Having been looking out his office window toward the docks for the day, Will had been sufficiently entertained, and decided to make his way to his soap box, just outside his HQ, and teach the course for the evening.  The turnout for his previous courses had been respectable, so he'd figure he'd reach some of those who really need to be educated.  Others would just ignore this opportunity to learn something and go about business as usual.  "Whatever" he thought as he stepped on his ol' Dr Pepper crate and began his lecture.

I am fascinated by what I've seen.  Recruiting is big business these days.  I remember when recruiting wasn't a course that was taught here.  It wasn't a practice that needed to be taught because it just wasn't done. 

What?  Shocking isn't it.  There was actually a time when civilians came to us, and made an effort to impress.  You still don't believe me?  Well, you're young and stupid.  You have time to grow up and soak up some of the knowledge that is here for the taking.  As long as you're willing to learn something. 

Anyway, I speak the truth.  Civilians, thieves, thugs, used to have to come to us to find a home.  Now?  Well, now things have changed. 

Will shook his head in disgust before continuing.

Yeah, this topic has been out here before.  Sit down and shut up.  It will continue to be out here until this situation is rectified.  It is my goal in life - change the way we do things, especially when it comes to "recruitment."

So, class, I walk around this community - and I see the funniest thing.  I see sponsors who actually say to people: if you want a family, only intelligent requests will be considered. 

Ahahahahahahahaha!  That makes me laugh.

When did: "Ken I joyn ur crewe?" become an intelligent request?  I'm dying for a sponsor to come out here and answer that question. 

When did: "if you want a family, only intelligent requests will be considered" become - sending unsolicited invites?  Please, all you sponsors out there who have sent an unsolicited invite - please come on out here and answer THAT question.  What?  Nobody?  No sponsors want to come out here and explain their actions?  I'm sure there must be some amazingly insightful explanation as to why this practice is so prominent in our community. 

I saw Godfathers come out here the other day to discuss the shooting of -48 gangsters.  And my feeling is - that is a practice that we must stop.  My question is - why isn't this practice of ridiculous recruiting on the list of things that should be challenged as a community?  Obviously I think this information would be better received if it came from a Godfather that was respected by the community.  But I'm putting my two cents in here anyway, because this issue is (to me) as important as shooting of those -48h gangsters. 

So, let it be known - that this message will be sent to those sponsors in my family:  If I find out that you've sent an invite to somebody without first having an intelligent conversation, and especially without a request for an invite, that sponsor will be killed. 

I will note, however, very few of my sponsors have ANY associates?  Why, you might ask?  Because I've already had this conversation with them - and they are well aware that I don't tolerate this practice.  Unfortunately, no matter how hard they work, it's just much easier to accept an unsolicited invite than to offer reasons as to how you will help a particular family. 

Want to know how the community should respond to this epidemic?  The same way they've responded to the -48 hour issue - by creating an unwritten law that those sponsors who send unsoliciated invites will be killed. 

But why would anybody want to do that?  Too much work to have to actually engage in conversation with a new member to the community.  And then they'll actually make something of themselves and we won't be able to use them as target practice in a week. 

That's all I have to say.

Class dismissed.

Rambo listens to Hayes' words carefully, before stepping forward to address the issue.

I, as a young man, have recently experienced the horror that recruiting is today.  My family lines have been away from these shores for quite some time, but my great grandfather left a journal that has since been passed down to me.  In this journal, it clearly states how difficult it was for him to get into a family.  Fresh off the boat, he had to speak to each boss individually and ask them how he could gain their trust, and tell what he could do to help the family.

This was not the case when I came here a few days ago.  Within five minutes of my arrival, I had at least 6 mails from different people asking me to be their associate.  Not one of them was well written or role played at all.  And after those six, more came.  And oddly, quite a few of these came from New York, Mr. Hayes.  It took about 15 mails before my current sponsor mailed me, with a beautifully written mail, asking me what I could do for the family, and why it would be a wise choice for them to take me in.

It's still not what it was in my grand dad's day, but there are a few people out there really making an effort.  And my hat's off to them.

He walks away, pulling his coat tight around him in the cold New York wind.

Hello Will-Hayes (friend of the cow). I was just preparing a speech which echoed similar statements but was also mootastic and I feel it is a topic worthy of multiple diversions and opinions so our minds will meet once my speech has been given. I can hardly wait. Mooo.

