Sitting in a speak easy somewhere, where only the corrupt dare tread, Michael Brizriole sat deep in thought. After a few minutes and alot more drinks he speaks up to those around him....

In this here thing of ours, what do you consider to be more important both in terms of to you and in terms of whom we should afford more respect to: people of high rank, or people of a high position?

Is it safe to say that a person of rank, say a Right Hand or Left Hand Man/Woman should be afforded more respect than say a person of high rank, say a Don (that isnt a Crew Leader)? Ofcourse it's presumed that a Godfather is both a rank AND position, so that can be omitted from our discussion.

What about a Crew Leader whom is only ranked Made Man? Should he or her be given more respect than say a Don or Consigliere? Should everybody aim to become a person of position, rather than a person of rank?

And ofcourse, the dreaded "sons of fathers" who become a man of position before they become a man of rank (more precisely, a Made Man), are they higher value than every rank, or equal to a certain rank?

Michael laughs

Im sorry for all the questions but I think it would be intriguing to see what others thought of the topic. Please answer honestly, and also please note this discussion has nothing to do with any events that have happened recently or to me personally, I just thought it'd be an interesting thing to discuss.

Please share your thoughts.

I believe that this is not a question to be easily answered.

Though what I do know is that many of the suits walking these streets do not deserve the respect they try to demand from others simply because of the title they hold.

It is very much a suit by suit basis as each crew and to a lesser extent each city has different standards.

I feel you should show respect to both, especially thous who are of high rank but not in a position of  of rank such as RHM or LHM because they have earned it also thous in a high position have earned your respect no matter their rank because of the trust placed upon them by their CL and if you disrespect them you are disrespecting their CL and their GF/GM...

Oh shit! Here come Drexl! Somebody call the cops! Damn too late!

Rank is a very important element in our structure, and should always be respected as such. But if I'm a Made Guy, and some thug who sits at the right hand of a City Don approaches me, you damn right I'mma show that person respect, and so should you. Anything otherwise is just bad business.

So to answer your question, rank or position? Personally I respect anybody I think is capable of killing me, and/or anyone I'm pretty certain I can't kill myself. The Right or Left Hand of a Leader usually tend to be one of them people. Knowudimsayin?

Drexl puts his hand up and awaits a high-five

Not wanting to leave Drexl hanging, Michael high fives

Interesting opinions, would like to hear more.

Respect is given, it's not earned.

It is automatically afforded to both the groups you have mentioned, anyone over made man, and anyone in an obvious senior position within a family - any family.

These people have been chosen by our betters to hold positions of power, at the very least until we rank beyond Made Man we are subservient to them.

This is quite an interesting question you have asked here.

First off I will say straight away that someone's father does not make me hold someone in any higher light. I don't care if you are the son or daughter of a Godfather you will still do the same things and I will treat you the same way I do any other person.

I also think that Crewleaders, their Right-Hand man and their Left-Hand man always deserve the highest amount of respect. They have obviously earned their place and have worked hard to get where they are. Their 'rank' is not important as their position well outweighs it.

Now as far as Don's and Consigliere's go - I believe that any person that outranks you affords them the privilege of being treated with respect. Now that's not to say that anyone ranked below you you can talk to like they're a piece of shit but you do not have to show them the same level of respect as someone that outranks you.

Personally I would have to argue with The_Liar's quote 'Respect is given, it's not earned.'

You should have some degree of respect for everyone, no matter who or what they are. But I do believe that you attain respect from your actions and what you say, rather than the rank you hold and/or the position you hold. Because remember we have had a few bad crewleaders and Hands.

JimmyFarrell - are you therefore saying that if you believe someone to be a bad crewleader that you won't give them any respect? Irrespective of whether you think someone is a good leader or Right hand/Left hand or not, they still deserve to be spoken to with respect.

I will agree with you though, I don't agree with The_Liar's quote. I believe that Respect is earned, and not given.




"But I do believe that you attain respect from your actions and what you say, rather than the rank you hold and/or the position you hold."

The rank and positions that people have are obviously earned. I don't give positions like that to any random person and I can pretty safely say that no other crewleader would do so. So if I see someone in a position or with a high 'rank' then I will give them the respect they deserve.

-V-

Of course, bad or good leaders still deserve to be spoken to with respect. And if you as a CL give a position or a highly valued rank to one of your members, you have done this because you know of their abilities, whereas I do not.

