I agree.  It is important that everyone is given the right to express themselves.

As written in The Friends of Voltaire, "I [may] disapprove of what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

One thing that I would ask of people new to the streets, though, is that you are sure to put some serious thought into what you have to say before you say it.  As many many others have said, reading the same old unoriginal crap not only takes its toll on one's psyche, but it can drown out the truly quality contributions.

Lucretia listens to the discussion a bit and decides she has something to add to it, from the perspective of a godmother. I've got to say, I politely disagree with a few things that have been said thus far. For example, this:

Alexander... if a Godfather/Godmother or leader disrespects someone of low rank, then they should have a good reason for it.

In a word, why?

More lengthily, on the rare occasion I decide to abuse some random thug (most of the time I'm simply going to just ignore a distasteful nobody, after all) you can rest assured that I, by definition, have a good reason for it. "It got my rocks off" is plenty good reason for a Godmother to do such a thing. And if it didn't get my rocks off, I'd not be doing it. That I do not run around verbally assaulting all the new arrivals to these shores is testament to my character, not a statement of what "should" be. What should be is that if I were to do that, the new arrivals would say "thank you for the attention ma'am. Perhaps you have an errand I can run, while we are speaking?" in due deference to my rank and standing in the community. That would be the case no matter how abusive I may have been towards them. I am a godmother. I deserve and demand respect, and don't need to show it to get it. This is not a bad thing, this is a good thing. It ensures everyone takes on their proper role in this thing of ours.

Obviously things change a bit when someone has a sponsor to vouch for them. It's always pragmatic for someone like me not to offend ranking mafiosi in other cities by verbally assaulting the people that work for them. So in due deference to other power brokers, it's best to avoid that sort of thing. But that is courtesy (as opposed to respect) not because it "should" be that way but instead because I get along nicely with the other leaders and don't want that to change for a stupid reason like being too blunt with someone.

Alexander... how can we stand here and demand respect and yet lack to show it until someone earns his button. Now that goes againts what i believe in. Respect is always first in line and i believe it goes both ways. When someone earns his button he deserves your undevided attention... like i said before, i would stop everything i am doing if this man came to me with a certain issue and help him out. If he has'nt earned his button, than i would ask him to go to one of the family's trustee's, not me. But as for respect... every members deserves it!

I could not disagree more. Respect flows from those below to those above. Those below smile and take whatever they get from those above. To have things any other way would be to deny the hierarchical structure that makes what we do organized crime rather than some petty street gang vandalizing the post office and considering each other "equal partners" while they do it. This thing of ours runs smoothly not because we share the pot evenly, eat s'mores around a campfire, and snuggle each other to sleep at night but rather because the people on bottom always know their place and follow the orders of the people on top. Sometimes that means those on top don't ask nicely. Tough break; you still have to listen to them. They earned the right to talk to you like that.

Godmother Lucretia_Borgia, i am truly honored to hear your thoughs on this issue. Maybe i have been a little too extreme here. I can't say that i would give a low rank the same amount of respect than a high rank, considering they were both respectful individuals. That would also got againts my beliefs. What i am saying is that a low rank who is respectful to me will certainly receive the same treatment. I can also add that none of my bloodline has ever lacked respects towards a Godmother/Godfather or any other leader for that matter. I cant say that they always agreed with them, but they were always respectful. And when i said... a Godmother/Godfather lacks respect, they better have a good reason... i mean that from what i have witnessed, they always did. It did'nt sound right i know, but i meant that a Godmother/Godfather always have a good reason. And i truly believe, that they always do have good reason for lacking respect. But i am sure, if it was to happen out here in the streets, i would probably have a good idea as to why this lack of respect was call upon. If not, i would'nt question it. After all, i would never question a Godmother/Godfather's decision. That is not my place.

Maybe i went to the extremes with my speach, but sometimes the lack of respect is not justified. And that is my issue on this matter. If someone is respectful and had done nothing to upset anyone but just came out here and spoken with descency, i dont see why we should disrespect him or her. I hope i did'nt upset anyone with this issue of mine, it was not my intention. My intention is to only debate on what is right and wrong here.

