MS looks around as he plays Chess in the park with some of the neighborhood guys

So, I have seen a lot of "New" idea's being implanted in cities and heard a lot of people talk of loyalty and respect, omerta and that dreaded Rogue.
I personally don't believe there really is such a thing as a Rogue BUT could understand the label being applied for someone trying to grab that brass ring without first asking and or getting permission too. However to call someone who was previously Authed a Rogue simply because they no longer share their Authing powers agenda and strike out is a little farfetched. People will disagree and often times when ego is involved not be able to concede ones point to promote peace over violence.

Omerta I have shared my view on in others venues so I will not bore you with that, Respect is similar it is far too discussed and misunderstood. I will not really get into a long drawn out debate on it but my ideals of Respect have always stated it is subjective at best and taken way to out of context at worst.

Now here comes the biggie which actually leads to a lot of these Rogues in theory. It amazes me that people say "You should be loyal to the person who Authed you" Well why would by my question. In most cases these people are Authed saying "I would like to introduce you to my newest Boss" yet this Boss carries on a different family name and makes his or her OWN speech immediately following and even has their own rules etc. From the beginning they start to show the individuality and separate themselves from the herd. Of course there loyalty to the Authing power is secondary, they are now "Their Own Leader" NOT simply a boss of a neighborhood carrying on the same family name as their former Leader. Loyalty in this situation is clear and evident, they are loyal to their ideals and new family first all else second.

I guess sometimes if you follow people's behavior and patterns. Look at their general perception of themselves you can tell a lot. It should be of no surprise that Omerta is often thrown out the window in this world. Really it is almost impossible to honor it, however discretion can be invoked. Respect is kind of ethereal, what I find to be of the utmost respect others might find offensive and quite the opposite. I guess now lads nothing surprises me.

looks around and takes his next move while those in ear shot pounder the babbling fools thoughts.

First off what a shitty way to start your speech "Can't be arsed with a title. Just read please"

And you go on about how regardless of who authed the leader, they should show no loyalty to the person who authed them, so are you saying regardless that you are from philly you would turn on your Godmother if you felt the need?

First off, allow me to appologise for the ramblings of this former member.

Terrible start to a speech and the actual speech was no better at all.

My families loyalty lies with Don Straz, and to our godmother ScipitaRourke, period.

Smiles at those who can't read

First Prem, the title was a play on something discussed in coffee shops. Nothing more and although a little controversial not a crime in itself. Now what is a crime is your innability to read or lack there of to understand what you read... I at no point said I would turn on anyone. I beg you to find in that somewhere where I actually said anything about myself?
...
Exactly as I thought, not there.

Now Pip this is ashame, as you assumed grossly what my speech was about. New Orleans please, the issue at hand is much larger the Death Knights debacle. Look at all cities, 97 % of the families that have been "Authed" as boss's or capo's have different family vests than those that authed them. Your loyalty? That is a discussion not for here. Terrible Speech, it got your mute ass in the streets didn't it?

I think there has been a massive overreaction to this.

The title I had to do some research on, because at first I was admittedly all "what an idiot", but apparently it was in reference to a DivineLunacy Coffeeshop joke and was not intended to be taken seriously.

The content of this itself I think has been misinterpreted. He wasn't saying you should show no loyalty to the leader who authed you, just that this should be secondary to looking after the interests of your family. This can be evidenced throughout our history as being true and I think when push comes to shove the majority of HQ owners will look to the safety of their direct members before anything else.

I do not think the loyalties of anyone in particular was questioned.

~T~

Ah, I believe the intention was explained whilst I was thinking about my own response. Typical.

~T~

Raghnall - You are correct, at no point did you mention that you would turn on anyone. However, Godfather Premier merely asked if that was how you felt about things - he did not state that that was exactly how you felt or that you ever said you felt that way. So maybe you should actually listen to his response, as to me it seems that he was the one that did more listening than yourself?

Yes, this speech did get him to talk in the streets. He felt that he needed to stress that he was in fact loyal - seeing as your speech seemed to imply that most people are not loyal, or at least loyal until it suits them. I'm sure any leader would apologize for a members words or actions if they implied anything upon the leader, or were disrespectful to other leaders.

As for the shit speech - Yes, families might have some individuality about them. Yes, they might have different names or flares to them - and even different crew rules. But the fact that they can be individual and remain loyal to their Godfather/Godmother would suggest to me that they are in fact more loyal than you seem to think.

I bid you adieu.

V tips his hat, and carries on his way

nods to V

I first want to say I am sorry to Premier anger over a betrayal glossed my normal decorum. No my brother wasn't saying he would be disloyal, he was asserting it should not be a surprise that it happens and with some frequency.