Vito_Vidi tosses his pencil between his teeth and raises his hand eagerly.  "Oo! Oo!!" He waves his hand about, Hayes rolls his eyes and points to Vito:

"Reverting to a more disciplined approach to recruiting is like moving into Communism: in that it only works if everyone does it.  I've gotten exactly three membership requests since I've been RHM of the Pack.  This is exactly what I would expect too.  If the incoming civilian population is offered a home from four different crews, far more often than not, he will consider only those four crews."

"Don't get me wrong Professor Hayes, I admire what you're trying to accomplish, agree with you wholeheartedly and hope that there is some unilateral agreement to adjust the way this issue is handled.  But as with any "free market" there will always be someone dropping standards to undercut the competition."

"Frankly, the current system rewards those who "member whore."  Sure they're forced to weed through the bad ones; but that means there's always fresh meat for the hitters.  Besides, if you cast a wide enough net you're bound to catch a few good fish."

Vito_Vidi finally runs out of metaphors and stops talking.  He looks around to see that his long, dull response has emptied the room.

I think that I can provide the short answer to this question:  There are a lot of crime families now.  I remember when there was only one family per city, and plenty of aspiring mafiosos to go around.  Now there are many more families, and recruiting is much more difficult.  One has to assert oneself if one wants one's family to grow (I know, but it beats saying "he or she," "his or her").  It may not exactly be honorable, but it's the sad truth of reality in this world of our right now. 

I'm not saying that it's right.  Just that that's the way it is, and why.

What I will say for this system, though, is that one should not be able to "ask" for membership into a crime organization, either.  That's not how it works either.  It is much safer and more believable to be a friend or at least acquaintance of someone first and then offered employment.  That is how I have recruited or seen friends recruit in past.  Help that individual with settling in.  Become friends in that way.  When the time comes to find a family, they will most likely remember the one who lent a helping hand in the beginning.  Not always, but most likely.

Panda waits in line listening to the various arguments and proliffered agreements and counterpoints. After a brief lull in the hubbub, he decides he should now try to make his small point.

With all things in life, there are checks and balances. Now I realize  I am new to these specific shores, and I also realise that I haven't really earned the right to make my feelings known, being only an associate in this thiong of ours. I also realize that i am grossly underexperienced to verbally spar with such powerful and insightful luminaries as Mr Hayes and Mr Bovine. However, this will not detract me from what I have to say.

Newtons 3rd law of motion, the law of reciprocal actions is often simplified into the statement that foir every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Thgere has been and probably will be member whores. When I stepped off the boat, I was approached by what can only be described as a press gang of wouldbe recruiters. 3 of them, the ones who stood out to me, didn't actually offer sanctuary, but they offered advice, the offered assistance, and they offered what all of us require when we are new, friendship. The others, well it literally was a one or two sentence whoring attempt. As my family have worked on other streets...

Panda thinks for a second and realizes that this statement makes him sound like he is descended from a long line of hookers, decides to correct the oversight before continuing.

Ummm, that is to say, they took to the streets of other countries to engage in organized crime, so because of this I guess I would not be decribed as a complete newbie on how this thing of ours works. So when I recieved those short requests, I simply ignored them. I think this immediately set me above the usual riff raff that steps of the boat.

Crews who member whore will always be weaker than those who don't, and by weakness I'm not talking about hitters or the strength of a gun, I'm talking about alliances and friendships. Whored members are less likely to be as loyal as those who worked for an invite, they are also less likely to follow the rules. This in turn will lead to bad feelings from the other Godfathers and Dons as they will be constantly approaching the whoring family looking for appeasment and restitution for the crimes of its whores. After a time, the other families will grow weary of this constant aggravation, and may take it upon themselves to obliterate said aggravation. And there we have Newtons 3rd law. Whored members resulting in your family being removed by the other Leaders.

As such, it is up to the leaders to enforce and act on whoring families, because quite simply put, the actions of the whore refect badly on us all, and as a result affect the honour of us all.

Having finished what he had to say, Panda slinks back off into the crowded streets,.

While I agree with every point you made there Panda, I'm afraid I have to be picky about your speech.

Newton's third law of motion is not how you have described it. You are correct that it often simplified into 'for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction', but you are using the statement incorrectly in this context. The things you have described are simply consequences. Consequences of bad leadership, of not caring who they affiliate themselves with.