I would also like to add... thankyou Godmother Lucretia_Borgia, your thoughs on this sure has shed a little light on my issue here. You were clear as water and i will surely change my views when i see a leader speak. Seems like maybe i put myself in the place of the other guy here, without thinking of this little thing of ours. You are right, it is our way of doing things, and of course they take what they are given. Again i am quite honored to have received such a deeply though response on your part. I am now sure that tomorrow, i will wake up a better man.

To answer the intial question of "What are streets for?", they are for The Gwarble Barble employees to spy on their prey and pick up on the errors the mafiosi make, which is then reflected in the next edition (hopefully). I would have liked to have said unsuspecting prey there but apparently people have been picking up on The Gwarble's interest of insulting people and announcing their errors in hopes that the Gwarble won't slander them and I'm sure many more of you have been looking over your shoulder to ensure that small, but charming individual Gwarble is not behind you with a pen and paper.

Anyways, in reply to yourself sneakyrat...

I think what you're saying is that it's not right for people to talk disrespectfully to those who are fresh off the boat, but the thing is, it really is. If someone who is fresh off the boat comes to the streets in a good and well mannered nature then honestly, so what? It doesn't mean I can't talk to them how I like. You talk about justification but if the button men want to talk down to these nobodies then that's their business. They've earned the right to piss on these thugs, just the same as they were probably pissed on when they first entered the life of crime. It might not be pretty but this lifestyle seldom is. In short they have to deal with it. I'm sure they'll face much worse at some point in their lives if they can get past this initial slating in the streets, if their feelings have been hurt so badly by the disrespect shown then maybe they should tell FlyingPig, I hear he's very understanding on issues like this.

Achilles, i am not here to change the high ranks ways, i am here to understand why they are bashing on a respectful mans head. And for what i hear, they do it because... they want to. Okay, if that is their choice i am surely not the guy that has the will or power to change that. Yes, i dont have the will... because, i dont want to. If i am going to bash on a guys head it is because he damn well deserved it. I am not here to judge anyone and i will always have the same respect for the high ranks as before. As for the Gwarble, the streets were there way before Gwarble was... and i dont think the streets were waiting on Gwarble to be useful.

Between you and me, i can hardly wait to read the next issue. Like i said before, i like to be popular. And when i hear somebody say, well if you dont like it than dont read it. Now, i find that very amusing. I can easily reply, if you dont like what i have to say than dont listen to it. But that would be quite odd, dont you think?

And to go back to the main subject here... like i said, whoever does'nt agree with me is always intitle of sharing his thoughs. I am open minded enough to listen.

That... sir, is what our streets are actualy for!

Because they want to, because they can, either will suffice. Your kind heartedness towards the people fresh off the boat is not echoed by everyone else, whether someone deserves (or not) a "bashing on the head" as you put it, is irrelevant. Button men have earned the right to talk down to these nobodies and so they can do just that.

Unfortunately you are sadly misinformed bebz, the streets were always waiting for The Gwarble to pop up in order for them to be useful. I thought this was common knowledge. However I agree I will be looking forward to the next edition, especially if it features myself for I feel it wouldn't be worth reading otherwise.

Achilles... i dont see how "bashing on a guys head" or whatever term you would choose to call it actualy is useful in this thing of ours unless he damn well deserved it. That i cannot change my ways, what i do agree on changing is the way i speak out my mind in order to make myself more clearly. I will never judge someone for what he says to a civilian if he or she is a button man. If you think that it will gain yourself more respect from others that is you opinion, not mine. Plainly speaking, i dont see the reason for it... does it help us... i am not entirely sure. But you have earned your button, therefore i would never ask for the explanation. That is not my place anyhow. But for something that is disrespectful, it is called for, then i will be the first to throw punches. And for this last, i am sure everybody here agree's.

Realistically, these harsh methods really do work in helping shape a human into a model mobster. The greatest teacher of human beings is pain and humiliation. Simply pain. No one enjoys great amounts of pain (unless you dig that kind of thing). After experiencing great pain any intelligent person would do anything in their power to ensure they never feel that again.

You are too kindhearted sneakyrat. Not saying that your kind are not welcome and a useful resource, but simply letting the fresh mobsters make a mockery of the streets is never going to fly while people have the power to keep order. With the public bashing they get they may mature and develop into decent street speakers over time.

