*Taking his spot outside the local bar in New Orleans, Frankie turns his head side to side to take note of who's paying attention..*

Evening fellow Mafiosos, I hope your not too busy to listen to me on this fine winters night, I'll try to be short and not take up too much of your crime time..opps, did I say crime? *cough* I meant prime, sorry.

I come here today to discuss something slightly different to what has been said before, we have all seen many times speeches regarding the rank of "Made Man", what it takes, what it means..but what about beyond it?.
When a man or woman becomes a "Made" member of their family, it is something special to remember, that all your hard work, the welcoming of your Don and Godfather/mother, your continued loyalty and respect has finally paid off, know that you are an official part of the family, all eyes are on you, all your actions have a reaction from everyone around you, not just your family, but other leaders and members across the globe..

As honourable as it is to become a "Made Man", should we really loosen the reigns so much that ranking from there is just "given" away? Capo, Boss etc..
Being "Made Man" doesn't mean they are excluded from the rules and respect that comes with your family, we have all seen these button men and woman screw up before, like going rogue at a later date and then having their former leader approach the streets to apologize and state claim that they never suspected anything, that this person was well respected and also followed the rules, something must have gone wrong...well, yes, something did go wrong, you allowed this person so much string to move around, that they have now taken the piss and walked all over you, abusing your trust and friendship.
Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about anyone in particular, my family line haven't crossed these streets for about 7/8 months, so what ever has happened within that time, I know nothing about, so don't think I am standing her now bitching about you or your leadership skills because I'm not, my father had the same mind as me and he was going to mention the same topic, but never got round to it.

The statement of this speech goes to ask a question, should promoting a member of your family to "Made Man" mean that they then hold the right to receive all over ranks beyond it at ease? or should they still continue to prove they can handle it?

I know that we should all respect a leaders choice and support them when they decide to promote a member of their family to a "Made Man", but this isn't about being "Made", it's about what comes after it, we have all seen rogues, normally ranked Capo,Boss and sometimes Consigliere, the people we trusted to be loyal and respectable till the day they die, not till the day they get bored and want to die.

It is in my opinion that when promoting someone from "Made Man" to "Capo", the same rules should apply to when they were promoted from "Wise Guy" to "Made Man", have they earned it? given you any reason to doubt them? have they started to get off track since they have been given the button...

It's better to ask yourself a thousand questions and be right, then it is to be lazy asking yourself one and being wrong, after all, you and your family are at risk if these men and woman mess up.



Thank you for your time.


*Frankie walks away with his head down hoping not to be shot*



Frankie Gogolak.

The problem you speak of is but a mere symptom of the true systemic issue at hand.  Leaders today play a very difficult game of promoting because if they promote their members too quickly, they risk devaluing those ranks for everyone.  Then again, by not ranking up people who have earned it simply because they don't want to seem like rank whores, they may as a consequence, create a breeding ground for resentment and rogues. 

Of course, not everyone will agree with my assertions here... but history has proven otherwise time and time again.  Most people simply suicide with hopes that their kin may find another family and rank higher - quicker in the future.  In my humble opinion, this is a problematic way of things that unfortunately no leader has control over entirely.  They can only work with what they were given.

There is of course an alternative solution to the aforementioned problems.  You may have to visit a different (OOC) conversation to hear the full details of that one though.

EzioMedici,

I totally agree with what your saying, but then again, a leader who doesn't promote because they don't want to look like rank whores or otherwise, should they really be leaders? caring about what other people outside the family think?

This wasn't about changing the ways of this thing of ours, more of a statement to change the ways it's run, leaders promoting just so they have more high ranker's rather than promoting because it's deserved, Mafiosos who suicide or otherwise because they are tired of having the same rank just goes to show what kind of person they really are, in which case that leader was right in not promoting them, otherwise, should they have been promoted, what would happen if they were tired of not getting auth? yep...we would have a rouge on our hands.

Frankie, you raise an interesting subject. One that affects everyone here, whether they admit it or not.

EzioMedici, your little examples make sense in the world today. However, perhaps it's not the leader's fault? The mindset of the member/associate needs to be one of a servant, instead of the selfish lifestyle you describe. Whether we like it or not, that mindset would solve the problem more than how the leaders do business. If a Wise Guy busts his ass, day after day, even after his "button" is up, he will be more likely to succeed in the family.

