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| The 48 Hour Rule | Started by: Zig-Zag on Nov 25, '07 14:16 |
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Zig-Zag sits on his corner. The 48 hour rule is, in my opinion, worthless. It's a lazy crewleader's way of getting out of having to do actual guidance to new players. The crewleader's are so worried about looking like member whores that they sit sheltered in their little HQ's, and don't talk to new players. That's bullshit in my opinion. If you really want to help new players you need to do something other then tell people--who don't listen--not to kill new players. You need to start guiding the new players. Actually get off your high throne's and talk to them, initiate conversation. Start off small, and don't talk about joining your crew until the player asks. That's the only way to start getting better players. So, Crewleader's, I ask you, take down the 48 hour rule, and actually start doing something. Even if you don't want to spend the time to do it yourself, delegate people to do it for you. It's the only way to make this place better, and it's more efficient then a 48 hour rule. |
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| I've actually seen quite a few people wacking gangsters under 48 hours who are seasoned veterans looking to get away with a "quickie". Those people KNOW how to act in our world, but choose not to, and get punished accordingly. It's not a question about leadership, so much as it is about self-control. | |
| Reply by: MolotovMcHugh at Nov 25, '07 14:30 | |
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Personally I sit on the fence on your speech. On one side of things, I believe that 24 hours is plenty of time for a new mafioso to find a home. First off, most young folks aren't new. Their families have been through the process before and it really shouldn't take someone long to figure out what leader they're suited for. Giving people more time as a gangster with a gun leads to a greater chance for random shots being fired, as well. 24 hours was always the standard rule back in "the good old days", and as the old saying goes: "Don't fix what's not broken". With the ability for someone to now accept an invitation to a family as a Thug, I'm still unsure why there's such a debate on this issue. Now, on the flipside of this argument. I disagree with the idea that crewleaders should be more active on this. I hate memberwhoring. I despise it. Sometimes it's disguised as "help", but in the end, the point is to drag members in, ignore them, use them to earn or shoot, and then be done with it. Without going into specifics, it is still done frequently today. All this being said, things are the way they are. If a crewleader says "We have a 48 hour rule", it really shouldn't be a problem following it. Does it really put someone out waiting that extra day to whip out their pistol? Asking the leaders to fix this problem just won't work either though, in my opinion, seeing as how a lot of leaders (not all) couldn't give two shits about who they invite into their fold, so long as they earn them cash, or go down easily to their guns. If someone really wants help, they should initiate the process, and the crewleader should then do their best to help. There's my two cents. |
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| Reply by: VonGaunt at Nov 25, '07 14:35 | |
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| Zig-Zag - what did your own crewleader say when you approached them with this idea? | |
| Reply by: Eddie_Dean at Nov 25, '07 14:36 | |
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I like how things went when I walked into this world, I was pulled aside by a lovely young lady who explained how things went, gave me a few pamphlets to read through and helped me into this world, giving me a chance to figure things out on my own... with in 48 hours I'd made gangster... and, I had talked around and found a crew I liked and settled into it on my own... Frankly, I think that new people on the streets should be pulled aside much as I was and have things explained to them, if they're from an old family, there might be some rules they need to be reminded of, if they're new blood, they'll need all the help they can get... My point? 48 hours untouchable is a bit extreem, but it'll give people a chance to get settled? Maybe, but the new blood needs some support and some guidance as well. I don't think every crew should have a New blood team, I just think that some one has to be there to explain what's going on so they don't fade out with a case of boredom... |
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| Reply by: Kero_Wyn at Nov 25, '07 14:52 | |
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Brasco looks at Zig-Zag, giving him the time of day to get on with his speach and waits for his turn to speak You raise a good point yet I think you may need to work on the way you put that point across, surely coming to the streets and ranting about the 48 hour rule will only see it fall on deaf ears. I know, from only being in this world for a matter of minuets, that there are leaders out there that approach new blood and talk to them about the facts of life, but in my opinion, maybe these leaders might need to show some of this attention to their new recruits, thus teaching them the ways of the world and thus protecting the "innocent" without disregarding the rule, lets face it not many "n00bs" know how to use a gun, it is primarily down to the experienced hitmen that these young bloods are falling? Everyone knows that when you get word from the big cheese, it puts a smile on your face and makes you feel part of the family right? So why give that feeling to some new faces and not some current family faces? meh, just my two cent... Brasco goes for a wonder... |
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| Reply by: Brasco at Nov 25, '07 15:02 | |
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*Fisk smiles at the words already spoken and offers his voice to the topic* I have only recently landed in these streets, and I know it's not my place to open my mouth quite yet, but I was approached in a most helpful way and have settled nicely. Though I understand this may not be the case the states over. *Shuffles slightly at speaking out and glances around the people* |
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| Reply by: Fisk_Capizzi at Nov 25, '07 15:13 | |