You are too kindhearted sneakyrat. Not saying that your kind are not welcome and a useful resource, but simply letting the fresh mobsters make a mockery of the streets is never going to fly while people have the power to keep order. With the public bashing they get they may mature and develop into decent street speakers over time.

When did i ever say i was going to let a fresh mobster make a mockery of the streets? Listen to my original speach before making such statements. The mockerers will always be bashed by me, here they must absolutely have respect, especially beeing a low rank!

I'm glad someone mentioned my name, it had been awhile since I was brought up in a discussion I had nothing to do with.

Still, now that this small but charming individual has paid attention to this, he may as well throw something into the pot. The first being that obviously the Streets have been waiting for me. They need me. They need the Barble. They beg for our throbbing articles and their cobbles yearn for more after every issue. We might even have to bring the Tribune out of retirement to sate them, they need us so bad.

Anyway, to the topic and away from me (permission to ignore the rest of this), it took awhile for Alexander to correctly point out that respect isn't something you're born with. A thug has no entitlement to respect, this isn't a church and we aren't all someone's flock looking out for our fellow brothers and sisters. Here, respect is earned through lots of hard work over a long period of time. Money goes upwards, shit flows downwards. That is how it works in our thing and as the esteemed Godmother of Las Vegas has already clarified, the same can be said for respect due to our structure.

I like to draw on this example a lot because it gives a beautiful demonstration of what is in real terms: http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/62653/page2.

If you can't be bothered, basically the majority of people spoke out against TM and his business proposal. Then Godfather of New York ThomasRourke decided that he wasn't happy with the majority of people speaking out against TM's business proposal and demanded a public apology from anyone who had done so. Cue lots of bent knees and apologies.

This is the most basic lesson of the Mafia; power. We don't do things because we want to feel warm and fuzzy inside or because deep down we're all great human beings - things are done because someone with power makes them get done. The only reason required for any act is the power to do it. There is no justice here only business. Applying this to our current situation, what power decides that Thugs are worth of respect? None. What power decides that Godfathers are worthy of respect? There you go.

I have no doubt if the Families felt it would be great if we all held hands and sang kumbaya with the Thugs, then we would quickly see people braiding each other's hair in the streets. Thankfully however they have respect for the traditions of our thing and upholding them. One such tradition being our hierarchical structure.

~G~warble.

Are you asking me what the streets are for?  That's a lot of pressure to put on somebody like me.  I don't know if I have a good answer.  But I'll try.

The streets are for many things.  They are for driving up and down.  Sometimes for walking.  They are for vending, and parades, and marching.  They are for trash to be piled high, and sometimes they are for rats to scamper to and fro. 

Occasionally, they are for a spirited debate.  And frankly, I don't care who starts the debate.  Rank doesn't much matter.  I'm more interested in the topic of the debate and whether the speaker has anything interesting to say. 

That being said - because I enjoy and/or participate in a debate doesn't mean I have to respect the original speaker.  But I will speak to them with respect.  I hope people around here can understand the difference. 

On the other hand, if some idiot (again - rank doesn't particularly matter to me) comes out here and spews some ridiculous crap, then I would certainly choose not to reply in a respectful manner. 

Still, now that this small but charming individual has paid attention to this, he may as well throw something into the pot.

Interesting remark there Gwarble, i dont consider myself small and i am surprised that a person of your rank would be bold enough to say it. You may be a good writer, but you seriously need more guidance before coming out here and talk directly to a Consigliere, i am everything but small. This only inforces my case about respect. But i like your response though, bringing up the past always entertains me. It goes without saying, if a Godfather\Godmother comes out in the streets and speaks out, we damn well be better listening and comply to any demands from their part.

And also, i must add that of course when i am talking about respect. It is clear that i mean respect in speach only. Even a blind man could see this a mile away. It is not like i am coming over for supper or anything like that. And heart has nothing to do with it, i am not going to give him shelter because he is cold. I am just going to reply respectfuly if he is respectful towards me... that is all. Nothing more... i hope i am clear on this!