The sad thing is whether the over all body of work my brother put in was shitty or not is kind of debatable. His points were not, although one can be individual and remain loyal it is a conflict of interest V. So when that person finally steps out on an issue the feel can not be conceded it shouldn't be a surprise and they shouldn't be considered Rogue.

Prem again I am sorry for such pitiful behavior towards your response.

*raises his shoulders and hands in a way showing no understanding of the actions that have taken place*

Looks like the speech was mainly about loyalty within the walls of a HQ.  As you can see that loyalty doesn't extend very far, being that a RHM is dead because a GF from another city disagreed with something he said.

Funny part is that it wasn't even the GM, who all this seemed to evolve around, that lead to the death.  May have been the best thing that could have happened for the former RHM.  At least he foud out who he was working with at the beginning, rather than down the road in the heat of battle.

Sheesh!!

A massive overreaction? I think not, sometimes there's more to the eye that one can see.

Metal-Storm wasn't killed for the topic he wanted to discuss, he died for his ignorance.
His ignorance towards his rank and his arrogance towards the topic.

Would he have been a higher ranked member up in the ladder, would he have chosen his words more carefully we would not have his son here now defending his father.

He made his bed and now he has to lie in it.

shakes head
There was no ignorance in the topic or rank. There was completely blantant honest observations of the world around him. His rank had nothing to do with that, take it or leave it. Fact's are Fact's everyhing stated about Godfathers and Mothers authing people who then take on individual names is 100% true. The delivery etc can be discussed how ever ignorance over the topic I think not.

Raghnall, I do not intend to dwell upon this subject so I will say one last thing.

If a person is truly loyal,there is no conflict of interest - Simply because your loyalty to said person comes first before anything else.

Good day Sir.

As I've already said, I think there is a lot of truth in the original speech.

~T~

*raises his shoulders and hands in a way showing no understanding of the actions that have taken place*

Looks like the speech was mainly about loyalty within the walls of a HQ.  As you can see that loyalty doesn't extend very far, being that a RHM is dead because a GF from another city disagreed with something he said.

Funny part is that it wasn't even the GM, who all this seemed to evolve around, that lead to the death.  May have been the best thing that could have happened for the former RHM.  At least he foud out who he was working with at the beginning, rather than down the road in the heat of battle.

Sheesh!!

There's a reason why there is a rank system, this clearly is a case for that, Goomba's need to to learn keep there mouths shut and some RESPECT PLEASE

This has turned into an interesting topic.  I suppose one has to know Metal-Storm and his family line to understand his humor, and his inability to maintain "decorum."  And for his big smart ass. 

But what's even better than his speech is the reaction. 

The best line: "he died for his ignorance."  I love that line.  He died for his ignorance?  Ahahahahahaha.  If we died because of our ignorance, I think many of us would be dead 10 times over.  Most of us. 

I think he died because people chose to read what they wanted to read into his statement without a full understanding of what he actually said.  I think he died because of another's ignorance.  But that's just my opinion.  I assume there could have been a hundred other reasons to kill Metal-Storm.  God knows I've wanted to kill his family line throughout my family line's history. 

There's a reason why there is a rank system, this clearly is a case for that, Goomba's need to to learn keep there mouths shut and some RESPECT PLEASE

So what is it you want, participation Recro or silence? The fact you want people to keep their mouth shut show's you have alot to learn in our leadership role.. You should be encouranging people to come to the streets and speak regardless of their rank. NOT telling them to shut up until they rank? My brother in 1 speech did more than some of the consigs we have pettying away and keeping there mouths shut. Which by the way is incorrect. It is THEIR not THERE. Just saying is all.
My brothers delivery could have been different yes, perhaps he should have stuck to his rule of never mixing streets and coffee shops then the title wouldn't even be a topic of this discussion.

What was said, has stated that should not of come from a wise guy or below maybe a made man could get away with it, but not anyone still learning the ropes of respect there fore the matter is closed.

smiles at Recro
Thank you by the way for being a prime example of what I was saying.The following is a quote from your auth thread.
The expansion and organization of Detroit's underground present a new opportunity for someone who has shown the Detroit Riot! The qualities to be a Detroit Captain.
What is your Crew/Family name ? Recur something or other right? NOT Riot or West Side Riot yet you were introduced to the world as a CAPTAIN for Detroit Riot.

What does my family name have to do with this? is that a wee bit of topic

rolls eyes
Really?

In most cases these people are Authed saying "I would like to introduce you to my newest Boss" yet this Boss carries on a different family name and makes his or her OWN speech immediately following and even has their own rules etc. From the beginning they start to show the individuality and separate themselves from the herd.

That was part of my brothers original speech, can you see the relevance now?