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A lot of people use the phrase "I couldn't disagree more" these days. I wouldn't go that far, since I probably could disagree more. But not much more. We all know about the AntiChrist, I'm like the AntiRuiner. Although I only disagree with things I don't agree with, but I digress, quite alarmingly so. Lazy? Au contraire my ill informed friend, a 48-hour policy does require enforcing. Enforcing a policy often takes more work than sending out a templated mail, after all, you only have to write that once; so that's that. Actual guidance? Actual guidance and interaction is a very hard thing to acheive with someone if they haven't got a pulse, and if there were no 48-hour rule, most gangsters would cease to have a pulse shortly after turning thus; so that's that. Worried about looking like member whores? Granted, I can't speak with authority on this situation as you do, as I can't read the crewleaders' minds...I assume you can't either though, so you're just making wild assumptions so I'm afraid I won't even humour this. Don't talk to new players? Where is the obligation to do that? Nowhere, it's a Crewleader's obligation to lead their crew, leading the community comes a distant second. Have you ever thought that the 48-hour policy is also in place to proteect a crewleader's own members? Everyone knows that you're far more likely to be pushing up the daises if you shoot some innocent; so is it not a possibility that the crewleaders put forth a nationwide ruling to try and eradicate, or at least lesson that risk? After all, they owe far more to their own members than they do to total strangers. To finish, I'd suggest that a crewleader, or even a delegate on behalf of a crewleader approaching the new blood, at least at this time, is a slap in the face of Witchy and the others at 'Hoodlums. After all, some bum is far more likely to make a beeline for the leaders, rather than someone who's set up an initiative on their own. But what do I know? I'm just a gangster. |
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| Reply by: Draize at Nov 25, '07 15:17 | |
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Being new to this world, the 48 hour rule was a life saver. It gave me time to read around and figure out what was going on. It took me nigh on the full 48 hours to find a family to approach. However I've had little interaction with the leader, if any, but I feel quite confident that I know what I'm doing here, simply by reading the abundant information in my HQ rather than having it force fed to me through means of mobmail. |
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| Reply by: Illwish at Nov 25, '07 15:31 | |
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Frankly I resent the grouping of all in one category. I know myself, my CL and a few others who immediately upon spying a new civvie greet them and assist. HeadStart for Hoodlums is also a part of this. However there is a fine line between this and being called a memberwhore. I have heard so much about that particular subject that I sent my welcome letter to admins for their view. it was considered educational versus memberwhoring and they liked it. I usually end up keeping in touch with quite a few of these people even after they have joined other families. They may come to me to chat or barring their hierarchy being on, a game question. I would also like to point out that not all newcomers to our world have broken all ties with the other world so that by the time they are roaming our streets again it is as a newly ranked gangster, they simply have not had the time to do anything about joining a family prior to that point. So, I for one, firmly believe in the 48 hour rule and would hope to see our family continue it even if others stop |
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| Reply by: ElainaDeLuca at Nov 25, '07 16:58 | |
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Hmm, well, see.. When a leader sends out a welcome mail helping someone they are called member whores. Even if we don't say "JOIN US NOW" we are considered member whores... To reiterate something I said in a different conversation regarding the 48 hour rule...
So, as you group the leaders and right hands in as "lazy" can we assume that all of those who want the 48 hour rule abolished as drooling, wackhappy monkeys who do not care to see the population of our world grow? |
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| Reply by: Three at Nov 25, '07 17:03 | |
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Three, you and I both know that 24 hours is long enough to get a family. Surely only a drooling moron would be unable to grasp this point? It is dangerous to people like myself, who have worked hard, to allow people without a leader to run around with a gun. |
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| Reply by: Tamelo at Nov 25, '07 17:18 | |
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First off my dear chap, you state quite frankly and openly that you're thinking that all our leaders that we have now a days are very lazy is untrue. If you look at people like Oliver you can see that they have been working as hard as they can, and have been doing a very good job of things. Second off, when, my dear sir, did it become the responsibility of the crew leaders to walk up to ever member of the lower order that step of that fretful boat and explain to them how to play? I think dear boy that we must assume that they are after all very busy working on several other things and are unable to speak to ever person that arrives on our shores. I must say old boy that your statement that says "The crew leader's are so worried about looking like member whores that they sit sheltered in their little HQ's, and don't talk to new players" is not quite accurate. Why, I can remember my father telling me stories about how ever newer member to these dreadful streets had to approach a crew leader to get an invite, not wait for a crew leader to approach him. Indeed, they thought any other way completely idiotic. I do however, my good sir, have to say that I like your idea of crew leaders appointing people to help with the newer players that arrive hear. As long as we are doing something to help this world grow I can see no possible problem at all. As far as removing the ever present 48h rule, I think that it is hear to stay, for while crew leaders may very well be doing what they can to help new players, can you not understand there giving an extra little boost to shove them on there way? |
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| Reply by: Algernon at Nov 25, '07 17:57 | |
