I have a suggestion I'd love to hear feedback for, if people would be so good as to spare the time to give the following a serious analytical critiquing.

Introduction:

The change I'd like to see implimented and I'm hoping others do too, regards the business district forum. The way it works, how it is operated, maintained and it's relevence in the game as a whole. As it stands presently the business forums are an uncontrollable free for all mess with many MANY MAAAAANY repeatative threads such as 'genericos pizzeria' where 2 people walk in, order 1 with everything except anchovies, then 1 plain with anchovies and the thread dies and sinks to the bottom of the page and then disappears into obscurity for the rest of eternity.

The benefits of the business forum (as far as i'm aware and i'm happy to be corrected if wrong) are;

1) a boost to your info/vision in that city (again as far as i'm aware this is the single best/fastest method of raising your info in any given city)

2) it counts in a small way to your exp total (units) in general

3) contributes to your district's vip score and the durden mapping

4) gives people who like to role play, but not publically for everyone in the game to see (streets) a place to go to practice, or participate without it being so open for people to ridicule/comment on

and that's it... There is no "business" to be made of this. The threads themselves only benefit the writer and those who post in them. Recently there has been repeated mentions of players avoiding active threads and spamming dead businesses for the sake of not giving the active (living) players a boost to their stats.  (increasing the "why bother" attitude around this forum and contributing to a decline in effort and enthusiasm)

the mafia that controls said business district can't do anything to stop this happening other than bitch and complain after the fact.

The mafia it's self was all about business. Owning properties as fronts for other operations and taking cuts from legit business owners for their protection. Yet theres nothing of the sort here.

Summary of the aims of the changes:

the aim of these changes are: Increase the relevence/importance of business in the mafia community. create functions/roles/actual "jobs" for more people to join in with. give an insentive for people to increase their effort and thus the quality of their role playing in the business districts. To allow the mafia who owns the city and it's properties to actually own the properties.

The suggested change:

ownership/management of the city's business district should be transfered to the mob in the city once a central GF (chairman) has been established and given the same forum control as a HQ (with limitations)

for example: instead of allowing to instantly wack threads they would gain the ability to "lock" them instead. as a mafia boss would have no trouble putting a couple chains and strong armed goons on a joint to make sure their owner didn't continue doing business without his say so.

After a thread has been locked for x amount of time (to be decided) the property can then be 'refurbished' for a small fee.

Of course this will require people with threads to be given notifications that their thread is under lockdown or has been demolished etc.

In extreme cases where the need to instantly "WACK" a thread is required, for whatever reason. the cost of paying for the job of arson to be carried out, then all the materials and extra hands to rebuild it with a speedier time frame can be increased, to a point where its not going to be a desirable thing for people to want to carry out (similar to private flights)

whether this creates a new position in our mafia world that might need to be coded and designated by the chair (like a RH for example) called "business manager" who will then gain the ability to control functions of that forum or whether the control of the forum is only for the CLs, or the GF/GF L/RHM again, to be decided.

Reasoning:

There are many benefits to this change. The most important is this will force outsiders to adhere to the business district as a business and not just an open, empty parking lot from which anyone can sling their merchandise or services. this will mean there will actually have to be business meetings, to discuss business before business can be conducted. adding to the role playing element. as a real mafia wouldn't just allow anyone to set up shop on their turf, in their property. to gain experience and street smarts of their neighbourhood without at least paying for the priviledge or another agreeable arrangement.

this will create an optional payment of rent (of either maintainance of an active business or in exchange for = property in the others city's district, or cash/credits) which can be charged for the priviledge and punitive measures taken like locking down the thread until debts are squared and if the debt doesn't get settled the thread can stay locked for the amount of time required to demolish it to make way for a new business. (without causing unnecessary complications) the chairman doesn't need to go chasing the business owners CL to enforce suitable punishment for voiding a business contract.

as well as allowing mobs to control their own city's business district this could lead to a new form of "advertisement" for people (particularly tailors) to advertise their services. Instead of having to open a bunch of "shops" to advertise the fact they make custom suits, or have ready made generic gif crests for families to wear they can have their 'advertisement' in a billboard style business thread, for as long as they pay to have the advertisement there.

This is the major and most important change in this suggestion thread. Although I think the following are also good recommendations, I'd be happy to still see only the first part of this suggestion actually be implimented.

Other suggestions:

Finite properties:

Putting a limit of the amount of business properties that can be owned. There are finite properties to own in the district/high street/market square. even a market place where all of someones wares are in a basket or tub... there can only ever be so many merchants in a given area. how the amount of property available is determined, can be upto whoever is in charge of the decision making process for this. perhaps dfp style with X amount per Y amount of users or per occupied district, as each district comes under control of the mafia the geographical land mass increases, as such so does the amount of property available for use.