On a side note, Newton's third law of motion states that if body X exerts force upon body Y, body Y will exert a force of equal magnitude as body X - both forces acting in the same line of motion. Which as I'm sure you can see, has nothing to do with when happens when somebody member-whores.

V smiles slyly and winks at the man before disappearing.

LordX walks towards the crowd gathering around WillHayes.

I completely agree with you Mr. Hayes and I am glad that someone finally brought up this issue. I am having some trouble right now finding good associates. Recruiting has become more like a race to see who can send the first invite to the newest kid in town.

I think the problem is that some sponsors send random invites to all the new guys without even any requests. Therefore these new guys, knowing nothing of 'this thing of ours', blindly accept these invites and get into their crews. No efforts are made. That leaves the rest of us with little to work with. Because when we try to start up an intelligent conversation to test a new guy, they tend to avoid us and accept some random invite, thinking "Why go into all that trouble to answer some borin quesions? I'll just click this "Accept" button right here and I'm in".

Well, most of these new kids are too stupid and inexperienced to understand the importance of recruiting. So I think it is the responsibility of us sponsors to put some more effort into recruiting and stop sending out invites to everyone without first thinking hard about it. Yes, I think it is time that a higher authority looked into this matter.

Now, I'm fairly concerned with this speech because there has been no differentiation between "recruiting" and "sending out unsolicited invites". Recruiting could be something as innocent as a sponsor sending out helpful mails to new people on our shores to assist them in anything they need, which is more than likely to result in the new individual joining that sponsor because the sponsor took the time to address them personally and go out of their way to help them out.

Recruiting is actually a beneficial practice for a crew leader, simply because if a civilian, petty thief or thug is a bright spark then the family that helped him out are likely to receive an invite request from the individual and gain a superb member. The more members like this that a family gains, the stronger and better that family will become.

"Sending out unsolicited invites" is not recruiting. That is whoring members for one of two reasons. One of which is that they will then turn into cannon fodder for the family to train their gun on, and the other is the hope that the person will earn some money before they fuck up. That is not beneficial to the family and only reflects bad on them when they consistently have members fucking up, which makes it only a matter of time until that family is considered bad for business and will cease to exist very quickly by... "persuasion" shall we say.

The difference between these two is quite large, and of course there's a grey area when people send out "helpful mails" simply so that the person will say "ye dude thx, cn u invite me 2 ur kru?" and the sponsor invites them. That's still whoring, just subtle whoring. It is up to the Crew Leaders to decide how relaxed or stringent they would like to be on invites to the family based on the quality of a request, and it's not all other CL's place to question it (as such). Before anyone hollers out "Whoa whoa yes it is.", it's not. A CL is answerable to those who are stronger than them, but it is extremely ill advised for a weaker CL to question how another family is run. If a Godfather imposed a ruling on one of those CLs, they would listen to it. If they was questioned about their recruiting from a CL in their own city, they would listen to it and discuss it. If a CL outside of their city was to bitch at them over it, they would stare at them with a bemused face and wonder how the running of the recruiting family has to do with them.

Ah, Mister Hayes. I applaud you for bringing this matter out from the dungeons of the abyss known as "meh" to teach a young one or two. In fact, I had such an experience the other day that I'd love to present to you.

Swayzak hands WillHayes a small copy of the transcript his secretary typed for him, before clearing his throat.

Erm, I hope you don't mind.


(Note: The following is a real conversation. Name has been changed to protect.. something. Read from bottom to top.)




To: MeatPuppet
From: Swayzak
Sent:
Subject:


Ah, well. I'm sure whoever's blessed enough to have your presence in their HQ will be jumping for joy at your work.

??To: Swayzak
?From: MeatPuppet
?Subject:
how can u if u dont hav me??
To: MeatPuppet
?From: Swayzak?
Subject:
??We already do :)
To: Swayzak
?From: MeatPuppet
?Subject:
??u would if ya wanted da best yo
?To: MeatPuppet
?From: Swayzak
?Subject:
??I don't think the Renaissance would be interested in your services.

?To: Swayzak
?From: MeatPuppet
Subject:
?aye yo my hommie g, how bout u hook a brutha up wit a family invite. i be poppin my 9 at all dem hatas. not ta mention i bring in da benjamins, if ya know what i mean. so hook me up yo.



