job, and an environment where you can learn the ropes and grow in this business.  There will be opportunity for advancement.  Can I send you an invite?"

"yes"

I'm not saying that is typical - but it could get to be typical if things don't change.  

So, if we're going to use the word interview, let's make it more of an interview process.  

The second issue I want to discuss:  jobs.  I love that young thugs have the opportunity to do jobs for families.  And I have a question.  Is it those jobs that trigger the interaction between a crew and a young thug?  Should that be what triggers the interaction?  

I'd have to say no, those jobs give somewhat of a false impressions since they are there anyway..
People should actively look for a home, a crew somewhere they can evolve.. not the other way around.

People look out for jobs in legal lines of work.. why should that be any different in our line of work?