(after asking for feed back. Several people made the counter point to this suggestion that it will limit an already dwindling RP forum and wont contribute to an increased quality of RP and as such shouldn't be added - whilst I disagree with this I do accept that it can be left up to each city with control of the forum to enforce a limited amount of active threads in their city for themselves instead of having it coded to enforce it for them if they want. The major reason behind this is, it will encourage families to keep their business threads alive and active and will stop people abusing the fact they can spam a dead thread for the bonuses without giving the active users any benefits)

On the same note, of stopping players abusing the dead threads for gains whilst avoiding benefiting the active thread owners, an "inheritence" code could be implimented. so that users (bound by account) can inherit the business thread of the previous incarnation.

Paying to do business: (automated tipping)

hopefully this will finally sort out the fact everyone and their mums is owning a rp coffee shop or pizzeria that get a few responses of "walks in, doesn't actually use money to pay the business owner for their services and time and leaves with a little more info/vision and vip pointage than they did before their generic wording" ... control over the forum allows owners/cities to impliment a price for doing business type of function. as the advantages for using this forum is worth paying for, make it be paid for. of course, business is competative so the pricing (similar to DFP) can be set within limits. again to be decided by whoever is in charge of the decision making process.

(again some people during feedback made counter points that it will a) discourage others from participating in the threads if they have to pay & b) be unfair on poor people - although i didn't suggest it be a bank breaking amount of cash, just enough to make it an actual business transaction rather than solely role played cash exchanges that dont actually benefit the business owners at least a little. However this can be entirely upto the GF(chair)/designated business district manager/individual business owners)

I'm well aware people may feel like this could potentially make people want to avoid participating because it's no longer free bur, if you're having to pay for the priviledge of better street smarts, vip points, experience and a more immersive role playing experience you're probably going to want to get your money's worth from it with more effort and try a little harder to involve yourself. The aim being to increase the quality, over quantity of role playing in the forum. It's not better to have shit on your doorstep than dust

I'm aware this may be a divisive suggestion, at least from the feed back i got from the first draft. So that it why I made sure to seperate the main (and most important) suggestion and the additional suggestions. Even when people did give negative feedback on the additional points, I've still yet to find someone who disagrees that a city's mob should have control over it's own business district forum.

I want to see the people running a city be able to close down businesses far better than you can now.

Sure you can RP it out but that doesn't always work. It would be nice to have someone in a position that can lock threads that have been dead and just being revived for the spamming of VIP points. Because honestly, if its been closed by that city, no one should be able to keep posting in it. If its been dead for years and suddenly turns back up to the top because someone didn't want to post in an active business it should be able to be locked and not used until people from that city are dead and someone new takes over. 

I am all for changing the business district and the abilities cities have to control their own in a much more effective manner.

I like the idea of a city being able to decide what business is conducted there. From an RP standpoint it makes perfect sense. If a city head was able to effectively shut a business down because it was trashed and worthless, and build up a new business in its place that's busy and making money, I can believe it.

I think people having to have the OK to and pay a rent for the privilege of having a business in another city's business district makes sense.

I have no objection to having to pay a fee if I frequent an establishment.

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"On the same note, of stopping players abusing the dead threads for gains whilst avoiding benefiting the active thread owners, an "inheritence" code could be implimented. so that users (bound by account) can inherit the business thread of the previous incarnation"

I do not like this for multiple reasons.

1) We don't inherit shit all else in game, (ooc currency excepted)

2) I do not like the idea of someone possibly riding on the work they've done before, I do not think it right to reap the successes of any stuff your previous characters achieved.

3) Anonymity. The way I see it either a) It is publicly shown who the 'new owner' is - Thus forcing someone to reveal their new name. Or b) There's no way for someone to see who is currently benefiting from participation in that particular business  - Thus if it turns out that I think "Fred Back From The Dead" is a dickhead, I don't want to unwittingly assist him by drinking coffee in the cafe he just inherited from his father, "Incognito Ian", whose name is still over the door.

4) I am one of those assholes who abuse the dead players' threads because I do not wish to benefit other players with MY posts and contribution. I am happy to pay for my contribution. I am happy to role play and engage in a thread if I enjoy it. I will absolutely actively avoid threads from living players in other cities - or, players I outright think are dickheads, purely so I am offering them no boost to their info. Because no, just no.

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If the component of me contributing to someone else's stats was removed, I would participate much more in active, well written threads.

I am aware I gain benefits from posting in the business districts in other cities. I would consider monetary contributions for services and my downright awesome roleplaying responses payment enough. Both the city and I gain this way.

I can not pretend that if all I had to post in were active threads from living people in other cities, where I'm contributing (no matter how small an amount) to their stats, that I would post. I would not. I would cut off my nose to spite my face. I might be the only one, but eh, I dunno, maybe not.

I fully support giving content control powers to Godfathers. Seems like a good thing to put in their hands, and it helps them fulfill their responsibility of keeping their BD looking sharp. I would like to recommend allowing any Godfather in a city to do this, as I don't see why only a GFC would be able to destroy a business.