As I already pointed out to you, there is a difference between respect out of necessity for a rank, and respecting a man for his efforts, the way he carries himself, and so on. You appear to be talking about the latter. The former is mandatory - if you prefer a long life - and the other is far from it but not unheard of. This is your problem:

Respect the fresh off the boaters! If they show respect they deserve it as much as any other highly ranked that is respectful.

Just because they respect me doesn't mean they deserve respect. They may want it, but they don't command it. On the flip, they might think I'm a twat, but they won't disrespect me...if they're smart. The only way you can guarantee respect is by your rank or status in cosa nostra. Anything beyond that scenario is subjective and you will never see a blanket approach to it. Rightfully so.

I feel I can speak with some authority on this matter. True, I'm not a made guy but ultimately this is secondary to the fact I am Iota's Right Hand Man; and thus when Iota is not present I am the voice of the Godfather, as is my remit. That being said, I thought I'd offer you delightful cuties my thoughts on this.

"Respect the fresh off the boaters! If they show respect they deserve it as much as any other highly ranked that is respectful"

Really? I mean, really? Lots of people show me respect, that doesn't stop me hating their sycophantic fucking faces. I respect someone because they deserve to be respected. I don't respect people because they respect me, so I feel the favour should be returned.
Neither do I respect people because I think 'hey, if I show him
respect, maybe he'll show me respect too!'

As highlighted by other elegant gentlemen here, I respect people for two reasons. The rank or the man. That is to say, if they are big enough to hurt poor Freddie if I do not respect them, then I will. If they impress me, then I will respect them. Respect is not reciprocal. It is not a birthright. It is not a given.

"Alexander... how can we stand here and demand respect and yet lack to

show it until someone earns his button. Now that goes againts what i

believe in."

Ok, so I'm not Alexander. But really? I mean, really? I'm pretty much going to repeat what I said earlier. Just because people will respect me, darling, it doesn't mean I'm going to be nice to them and not make crude comments about what a lovely physique their father has. Whether they respect me out of genuine respect or because I demand it is irrelevant. It boils down to the fact that if someone can demand respect, they have the clout (either by way of rank, status or power) to back that demand up. Therefore, they also have the clout to pick who they respect in return.

If you do not comprehend this. If this 'goes against what you believe in', then you are in the wrong business, sweety. Shit flows downhill, money and respect flow uphill. That is one of the most basic tenets of our thing, darling, and

as a Left Hand Man - you should understand that.

"Alexander... if a Godfather/Godmother or leader disrespects someone of low rank, then they should have a good reason for it."

Here we go again, you might as well call me Alex rather than Freddie, but hey ho! Really thought? I mean really? Another central tenent, and one that should be realised by everyone - let alone high ranking members of a crew's heirarchy. Godfathers do not need good reasons to appease the masses. They answer only to their peers - other Godfathers, and even then in relevant matters.

If, for example, my old friend Iota decided to go and insult a civilian, and then bludgeon her to death with a wrench because her perfume was cloying, no one would bat an eyelid (unless unwanted attention from the law arose). You know why? Because it doesn't affect business. It doesn't matter, sweety. At least, it doesn't matter to those who are concerned with profit and well versed in the traditions of our thing.

The only people it does matter to are those who are so misguided
that they  believe our thing is a communist arrangement where everyone
is equal.

And that, darlings, is my cue to leave. Hey hey heeeyyyy!

With that, Freddie pulls his ermine cloak around his beared

chest, tips his ostentatious crown to those present and struts away

with the grace of a swan and the sex appeal of a panther.

Mercury... now i understand that you are RHM. But... you are still earner. There is something you have to learn about respect before coming out here in the streets. Let's make the difference now, i am talking about respect in speach only. Not the ultimate respect all button men are acquired to receive from the low ranks. Those are two different things. But before calling me darling or sweety... you better earn your button and rank up fast. Because i am Consigliere... and i am LHM... maybe not RHM but still a consigliere. I respect you for your position, but you should at least respect me for my rank. From what i am hearing, all everyone understand is that i would respect anybody... that is not the case. A scumbag like that Bomberman character, deserves to be spit upon. Hell, i spit on his grave everytime i walk by it. Coming out here and acting like a stupid fool does'nt gain respect. Thinking the guy is god because he caused people to react and had no one to back up his statements... i call that a fuckin morron. The only thing i regret is that i had'nt had to change to send his sorry ass to where he is now. That would of made my day i must say.