I doubt that my respect is a sought after thing, but if I see that someone's actions are deserving of respect I shall gladly give it. If I see that their actions are not deserving of respect, then they shall only hold my respect because of the position that they have been generously given.

It's a very simple equation. Those in positions of authority are respected by everybody, and button men are respected by everybody. It's not a question of who is respected more. Respect does not come in increments, it is abolute. Either someone is respected, or they are not respected.

I would tend to throw my hat in with The_Liar, JimmyFarrell and Noah-Levenstein. Noah I believe is correct about showing respect to people in higher positions to you as well as the higher ranked. However I would disagree with him concerning respect not coming in increments and it being absolute. And here is where Jimmy Farrell and The_Liar, in my opinion are both partially correct.

I am going to SHOW respect and ACT with respect towards the ranks and positions mentioned as that is what should be done irregardless. However where The_Liar and JimmyFarrell both mention a different kind of respect, and this kind being earned not given, would be my personal respect. In this case whether it be my CL, RH or high ranking people in my family or any in the community - my personal respect for them is based on how well I know them, watching their actions and treatment of others and many other factors. Respect of position/rank is given but personal respect is earned - not given.

I would like to say that both People of postion and people of a high are both deserving of respect within the family.....

Fro one reason that the RHM/LHM are but in thoses position, because crew leader believes that person is capable of the requirements to help the boss in daily operations of crew, and have been entrusted by boss to be part of the heirarchy......

But at the sametime members of crew that are Don's & Consigliere's are deserving of respect, becuase they have put in a lot of work, and dedication to the crew. In order to be promoted to these positions you have to show that you one with knowledge, respect, and loyality to family.

I agree with Alessia, that you must SHOW respect for every CL/RH and high ranks, though they might not have your personal respect as this is, yes, earned with their actions. That's why we look up to some leaders and not to many others, but still treat them all with politeness.

As of the question, I believe positions are more important than ranks, because they not only show you earned your CLs trust, but you do a special effort towards the growth and organisation of the family, while many times (not always) have achieved a high rank just shows you managed to survive and complete a lot of petty crimes. Of course that reaching these high ranks also means you earned the trust of the CL.

 As a Crew Leader myself I expect a certain amount of
respect from people when they approach me regardless of rank however I provide
the same respect towards others that I expect for me. Rank or Title is a very
tough thing to weigh in on and perhaps I can shed some light or insight as it
were from my point of view.

We all have people in our families who are top drawer, they
will stand behind their families 1000% and will have worked their way up the ranks
and should be afforded respect for that. 
Some people do it in shorter time frames other in longer time frames but
each and every CL will most likely have a criteria for the promotions they
have. So yes you should respect those who are higher ranked then you but you
should also expect a certain amount of respect back from them as they should be
acting their rank and respecting their family to act in a manner of dignity.
Helping to show their family is respectful and tactful thus making their family
look good and themselves.

As far as the RHM/LHM and their ranks that is immaterial
although it would be nice if they were always higher ranks. You have to remember
that the gods step in here and have a commandment that stipulates the actions
of the RHM reflect upon the CL. So we as leaders must think to ourselves who do
we want in that spot that will ultimately affect not only ourselves but the
entire crew and possibly city. So when you have people of rank fulfilling other
obligations or who may not want that burden themselves you must look to those
people who will be able to fulfill that obligation. Now as far as the respect
for them goes having just pointed out that they are acting for the CL, in my
mind that would tend to make them be shown the same respect as the CL.

Respect comes in different flavors so to speak but it is a
pinnacle of our society. You can debate endlessly on if someone has earned
respect or not.  We should all respect positions
and rank as they are both of importance to the family, CL and City which they
belong. The point is that even if you have no respect for someone you should
show them respect at all times. Why would you lower yourself to that level of
being disrespectful thus losing the respect of others? Thus bringing shame upon
you and your own family.

How have people who have just entered our city "earned their CL's trust"?  Some of the most vile traitors this planet has ever seen have had remarkably loyal fathers.  Marcus Junius the Elder was a great Roman noble and yet his son Brutus still stabbed Caesar in the back.  Go figure.

Would YOU trust a young kid with your life and the continuance of your family name based on what their father did?  I'm not saying I wouldn't - I'm just asking a valid question.