This suggestion makes sense it is something that i support 100%

It makes sense for a Godfather to be able to control the business district of his/her city

From a role Play point of View the godfather or ruling family if no godfather are the ones that run the protection rackets in that city.

So it is by there grace that you can operate in there city/district

I support this half way - 

As some have said it makes complete sense for a GodFather/Mother to have the pull and resources to with out waiver influence building permits and code violation etc. 

How ever in the absence of a GF/M it should not go to an "Acting GF/M" It should be left to its current state - Part of taking the Rank of GF/M is unlocking this feature and cleaning up or charging protection for existing business. 

To many people think they are king shit on turd Island, give them features they haven't unlocked or earned and you perpetuate that myth.

Well Darkmickey, your business is still new so give it some time before you called it dead.

I don't agree with a mugging like option when you close a business. Maybe the experience gained from it sure  but not taking someones money they have on hand. That seems a little extreme to me.

DaffyDuck, I can totally see what you mean about the Acting GF status and agree that there should definitely be a Godfather only part on it, not an acting. Either way I just want to see a Godfather be able to control their own city fully.

As a new player, I actually like these ideas. For example, as I started playing and venturing through the game, I did stumble across the Business District. I almost automatically left and continued on with my jail busts and drug sells because I saw no benefit for me in that section of the game. I felt a lack of "operation" or "movement" among players. There needs to be more interaction (I.E. Giving control to Godfathers, establishing positions to administrate and delegate issues for each district, charging taxes, etc.).

These initial suggestions by queenie are great, but obviously need adjustments to be beneficial to all parties involved. I support this change.

though i can understqand what you're saying, Darkmickey I disagree that the "points" should be removed. whichever form of points being removed that may include. If for example, the business you made (after another few weeks of genuine activity) goes out of business, either because you no longer wish to continue operating the business or don't have time to, i feel it'd would be unfair and from a role playing point of view, unreasonable thing to do, to remove your gains from it.

you would still have kept the money (if any is made) you'd still have the street smarts from spending so much time interacting with the locals in your neighbourhood and your "experience" wouldn't decrease because you no longer continued to operate the business.

However there would be no more gains to be made for you. As the business would become locked and demolished.

I am completely in favor of this idea. The one thing I would say, is for cities that do not have a GF - perhaps the current GF could tick a box on "Yes or No" to say it needs to be removed and then majority vote wins? 

Also. I did think about that myself DaffyDuck. As i wasn't sure whether or not a city without a GF in it should be allowed to have business control or not.

However, I think a godfather rank should be required as it's the position at which all city (district) business comes under the jurisdiction of 1.

I do think that when there is a GF in the city they should be able to assign the business district manager position to another player who then gains access to the ability to control the forum.

similarly to how it is coded for CL's to give hands a position and then those hands can manage/maintain the HQ forum.

I do also like the idea of assigning an actual player to the role - but it would add something new and someone would still be in charge. 

I disagree with you Squishy. I think this is a much better option. You have GFs that are able to control their city but you don't allow them to fully control the whole city. This would allow them to control their business districts and stop the useless spamming of the dead businesses just for the VIP Forum experience they can get.

It would just be nice to see proper control over the Business Districts. Less of a way to spam for VIP experience. I just like this idea so much better than always jumping to having to use guns just because you are strong.

You can enforce it via RP sure, but that doesn't always work out well. And we have seen cities dropping like flies and cities staying relatively empty.. I just want an option that for once doesn't resort to a whose got the bigger gun because it honestly doesn't need to be that way for the businesses.

I agree with Cin. This point was raised in the original post its self. That this option doesn't force a *sigh - irritated* chasing of players to their CL's to harrass and bother them with adhering to our city's rules regarding the business.

both from a RP stand point and game mechanic stand point this change makes perfect sense. If we control our HQs, why would we not control the district/city also, once we reached GF?

"I think changes like this just keep dragging down those in power who are great - down the the level of the lowest common denominator."

Erm.. no, no it doesn't. The suggestion wasn't just give any tom dick or harry control of a city's BD. only once a GF is in the city.

Is this its self not a sign of greatness? your response comes across as you're saying that CL's should war with each other, or get irritated with each other over, what could/should be an easy self maintaining function in the game.

Which I am all for but let me use an example.

GF sets a Business District Manager.

Business District Manager notices a business that didnt go through for approval first.

The GF then approaches persons CL while Business District manager closes the business in an RP fashion.

Now you got the person who wrote the business pissy complaining to their friends. Now their friends are spamming that business and keeping it at the top.

So if going through player to player doesnt work and only causes more trouble, why is having something coded in such a bad thing? It would give GFs more power in their cities and we aren't seeing a biggest dick contest over something that you would think is so easy to deal with.

To be fair I think this benefits people that are active and trying to keep the business district alive with new businesses. I think active and alive people should be rewarded for their efforts.