When the new members of our society ditch the "I'm the important one" mentality, power returns to the family. Not because of the size of the family, but the heart. 10 members willing to die for their leader is better than 50 who would jump ship as soon as the tide comes in.

Sure, leaders have to make that choice, but perhaps NOT ranking people would instill some humility on the modern generation, instead of feeding into the selfish lifestyle we've seen come into play.

Very nice Mux, I especially liked the "10 members willing to die for their leader is better than 50 who would jump ship as soon as the tide comes in.", that is something I agree with 100%, I said the same thing to my leader only yesterday when he mentioned about the high standards of becoming a "Made" within the family. I would rather struggle getting "Made" than just getting it because it's there, it's what makes a family worth being with, a leader who understands the importance of such a rank and beyound is a leader who will one day be Godfather/mother.

If this is an issue it is one that stems from the individual decisions made by Captains and Bosses throughout our cities.

As you would be able to reaffirm Frankie_Gogolak, within the Kenobi Crime Syndicate we have firm guidelines that govern not just the promotion to Made Man, but to those beyond. These guidelines were laid down by Don Kenobi and the late Godfather Tallien several months before as a means of measuring the commitment and participation of members of their syndicate.

There is no reason the requirements for receiving a promotion shouldn't be made public knowledge for any member, so that they know exactly what they need to do, even if one is 'earn your bones within our crew' or 'prove your loyalty to the cause'. I tend to operate with the policy of innocent until proven guilty, aka the burden of proof. In our world this translates into until a person fucks up they are given the benefit of the doubt. This could pose problems that I'm well aware of, however I've had no displays of lack of loyalty from our family. I attribute this to the mentality we breed, as well as the fact that anyone who is disillusioned would be better off contributing their time elsewhere. Once they have been made their bones in New Orleans and been accepted by us, they have little more to gain from turning on their brothers and sisters.

If a leader is not attributing the correct importance to ranks beyond Made Man and those promotions should be important by the very definition of the titles being given, then that is their failing. The mindset of a member/associate is not one of servitude, it is one of employment. You work for someone, you aren't their slave. The clever leader realises that those who have the 'I'm the important one' mentality can easily be molded into adopting the 'we're the important ones' mentality by making the success of the family mutually beneficial to the leader and the member.

Power should never be diluted from the core of the family, because it should stem from it. Taking a new member into your ranks shouldn't detract from the centre and a lack of humility of the modern generation has been solely bred by the hand holding culture of modern day MafiaReturns. To expect anything less is wrong. That shouldn't automatically exclude them from being considered for promotions in order to teach them some form of humility, far from it. If they've made their bones and satisfied the requirements it would be folly not to promote them. Nobody decreed that being able to push the button was the only requirement for a promotion; it is a leader's individual choice to promote beyond Wise Guy - for a reason.

Every member of the family should be ready, willing and able to give their life for the family. Hell, that line is likely part of the oath they should swear when they become a Made Man. It shouldn't be 10 members; it should be every single one without a second of hesitation.

~G~rin.

Mr Grin, sir..

After reading your reply several times, I am yet to come up with a valid reply, your speech, statement, was so dead on and precise, that it actually had me glued to it, I very much doubt that anyone can come back on it, but if they do...wow..

I would just like to say though that the firm guidelines of KenobiKenobiore when you mentioned about the high standards of becoming a "Made" within
the family, when I said "I would rather struggle getting "Made" than just getting it
because it's there, it's what makes a family worth being with, a leader
who understands the importance of such a rank and beyond is a leader
who will one day be Godfather/mother."

This was in support to the familes high standards in which everyone is expected to be at before being promoted to "Made", I assure you that I was never refering to the family while speaking, if anything, it was our Don that helped me come out and speak for his attitude towards the "Made Man" and beyond is everything that I ever wanted, a leader that doesn't see it as just another high rank within the family, but a decent young man or woman who has done everything asked of them, but still won't be promoted to Capo till they can prove more, I am a man of my word and I swear I wasn't speaking out against our family.

I apolygize for the poor display of public grammer, not sure what went wrong..it all seems like its all just jumped out of place :-/

Frankie, I don't think anyone would take it as you speaking out against our family.  The topic of your speech is an issue for all the families of our world.  As with everything in life, some take it more seriously than others.

I am in agreement with JohnMerrick and I certainly didn't interpret what you said that way.

~G~rin.

I apologize, I was worried that you thought I was speaking about our family in the original speech..