With that said, most people will seem to ignore cries for the lack of quality of our members in the name of what's being referred to as an expansion to the community, or the occasional "Capital" reasoning. It's a dangerous game when you play with dice for as long as we have - and personally, I am extremely selective when it comes to recruiting, as most invitation requests sent to me have been denied on account of lack of quality, or the like. The associates I have brought in to this family have done this organization proud and I'm happy to be the one known for bringing them in as they have progressed far above the average Joe Mafia that are being force fed recruitment messages.

I appreciate the great responses, and participation in this debate.  There are a couple of issues that I want to pick out from what others have said, but forgive me for not taking the time to quote everybody who's said something.  Understand that I am addressing comments you all have made. 

I agree with Cryptic when he says that recruiting is different than member whoring.  Well, that's not totally true.  I agree that in theory they are different.  I agree that they SHOULD be different.  I do not agree, however, that they ARE different.  Well, that's not totally true.  It is true, and it is not true.  

I "generally" speak about these issues because I don't want to be specific.  However, sometimes when I'm too general, it appears as though I am lumping all crewleaders and sponsors together.  That is not the case.  There are quite a few sponsors, and many crewleaders who participate in recruiting, but not whoring.  While there are pros and cons to recruiting, it is a necessary evil in this world.  "Advanced Recruiting" is referencing that other practice - member whoring, which is a practice that happens far too often in this world, and should be flushed out and disposed of. 

I agree with others who have said this practice is a result of their being so many families.  My response to that is - when did we lose sight of the goal?  You don't know what the goal is?  Then that's an even bigger problem.

My final question...for now...

When did "ken I joyn ur krew" become "will u joyn my krew?"

Perhaps it would have been easier if families would have expanded once they reached their capacity. Today, you'd be hardpressed to find a family at even 3/4 of their capacity these days.

With regards to Swayzak and Mr Meat Puppet, what actually happened to Mr Puppet? Has he moved on in the world? Or is he still lying around in the streets?

The concern i have is when someone approaching a man of your stature is spoken to with such vocabulary is extremely annoying and i am sure you are flooded with people of this nature. You took the time to address this "brutha" responses with a dismissive response as "I don't think the Renaissance would be interested in your services." (which i understand the power you have over him) followed by 2 other responses wouldn't it be better spent time if you actually helped him out?

I say this as a man in your position surely you understand that this young chap is obviously speaking jiberish surely a man with your credentials could actually aid and help him on how to address people who are in power?

I see many boards by HQs saying "one liners will be ignored" how about if this is a man/womans very FIRST contact with this world? a man approaches me like that, yes its rather frustrating but is it so much of your time to educate such a man? Or if you are busy how about give him a lower ranking member contact details and let him educate him. This way both wins, the lower ranking family learns the roles of leadership and mentoring and the "brutha" learns a bit of respect for elders.

At one point in our family's generations they were too first timers here in the USA so we can all relate to some extent what this man is going through.

It is a most interesting debate we are having here, and hopefully
one that could result in a change in attitudes for most.

Before I go any further I will say this. It is nigh
impossible to actively and efficiently police member whoring.

My blood line has been on the end of a gun as a result of
some peoples interpretation of recruiting and as far as I know unless those at
the top of our world come to some sort of agreed decision where all recruiting
is cancelled and you have to wait for people to come to you I honestly can't
see it changing much.

Over my blood lines history there has never been a policy to
whore members with random invites. It has gone through a phases where helpful emails
have been issued to people when the docks were full with new blood. It has led
families where specialist recruiting was a big deal and people ranked above
made were asked to get to know people before asking either the crew leader,
right hand or left hand to get them an invite.

I would be extremely disappointed if someone now who I
oversee has taken it upon themselves to issue random invites to join a St Louis family without
entering some form of correspondence with said individual. I wouldn't
necessarily expect the correspondence received in return to be a massive
improvement on a few grunts or poorly spelt words. Lets not forget most of our
ancestors are from Italy
the home of the mafia, and not everyone is as eloquent as Grin, or Denime or
even Will Hayes. The lack of vocabulary does not alone make a person a poor
mobster in my eyes, there are other factors to be considered.

Larry, the last I saw of Mr. Puppet, he was sleeping on a Detroit subway between two trash cannisters. The reason I did not extend a helping hand is because I did not view him as teachable - I considered him a lost cause. On the other hand, if someone sends me an earnest letter, while perhaps containing mistakes, I will more than gladly extend the man a helping hand.