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Well its a rule we either aceept it or take our chances. Personally I think the rule is a bad one. First if all as stated earlier there are no real noobs in our streets. I dare say 99% of those that walk the streets have mothers, fathers, sisters or brothers that have been here before them. Everyone knows to join a family. 24 hours is enough to do that. Personally, my son who is not yet in the street told me the other day, "Pops, if someone takes you out, I'll jump right into the street. I will have a gun in hours and I have at least one shot to avenge you." He went on to say that he would shoot a gangster that is sponsored from the family who killed me. He said he'd go to the range and train a couple times after he made gangster, that would give him 12 hours to find his victim. He knows until he shoots someone he cant be touched for the first 24 hours after he is promoted to gangster. Smart little bastard, he is. |
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| Reply by: -canine- at Nov 25, '07 19:19 | |
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What about those times that our population booms and there are no mothers, fathers, brothers, and sisters? (OOC: When the administrators turn advertising on.) Right now we have a group of people going around helping those new to our world yes, even I am trying to organize something within my family to help those NEW to our shores. Sadly, attempts such as this are usually meant with the term "Member Whore". Tell me, why should we as leaders try when that is what we are going to face? You see a family growing quickly and bang they are "Member Whores". |
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| Reply by: Three at Nov 25, '07 20:21 | |
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| I agree with Three on this subject. I do say, what she stated is a problem in today's world. It basically the battle of Yin Vs. Yang. You see My dear fellow, I would hazard to state that there will never be any fellow that is completely happy with the way crew leaders are doing things. Most have some type of criticism to say, and most say it in such a Wagnerian manner. | |
| Reply by: Algernon at Nov 25, '07 20:55 | |
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Ok, I'd like to make one reply to all of you. To clear up my statement of lazy crewleaders I just need to say that, though they may be ranking, and running their families, they make little effort in helping our world. I'm a big one for helping our world, I'll do anything I can to help anyone. I've never stated that it was the crewleaders that need to go out and talk to every new civilian, but they should have someone delegated to do just that. And, to prove my point about what crewleaders think about the term member whore, which wasn't brought on by a bought of telekinesis, but by reading the journal's of my family, I'd like to quote Three, whom I admire greatly.
See what I mean? I'd like to give a straight up definition of "Member Whore" A member whore is one whom does one of the following: 1) Sends an invite without first initiating conversation with, or having conversation initiated by, the invited. 2) Sends an invite after conversation is initiated without the invited actual having requested sent invite, or even showed interest in the family. 3) Initiates conversation in a brute force attempt at scaring the person to join them, such as "If you don't join a family, you will die. I've got a slot open, I'll send an invite if you like." That's an example, and isn't limited as such. Anything that has to do with inviting without reason is whoring. but for an example of what is not member whoring: 1) Initiating conversation to tutor the new civilian, with hopes that with tutoring and conversing that civilian will end up requesting an invite. 2) Having conversation initiated by the civilian themselves. 3) Having a member of your family initiate conversation in a proper way (review previous stated guidelines) 4) And, here's a tricky one. Inviting someone who is an old world friend of your members, where as conversation for invite was requested by the friend (I don't consider it improper, but I would suggest that the member of your family tell their friend to request the invite themselves.) That's what I'm trying to show you all. I'm in no way attempting to degrade these crewleaders, my ancestors owe much to both Three and Oliver_McTavish's ancestors. Not to mention other crewleaders. All I'm attempting to show here is that there is a flaw in their outlook of the 48 hour rule, that could be solved in less damaging ways. My ancestor's lived in a world with no 48 hour rule, and it worked just fine. Why? Because the families had active members who were helping those fresh off the boat. That's all I'm trying to suggest, any other way to me is a lazy man's catch-all rule "Either they can get it in 48, or they don't deserve to live" Some people need guidance even with 48 hours, so why not give them the guidance from the start, and solve a lot more problems then we're causing. |
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| Reply by: Zig-Zag at Nov 25, '07 22:09 | |
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| I "member whored" a member right into someone else's family today...how does this fit in? | |
| Reply by: PR_Rep at Nov 25, '07 22:16 | |
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| PR_Rep, I think that's considered "bad press" not "member whoring" | |
| Reply by: Zig-Zag at Nov 25, '07 22:19 | |
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Ok, I agree that 24 hours is enough time to find a family, but you offered NOTHING logical or relevant to support your argument. In fact, your comments were so contradictory and irrational that I actually laughed. The 48 hour rule is, in my opinion, worthless. It's a lazy crewleader's way of getting out of having to do actual guidance to new players. LOL. What??? So, now in addition to looking out for their families, crewleaders have an obligation to the unsponsored? Actually get off your high throne's and talk to them, initiate conversation. So, in your opinion, the CLs think they are too good to talk to new people? Surely it isn't that they are too busy, running a family, and also dealing with the idiots who break rules such as this one. Trust me, there are plenty of idiots that need dealing with. Enough to keep a leader busy for many hours out of the day. So, Crewleader's, I ask you, take down the 48 hour rule, and actually start doing something....It's the only way to make this place better, and it's more efficient then a 48 hour rule. So, in order to better help the noobs, we should remove a rule which prohibits killing them. Yeah...that makes sense. Come on man. If you want the rule gone so that you can have more things to shoot, say so, and explain why. At least it would be honest rather than this comedy routine you've brought out here. |
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| Reply by: maxwell at Nov 25, '07 22:27 | |
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