Frankie <--- Suffers from paranoia

hehe :P

For made man Bovine requires a single hand to be cut off and replaced with a hoof.

For capo it is the second hand. This completes the initial transformation to cow.

Boss and consig, well then we are talking multiple stomachs...

It's a tough life in the farmyard...

But seriously our made man requiremetns are tough but I expect the best from Di Cortile, why consider less? I agree that made man is not a default run to the top. Whilst my requirements for higher ranks are a continuation of many of the thoughts behind made man in many cases there are additional items along with a dose of subjectivity based on my personal opinions. However, when I promote a criminal to made man serious thought goes to it and these individuals deserve to be fast tracked in a way as the trials are not straightforward...

Mr.bovine.

I think you have a good point but you must remember that the "fast track" does NOT mean you get promotions just because. In addition you must remember that even a fast tracked person in any perfession must EARN there promotion. Being properly fast tracked is not a  state of being, it is a state of mind. It is the Will to excel and the Talent to back up your will. Without those two things the people being fast tracked will only place a person above a level where they can handle the duties. A fast tracked person will not get promotions just for the sake of promotions. they are mearly more likely to be promoted on MERIT then anyone else. Also, even being fast tracked is not peranent unless you keep yourself at that level of performence.

sincerly, philli-stein

Seems like you focused your reading on one sentence there as I specifically outlined that that there are requirements for each promotion too.

However, there is nothing wrong with the principle of expected fast tracking. Why bother promoting someone to made if you don't think they can make it to the top. This is where my due dilligence comes in, probably on a much harsher basis than others which means I don't have to worry about it later down the road.

Ok you and i have points of view that i think are both correct. I belive that anybody can make the money, sell the drugs, and make the posts and if need be the kills.or whatever your individual requirments may be.however in this world, until you reach made man you leadership qualities won't have as much chance to shine. so you may need to make a  promo to made to see if the mafioso has what it takes to be a subcrew boss or a crew boss.

Promoting someone to "Made" just to check out their weakness and strength is in my opinion a very bad choice, if their weakness is the ability to stand in line and have patience, then your family could have a potential rogue growing.
You don't need to be Made to prove yourself, being active within your family, high earns show dedication and donations show respect, loyalty and gratitude.

But of course, rogues can also consist of these very people, so I suppose in the long term, its impossible to know who you can and can't trust.

Having the made man button represents that you made yourself  "into" the family..You have earn the trust of your Captain..So what about beyond it?

Achieving the rank of Made, you have now the capacity to be known, to utter with respect and to be trusted by almost anyone in your city..Beyond it is important however now that you have prove yourself, there's no meed to repeat it again and again but ingrave it in your mind that you must remain that same poise and attitudes that you have in achieving made. And btw i strongly disagree of what you say that achieving beyond made ranks is "at ease".  Hell, you must wait a certain period of time to achieve the other ranks and you must earn it!

-Puck-

Puck,  you seem to be suggesting that a Made Man is essentially no different to a Don in what they need to achieve.  In my opinion, this will, inevitably, lead to complacency.

Each rank should be accompanied with a step up in behaviour, work-rate and responsibilities and I know that's the principle followed in New Orleans.  If you don't have that, where is the honour and satisfaction in gaining promotions?  Why does someone deserve promotion just because they met some criteria at Made Man and then continued on their merry way holding up Post Offices and the likes?

You talk about 'time' as if working away quietly and waiting a certain period means that a promotion is deserved by right.  That's what happens for friends of mine up to, and including, Wise Guy.  Should we not be expecting a little more from friends of ours?

Well John..you seem to have been mistaken almost everything I said..I just responded to what was our guy here Frankie was talking about.. To clarify things up he says:

"The statement of this speech goes to ask a question, should promoting a
member of your family to "Made Man" mean that they then hold the right
to receive all over ranks beyond it at ease? or should they still
continue to prove they can handle it?"

Im telling him that Achieving the ranks of beyond made man is not having it at ease or with ease. It is always accompanied by hardwork, respect and loyalty.So the crap that you have said is really far from what Ive always want to imply from everybody..

Cheers!

-Puck-

Puck, when you said,

"Beyond it is important however now that you have prove yourself, there's no meed to repeat it again and again"

I assumed that you meant that there was no need to prove yourself again and again after the promotion to Made Man.  You apparently didn't mean that so it looks like you agree with me, after all.

Good stuff.