I saw nothing but greed and overconfidence in Mr. Puppet, and that is something that neither me, Kates, Mr. Macleod or the Renaissance wish to take part of. We are some pretty humble folks over here who accept good workers who strive to a common goal - not a selfish bum who is only interested in taking care of himself.


As you can also see if you research his papertrail, he had sent around 50 to 60 letters to others probably in the same position or higher than I am. He is in no family, and has no job. That's a testament to his value, or lack of, to the criminal underworld. Had he been persistent or had a shred of value he may have had a job by now - but alas, he does not.

Within in 3 letters he was determined unteachable? whilst you may be correct on this occurrence you may of also been far off the mark.

Perhaps he was greedy and overconfident but are they not skills you can tame down and mold him into something that maybe of real value to the Renaissance?

I am not criticizing after all you are in the upper ranks and your boss and his advisers run their family the way they see fit, it just interesting to me how different families run things.

Like i said before perhaps he does not know the workings of the underworld. I can remember stories of my early family generation mailing 2 crew leaders in the past and accepting the first person to over them a home, then getting a mail back from the one he rejected (PrinceOfCheese) actually informing him on what the actual etiquette was when trying to apply for work. This was invaluable, he didn't have to do this but he did as he wanted the people of the underworld not to act in a certain way even if it wasn't in his family.

Also i would of deemed him persistent enough if as you say, he sent 50-60letters to different people thats faily persistant in my eyes. Ok its not the greatest way to act but thats someone who doesn't want to drown, but alas you have changed the name so i can not see this paper trail nor can i see what was actually in the paper trail.

Someone may have tried to help him down the line and he rejected i do not know, but for every one example like Mr Puppet there are several that are genuine and do not find a home.

While I may have been wrong with my assessment, I'm not much for a risktaker.


I don't know how other families operate - but when someone recruits a member here, including me, I vouch for them. I put myself on the line for them if they screw up. They are in the family because of me, and if they disgrace the family, I am also to blame for them even being there in the first place.


With this in mind you should be able to understand my reasoning. As my calling card says - I look for professionalism and hard workers - I do not seek bad traits that I can iron out down the road if I deem that the cons weigh out the pros.

I have to agree with those others that have already mentioned this issue of too many families. The community as a whole seem to believe that a family with few members is a weak family which I think causes those people to go out and "whore" members.

It suprises me when I walk these streets and see families declaring new auths, yet when on further investigation there are families within that city that are at maybe 50% capacity at best.. Is not better to have a full family that is strong with reliable members than creating another family that struggles to gain members and has a dash of high ranks? Does it not dilute the honor of being made head of ones family when it seems every person and there poodle is being authed? Alas I think this maybe a topic for another conversation so I will cease it here.

Before my fathers arrival my family had not been on these shores for many a generation and it suprised me when I arrived to see that there were not only so many families but that I was being approached from all directions offering sponsorship some sending me invitations without my request! Very different to what I read in the memoirs of my Great grandfather of days gone by when one had to approach a leader and show then his worth and mettle. I think the statement made by Mr Hayes is a perfect representation of whats happening and what is wrong with this thing of ours currently: "When did "ken I joyn ur krew" become "will u joyn my krew?"

While i share your apprehension when sending out invites, one my family learned when like you they were in a position of power. I believe one of Noah-Levenstein's blood lines when running a family had a sign up stating "If one of my family members can't vouch for you then you are not allowed in" (apologies to Noah-Levenstein if some wording is incorrect but was a long time ago). This is one sure way that the members were vetted and selected accordingly.

I do not seem to follow your last statement though;

"I do not seek bad traits that I can iron out down the road if I deem that the cons weigh out the pros."

Does that mean you do not want to work with people who at first have bad habits but could turn into decent folk with hard work? Does this mean that you want pretty much the finished article so you actually do little work in molding and shaping individuals to grow into their full potential? Sorry if i misheard this.

To rephrase, I do not take people whose bad habits outweigh their potential value in. I do not take people in who have no potential or have no desirable traits.


Compare me to a jeweler. If there's a true gem that I'm able to polish and clean to the point where they're at an acceptable standard for selling, I will be more than glad to clean off the residue. However, there comes a certain time where the time spent cleaning outweights the potential value.


I'm not a social worker, Larry. If someone wants to spend all of their time trying to teach someone who may be beyond hope, that is well and fine with me - I for one won't be wasting my time when time can be better spent teaching those who are going somewhere, or earning for my family.