From where i stand, you demand respect for your position? Well i demand respect from my rank! A rank is a rank, lets not forget this. It absolutely must be respected, is'nt that what we all stand for? What we all fight for? To become a button man you have to work damn hard, in my book anyhow. And a lot of people knows that each and every member of my bloodline has worked his ass off in order to gain that level. And deserves to be respected for it. Because many leaders known today has had a bloodline that have worked along with mine, if you ask them they would agree i am sure.

Now i am going to take my own words and explain them to you...

"Respect the fresh off the boaters! If they show respect they deserve it as much as any other highly ranked that is respectful"

Am i saying that you should respect everyone here? I dont think so. And like i tend to have to repeat it, respect in speach... not the other thing you are referring too. The kind of respect we earn for our hard work, that is another form of respect entirely different. I am talking about a guy who comes out here and politely asks a questions. I dont think telling him... hey, you retard, get out of our streets... is the best way. If the guy is associated... if i dont feel like talking, i can simply say, go to your leader. But that is my way, my opinion. And, i believe i have earned the right to treat any low rank, the way i like. I am not here to judge, just debate on our ways.

"Alexander... if a Godfather/Godmother or leader disrespects someone of low rank, then they should have a good reason for it."

Now this one... that is a hard pill to swallow is'nt it? Well, did i ever say that the Godfather/Godmother are required to give a good reason for it. Hell... no! I would never make such statements... they a required to do what they want to do. They are the ultimate power and i will take what they want to give me, with a big smile and open arms. But... i am sure... absolutely certain... that every action they make, they have good reason to. I would never question it either.

Mercury... now dont get me wrong here. You can twist my words if you wish. And as RHM of Godfather Iota, i would always treat you as i would treat a button man. But you must also agree that a high rank still deserves a certain amount of respect. That i do deserve a certain amount of respect! Standing by my beliefs does'nt make me less of a man. My manhood is justified by the fact that i do stand by my beliefs. But dont go on thinking that i am a Mr. nice guy... that... i am not.

After sneakyrat listened to his trustee bodyguard, they are so useful. He decides to correct himself...

For the statement that i referred to Gwarble when i said he should seek guidance before calling me small... he did'nt mention it but he was referring to what Achilles have said about him. Not a actual comment maid towards me. So i will disregard that comment Gwarble.

sneakyrat winks at Gwarble!

Sneakyrat, Mercury may be an earner, but he is also RHM to a godfather and speaks with as much authority as Iota. He also has no need to learn anything about respect, being appointed RHM to a godfather alone shows he knows more than the average joe. As for telling him to earn his button and rank up fast? That in itself is slightly disrespectful, for someone who talks about being shown respect your lacking it here.

Rank should be respected but at the same time, the rank will always been the same, the person will not be. Just because a rank has been reached, does not mean that the person is going to be shown respect for who they are.

Your right you do deserve a certain amount of respect and I have already agreed with your initial statement. But for the love of god man, talking to a RHM of a godfather that way when your a LHM. Not your finest move.

Maybe not my finest move Dante_Balboni... but i do respect his position and what he stands for. But rank has to have a certain important. Or else what is the use of rank? I agree though, i went too far about saying he should earn something... so i apologize for this Mercury.
You have earned your Godfather's trust, that is clear. What else is there to earn? Nothing. So i was in error there, i truly believe it. I hope you accept my apology, for it is a honest one!

It is funny isn't it.

Here you are preaching about giving people respect, regardless of rank and there is me, being completely respectful and knowledgable, yet you could barely restrain yourself from trying to belittle me the first opportunity you perceived presented itself. The fact that you were blatantly wrong in that perception is kind of by the by.

Whilst we are throwing out helpful tips though, something you should probably take guidance on is what it means when someone drops from the lofty heights of a family Consigliere, back to street level, with one hundred armed bodyguards making sure nothing happens to him. Why could that possibly be?

I'll leave you to mull that over, whilst I go and snatch a few purses.

~G~warble.