Now Capos and Made Men on the other hand are told that they are too high and notable to associate with Civilians and Gangsters.  They are called "whores" for offering assistance or investigating potential talent.  At the same time they are basically told that their ranks are meaningless - a "position" is what is valued.  Gangsters of course are allowed to offer assistance and associate with one another.  What about a Gangster RHM?  Can an RHM who is the same rank as the lowest common denominator on the streets associate with these very same Civilians and Gangsters?  I mean they rode in on the same boat together.  

The logic seems convoluted.  Of course I'm anticipating this comment to greatly annoy those who are afraid to experience an independent thought.

I believe that any old schmuck can walk these streets, lay low and soon become a person of high rank after knockin over a bunch of post offices and liquor stores. But it takes a real mafioso, someone very trustworthy and respectful to have a crewleader place their family in his/her hands.

Having said that i believe it is much more important to trust those of a high position, rather than a high rank

If the CL of a family see's a gangster as his most trusted ally then so be it, appoint them as the RHM/LHM. These people have vast experience that us mere ranked people may not have. I sure know I'd find it hard taking on the duties of a RHM right off the bat, and would have to be shown the ropes before I got the full hang of it. And at times there may not be enough resources to train someone up to be the perfect RHM/LHM. I see it as perfectly reasonable if the CL wants to appoint someone he knows he can fully trust his family with.

But then again that presents the argument that it's always the same bloodlines being given the positions of power, and new blood is rarely given the opportunity with which to prove themselves. I would gladly take on a role of such importance in order to prove myself to my CL, yet I know that unless I miraculously overtake a RHM/LHM in the trust stakes, I am unlikely to get this chance, as I am relativley new to these streets. I am content with this though, and will continue to serve my family in any way possible, be it helping out new members in the family or cleaning out the trash.

this is a game that high-ranking people have earned the rank, people of position may be of lower rank but certainly confident, more clear that we must respect people of high-ranking but I think we should trust people of position, you see, a crewleader can appoint a gangster to be his LHM or RHM, why I do not trust too?

I think I'll jump on a few different bandwagon's here.

'Respect is given, it's not earned.'

I don't think I could disagree with this statement more. Giving somebody auth or giving them the position of RHM/LHM just means that said leader respects them. Sometimes that's not even the case, they might give them a HQ because they can shoot and the city needs guns. What it certainly does not mean is that I will respect them. My bloodline has seen many leaders who I would describe as fucktards, half-wits and moron's, thus not deserving of my respect. I don't doubt people followed them around pouting and touching their bums to curry favour but for me, I'll judge you on the sense you speak and the actions you take.

Alessia made the point that you might "SHOW respect and ACT with respect towards the ranks and positions", this I agree with. If I think you are a cock with a big set of balls and an accurate gun though have little in the way of intelligence, I dare say if you came up to me demanding a witness statement, I would politely redirect your efforts else where. I wouldn't however tell you to fuck off though I would probably think it. Why? I like to think I'm not among the aforementioned half-wits to be so short sighted as to not know that cocks with good guns can be dangerous.

At this point, I think I'll point out the obvious. I'm a goomba, I'm also a RHM so I hold position but not rank, should you respect me for such?

No, no you shouldn't. If you were to, I wouldn't be reciprocating that respect, you don't even know me. I don't want your respect on the grounds that I am a RHM. If I were to gain your respect I'd want it because you thought I was good at being a RHM or that I made smart decisions or my opinions were valid - in fact any grounds that you choose to judge people but not solely because I'm a RHM.

There are often exceptions to any rule, in this instance I belive that to be the case. If a friend of yours whom you hold with high regard is given auth and that friend then appoints a RHM who you don't know. Without knowing that person, you might hold a certain amount of respect for them because of the respect you have for their leader and his decision making.

This is the same for rank, a Mademan (a position that should hold respect) in one family can be very different from a Mademan in another. If a leader promotes you to Mademan because they can, they would find themselves falling in the Fucktard catagory. If they promote you because you are someone that they believes upholds the values that you yourself live by, then they are deserving of respect but only if you respect the leader.

As a general rule of thumb, I don't respect anyone until they have given me reason to. I will say that I respect a number of people in this world, some I know and would class as friends, some I don't know but have listened to them speak and valued their thoughts.